Been scrolling through Twitter, and it's sickening as anything reading the Premier League clubs putting fans last and joining a European Super League. And frankly, had we been a part of it (which is a stretch of unimaginable proportions) I think I would've stopped supporting the club as an attending fan, as there would be literally no chance I could pay a season ticket at over £2000 or however much they'll end up costing...

I can confirm that ICT are NOT one of the 12 European clubs who have signed up for this. I’m sure many of our fans will appreciate this clarification. 😉
 

 

How can we persuade them to invite the Old Firm?

22 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

How can we persuade them to invite the Old Firm?

That's the same thing I thought but listening to the radio the six teams will still be playing in the English Premier League 

Over the last three decades or so the clubs at the very top of the financial pyramid, almost all now owned or controlled by middle eastern, American, Asian or Russian billionaires with no knowledge of or interest in the history or sporting integrity of the game but entirely driven by a combination of naked greed and egotism, have been increasingly divorced from the rest of the game and the very great majority of fans including those who support their own clubs.

However, this latest proposal takes naked greed and self interest to a level only previously demonstrated by David Cameron and the Kardashians.

More seriously though, there is probably little that can be done to prevent these selfish b@stards from forming their own clique.

However, the rest of the footballing community needs to unite In making sure that these teams can no longer take part in any domestic tournaments in any nation in the World and Fifa and UEFA need to make it abundantly clear that players contracted to any breakaway club will not be eligible to be selected for International football for as long as they are so contracted and ideally for two years thereafter.

Further, all decent fans of the 'elite' should consider very carefully whether to give to continue to give their hard earned cash to the oil magnates and oligarchs or whether to support their local lower league club instead.

Finally, should the project ultimately fail and any of the participating clubs wish to return to their domestic set ups they should only be permitted to do so at the very foot of the relevant domestic pyramid and on the payment of a substantial financial bond to the domestic association.

Let the greedy go if they wish but let's see how they fare without the support of the many layers from grassroots football up who have always, one way or another  propped up and supported the top.

It sounds horrific.  But it will only work for these clubs if they can monopolise the TV market and in that sense it is we, the fans, who have the power.  We can chose to watch or not.  

As it stands, UEFA position is that players associated with this scheme would be banned from playing in the Euros.  One wonders how England captain Harry Kane thinks about it.  Was he even asked for an opinion I wonder.  If the best players in the world are prevented from playing for their country, then the clubs involved in the breakaway will no longer be able to attract any but the most money grabbing of players.  Without the best players, these teams will not be the best teams so why would people want to watch them rather than the likes of Bayern Munich and PSG?

Time will tell whether these proposals are taken further or whether they have been put forward to try to force some change to the current system which would give the top clubs more exposure than they already get.  For instance, the creation of a European super league as part of a European wide pyramid structure.

A word of warning for fans of ICT who naively believe that this will have no effect on our club.

If the likes of Real Madrid, Milan and Manchester United suddenly have their income increased by 40% they will then be in a position to contemplate signing players of the calibre of Dave Carson, Daniel McKay and Mark Riders and then where would we be !

Would it be fair or even legal to apply sanctions against players who are simply fulfilling a contractual obligation to play for their employer?

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

Would it be fair or even legal to apply sanctions against players who are simply fulfilling a contractual obligation to play for their employer?

I don't see that being a significant issue.

The players are contracted to their clubs who will remain obliged to fulfill these contracts even if the teams are reduced to playing midweek football in one competition only.

There is no legal obligation on national associations to select any player for international football.

I suspect that this is a negotiating ploy to force the authorities to give the already wealthy and privileged an even larger slice of the cake.

I hope that the authorities appreciate that the existing, still largely merit based  system has the backing of the very vast majority of fans and is thus, in the long run, is still holding the aces.

3 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

As it stands, UEFA position is that players associated with this scheme would be banned from playing in the Euros.  One wonders how England captain Harry Kane thinks about it.  Was he even asked for an opinion I wonder.  If the best players in the world are prevented from playing for their country, then the clubs involved in the breakaway will no longer be able to attract any but the most money grabbing of players.  Without the best players, these teams will not be the best teams so why would people want to watch them rather than the likes of Bayern Munich and PSG?

I’m not sure how committed many top players are to international football. They earn their big pay in club football and most are motivated by that more than helping their country.

We see many retiring from international football to focus on their club careers.

Would this be up and running in time to prevent them playing at the Euros? That statement may be posturing by UEFA and it is more likely an issue for the next World Cup, but as it is in Qatar, I suspect many would happily miss it rather than have to play in the conditions they will face.

I agree with the sentiments above. This is all about greed rather than anything to enhance the game in any way. 

3 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

A word of warning for fans of ICT who naively believe that this will have no effect on our club.

If the likes of Real Madrid, Milan and Manchester United suddenly have their income increased by 40% they will then be in a position to contemplate signing players of the calibre of Dave Carson, Daniel McKay and Mark Riders and then where would we be !

One Rider short of a g g !

 

On 3/23/2021 at 11:19 PM, Yngwie said:

We were staggeringly uncreative going forward.

But hey, we are through to the next round and, more than that, we actually managed a rare win against a part-time side!

 

I was listening to some interviews with spokespeople for fans groups.

A fascinating schism. Whilst all the traditional European based fans of every club involved, many of whom attend games and have been the lifeblood of the game for decades, utterly condemn the move, the condemnation is not universal amongst all supporters.

The interviews with fans groups in the Middle East, Asia, the Far East and North America could not show a starker contrast. These nouveau fans all seem to regard it as a brilliant idea. It's also revealing to note that, of the participating clubs quoted on the stock market, their share prices have all risen since the news broke.

Further evidence if needed that the greedy owners are perfectly happy to abandon the fans who have supported these clubs through thick and thin and chase the money at whatever moral cost.

We have all got used to the idea of watching games on TV played out in front of empty seats. I suspect that the owners are perfectly happy for that time remain the case as long as fans in Shanghai, Dubai, Los Angeles and Mumbai continue to snap up the merchandise and watch remotely as they appear content to do.

What a relief. Panic over. I knew that nobody in their right minds would want to replace our 150 year old traditions with a closed shop, US style, franchise system.

It turns out it was just a typographical error in the press release.

These wealthy individuals simply want to take advantage of lockdown easing by meeting regularly each Wednesday for an evening meal at some of the finest and most exclusive restaurants in the continent.

What they intended to announce was the establishment of the European Supper League.

I thought we, in Scotish football had invented & run the closed shop league set up for a hundred years or so...

Have the ESL thought about the financial implications of infringing our copyright??😋

'They' wanted more money,  televised games three nights a week...A breakaway league.

Fans up in arms, the death of the game etc.

'They' got it. The premier league. It is the norm now. 

'They' wanted more money in Europe, televised games twice a week,eventually non champions in the tournament.

Fans up in arms,death of the European Cup etc etc.

'They' got it. Champions League evolved over several revisions to make more money for the club's and UEFA.

UEFA are at it again, more games in CL , less money for biggest clubs...

As soon as the game went down the road of big money it was just a matter of time, the natural progression is for it to become more global and it is those clubs, foreign owned with large worldwide appeal who are driving this as it is they who gain more from this than they will lose from any domestic losses. And the money men know this.

If you didn't know where the power really lay in football, then it is clear for all to see now.

Chelsea withdrawing from the European Super League.

I would be very surprised now if the rest of the English clubs at least didn't follow suit.

Manchester City now made a similar announcement.

The edifice is crumbling already. That's what can happen when you build a glittering tower with no foundations.

No surprises that the plastic clubs have folded first, money isn't an option for them with their billionaire ownership, they were just following the crowd, not wanting to be left out.

12 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

The interviews with fans groups in the Middle East, Asia, the Far East and North America could not show a starker contrast. These nouveau fans all seem to regard it as a brilliant idea. 

Can't speak for other regions, but fans in North America are not by and large 'nouveau'. Thats a pretty big generalisation for a sport that is growing quickly (exponentially even) in this region and regularly attracts 30,000+ in-person fans to about 20 of the 27 teams in the league. These are average gates (pre-COVID of course). 

Dont get me wrong, some fans are 'nouveau', never been to a ground in their lives, and jump on the big team bandwagon, just like some are in the UK, but there is a long history of support for many European clubs in North America, primarily from the diaspora but it spreads organically once that support is established. There is also a large grass roots supporter base who are not justfair weather fans and are, despite some opinions to the contrary, quite knowledgeable about football. I personally know a huge number of TFC supporters that I have mingled with over the years as part of our supporters' group and we can come up with literally dozens of teams that are represented in our group due to heritage, history, or, like me, migration. We are not lesser supporters due to distance .. and even the one or two Man City fans I know were also fans of that team before they had money and to an extent think that ruined their club.  

 

Quote

Dubai, Los Angeles and Mumbai continue to snap up the merchandise and watch remotely as they appear content to do.

LA Galaxy are a bit showy in that respect, signing the Beckhams and others of that ilk but take a wee look at the grittier Los Angeles FC and their setup. Both these clubs get a lot of supporters through the gates, and I would guess that for every MUFC or Chelsea shirt you saw, you would see dozens of LAG or LAFC shirts. Drive a few hours North to Portland or Seattle and the level of grass roots support in that region is eye-opening. The same at TFC - I have seen Celtic, Rangers, Man U, Man City, Caley Thistle (not being worn by me), Bayern, PSG, Barca and Real of course ... but the stadium itself is a sea of TFC red in comparison to these pockets of other teams. Snapping up merchandise and watching remotely are two of the few ways the international diaspora for any club can contribute. 

 

9 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

What a relief. Panic over. I knew that nobody in their right minds would want to replace our 150-year-old traditions with a closed shop, US style, franchise system.

The US Major League Soccer system actually works well. Yes, they decide who is getting in rather than having promotion and relegation, but they learned from their mistakes in the past when it burned brightly for a few years with Best, Pele et all, and then fizzled out. The model now is financial responsibility, fixed budgets, and also other items that dictate that teams must have academies and valid infrastructure before getting in. As a result of these requirements, Toronto FC just signed their 26th Academy player to the first team this week, and that's 26 in about 10 years as it took a few to get things up and running ... and these are decent players not journeymen.  There is currently a lot of talk around a 16-year-old TFC player called Jahkeele Marshall-Rutty going to Europe just like Alphonso Davies went from the Vancouver Academy to Bayern so the MLS invitation approach where teams have to prove they have the resources to get in works and assists in league and player development ... Contrast that to the SFA who have for decades tried to find ways to exclude teams from outside the central belt and despite having to let us and County in, they continue to try and keep the likes of Brora and Kelty out, teams that could perhaps contribute and maybe rise through the leagues and in future maybe develop players, which the perennial bottom dwellers, with all due respect, do not..... At least MLS is transparent in its setup which is not the case with the current system in Scotland. 

 

9 hours ago, Satan said:

I thought we, in Scottish football had invented & run the closed shop league set up for a hundred years or so...

Indeed 🙂

 

 

Incidentally - I stopped watching Champions League on TV years ago. If it's on and I catch it great, but I am not setting my calendar to watch it like I do for TFC games or for ICT games. It lost value to me when it stopped being a tournament of champions from each country and became a tournament of rich clubs that were grudgingly forced to let champions from other countries in but made them jump through so many hoops in pre-qualifying rounds that most fell by the wayside and never reached far enough to play the 5th place team from last year's EPL who went straight into the group stages.  The romance of the cup, the idea that an undergo can rise to the top is all but gone. 

On 4/20/2021 at 8:52 PM, Scotty said:

Contrast that to the SFA who have for decades tried to find ways to exclude teams from outside the central belt and despite having to let us and County in, they continue to try and keep the likes of Brora and Kelty out, teams that could perhaps contribute and maybe rise through the leagues and in future maybe develop players, which the perennial bottom dwellers, with all due respect, do not.....

Aww don't go all Bannerman on us now 😂

Here's my take on it, bearing in mind I'm based in the "Central Belt" but actively petitioned for Caley to get a place, back in the day.

There's no conspiracy by the SFA. The SFA are the clubs. Football clubs vote selfishly. It's happening right now in the Pyramid below the SLFL as all the ex-Junior clubs moan about extra travel. So if I'm the treasurer of Albion Rovers I'm going to vote Gala Fairydean rather than Deveronvale, based on the cost of buses, and getting time off work, and of course the well known fact that such fixtures always happen on a wet Tuesday night in January 😉

Inverness Thistle might have squeaked in, in 1974. I believe the vote was something like 19-18. But the Highland vote was split 3 ways while only 2 Lowland clubs applied. So maybe the Highland clubs should have "voted tactically" and agreed to put their weight behind one club.

In 1994, you say that 'they' (the SFL btw, not the SFA) 'had to let us in'. But the vote was overwhelming. Mainly because the big clubs didn't care who got in, but could see that Inverness deserved a club in the league, as the only conurbation in the Highlands ( Dingwall, not so much. Should have been Elgin). TBF, there aren't many/any communities in the Highlands much bigger than the likes of Brechin or Cowdenbeath, who are often held up as examples of 'deadwood'.

Leagues form in populous areas and spread outwards. That's why the HL was mainly Inverness, Ross and Moray. To their shame they 'found ways to exclude' Brora till 1962, Wick till 1994, Fort till 1985 and Cove till 1986 😇

To mention Kelty is a bit of a contradiction as they are in effect a "Central Belt" club.

After all the complaints about bias, it's maybe worth saying 'be careful what you wish for'. Pre-1994, the HL was very strong and we always did well in the Cup, and got huge crowds even for the likes of Albion Rovers, so we had the excuse that we could do better if only we were allowed in. Looking back, the HL is now awful, but our SPFL clubs now get national exposure on TV, so it was a trade-off - some people might think it wasn't worth it.

One last point - the Highlands has about 1/7 of the Scottish population. But at Tier 5, it has 17 clubs while the south has only 16. From next season, it looks like the HL is finally opening up places to competition, but up till now it has operated like some kind of gentleman's club.

Edited May 8, 20215 yr by TheMantis