Beyond the pale...

 

With most fans patience having been tested to the limit, we head into the first of two difficult away games starting at Tannadice on Saturday to be followed the week after by a visit to Firhill. Zero points from these two fixtures is a distinct possibility given our current predicament and the repercussions of that are horrendous. The only thing in our favour is that both are away fixtures as our home form has been abysmal. Clutching at straws, all three previous games this season have been close encounters.

And now for the wake up call. ONLY FIVE GAMES LEFT TO SAVE OUR SEASON AFTER THESE TWO AWAY GAMES.

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Match/Ticket/Supporters Bus Info

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Venue H2H v Arabs

Pld

Won

Drn

Lst

For

Agst

+ / -

Home	35	10	10	15	35	45	-10
Away	29	7	11	11	37	43	-6
Neutral	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Total	64	17	21	26	72	88	-16

United have always held the Indian sign over us. More recently, it's ten games since we beat them. That was a televised Scottish Cup game in 2019 when Joe Chalmers curled in a beauty to give us an early lead before Nicky Clark levelled from the spot. However, Aaron Doran scored a deserved winner after 92 minutes to send us off to Hampden for a semi-final date with the Jambos. (That ended in a 3-0 defeat for the Caley Jags)

Last 10 Competitive Meetings v Dundee United

0 - 1 (H)

1 - 1 (A)

0 - 1 (H)

1 - 2 (A)

0 - 3 (H)

1 - 4 (A)

0 - 3 (A)

0 - 1 (H)

0 - 2 (H)

2 - 1 (A)

Last time out

We slumped badly once again at home. In fact our last two matches were home games against the only two teams we have beaten in the Championship this season. Airdrie was played out as a scoreless draw. Against Ayr we looked well off the pace and were fortunate to go in level at the break when we were gifted an unlikely penalty on the stroke of half time. That squared the game after Stanger had given Ayr the lead with only five minutes gone. Ayr took all three points when Bryden scored on the hour with the home defence floundering. We didn't lack effort, but we were sadly lacking in quality and managerial direction at a stage in the season when we need it most. Last Five: D D W D L 

United faltered badly a week after thrashing Arbroath 4-0. On the telly last Friday they went down 3-1 to a resurgent Dunfermline who were all over them like a rash at East End Park. All United had to show for their effort was a late consolation goal, and that was an og from Benedictus. Oh well, that shows that they can be got at although you have to attack in the first place to make something happen. You have to be in it to win it as they say.

Dundee United manager Jim Goodwin said this on BBC Sport after last weeks defeat: "We didn't start the game well enough, it's as simple as that. The first 45 minutes is one of our worst performances, there's no doubt about it. We didn't offer anything going forward. "We didn't carry a threat at all in the final third and we weren't at the races in the first half. Dunfermline looked as if they were a little bit more energetic than us, picking up a lot of second balls. I can have no arguments about the result." Last Five: L D W W L 

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	F	A	Pts
Airdrie in Challenge Cup final on Sunday - that makes Raith Rovers idle as well.
1.	Dundee Utd	29	17	7	5	56	20	58
2.	Raith Rovers	29	17	7	5	49	36	58
3.	Partick Thistle	29	11	10	8	55	49	43
4.	Airdrieonians	28	11	6	11	33	32	39
5.	Morton	28	10	7	11	35	33	37
6.	Dunfermline	29	9	8	12	33	39	35
7.	Ayr United	28	10	5	13	40	51	35
8.	Queens Park	29	8	9	12	41	47	33
9.	Inverness CT	29	7	10	12	33	34	31
10.	Arbroath	28	6	5	17	30	64	23

Championship games on Saturday 23rd March

1.    Arbroath v Partick Thistle
2. Ayr United v Queen's Park
3. Dundee Utd v Inverness CT   
4.  G Morton v Dunfermline

 

Latest Team News

Inverness' injury problems are no better. Still a whole team of players missing or carrying knocks.

Here's Dunc ahead of the Arab's game. Nathan Shaw will reluctantly be thrust back into the squad as will Nicola Ujdur and Morgan Boyes.

 

Dundee United have the biggest squad of luxury players available in the Championship yet they are still struggling to break free at the head of the table. Maybe Jim Goodwin should try another job.

United team beaten last week at EEP

Walton

 

Thomson   Gallagher   Holt   McMann

 

Tillson (Middleton 45)   Sibbald   Docherty (Mochrie 64)

 

Greive   Moult (Fotheringham 64)  Watt

 

Subs Not Used: Newman; Cudjoe, Meekison, Grimshaw, Graham, McLelland

 

Our financial position and the future of the club is a situation of the boards making.  Living beyond our means to an extent that they are no longer willing to fund and now trying to hold the city to ransom over planning that will allow them to get that money back.

Crying over fans not turning up in sufficient numbers when they're serving up a **** poor product at an ever increasing price.

All sense of community and belonging stripped from the club, and any who dare protest being shown the door.

If that's the cost of allowing the club to be run the way it is by those currently on the board, I don't want them there.

It might not be so sad if we were seeing even a glimpse of success, but if people such as yourself are happy for the club's soul to be sold in return for a pitiful existence, then have at it.  The longer it continues, the fewer who'll be around to pick up the pieces when needed.

2 hours ago, STFU said:

Our financial position and the future of the club is a situation of the boards making.  Living beyond our means to an extent that they are no longer willing to fund and now trying to hold the city to ransom over planning that will allow them to get that money back.

Crying over fans not turning up in sufficient numbers when they're serving up a **** poor product at an ever increasing price.

All sense of community and belonging stripped from the club, and any who dare protest being shown the door.

If that's the cost of allowing the club to be run the way it is by those currently on the board, I don't want them there.

It might not be so sad if we were seeing even a glimpse of success, but if people such as yourself are happy for the club's soul to be sold in return for a pitiful existence, then have at it.  The longer it continues, the fewer who'll be around to pick up the pieces when needed.

I agree with a certain amount of what you say but there are other criticisms that were also made of the previous board and also of boards before that, and indeed are made by football fans throughout the game. The basic truth is that there is no obligation on anyone to put themselves in the firing line and spend their personal funds running a fundamentally non-viable business using a fundamentally non-viable business model - which is common throughout the game. It’s been clear from the start that there isn’t enough demand, neither actual nor (probably) potential, for a product involving around 30 full time front line employees with several more in backup roles, to make that business anything other than regularly loss making. Over time, something in the ballpark of £10 million of other people’s money has gone into keeping this business going and it always runs into the same problem because of its fundamentally loss making nature. Far too often in football there seems to be this expectation that it’s someone else’s responsibility to fund this loss making process and failure then leads to calls for the removal of those who have used their own money to try and their replacement by others prepared to expose themselves to the same routine.

Thought there was plenty grit and effort on display on Saturday but the quality with the ball was again really poor. On another day the Arabs run out comfortable winners - they wasted a lot of good chances and Ridgers made a few decent saves.

Disappointing to waste another gift goal and not sneak a win. A points a point though and every one of them is important regardless of how they are secured. Still 18 to play for and with Morton and Ayr both struggling to get any rhythm going too, theres still lots of room to escape the play offs yet.

 

Edited March 25, 20242 yr by wilsywilsy

A big Thank You to the Clubs new Supporters Liaison Officer, Scott Young, who chose a very positive way to meet ICT fans in the away end at Dundee.  Before ko he went along the rows of fans, chatting to all and sundry.  I don’t know if everyone knew who he was but I think it was a great gesture and, well done to him.  

Edited March 25, 20242 yr by lizi

Absolutely Lizi. Makes a pleasant change for a member of the board to be seen interacting with the fans. 

Scott has attended the Fans Meetings organised by the Supporters Trust and it is good he is the new SLO and looks to want to make a positive impact in the role.

I enjoyed my first trip up to Dundee and an overnight stop near the Waterfront allowed me to take in V&A Design Museum and Discovery Point before my coach/plane/coach/train/bus replacement service trip back on the Sunday

United's ground is quirky, and there was a good atmosphere in the away end [does chants of 'sack the board' count!] I thought we were competitive given the respective teams league positions. United had the better chances [and twice the number], and we have Ridgers to thank in part for keeping us in the game, but we also created some dangerous moments and I thought we were perhaps on top in the second half before their fluke [?] goal.

Boy do we miss a decent winger though... last year Jay Henderson was impressing, the year before Logan Chalmers added some guile, and the year before Kai Kennedy added energy. Sadly for us Longstaff is injured, and Shaw has [when fit] been playing too deep in my view [presumably as the 'creative' midfielder]. I'd would say Alex Samuel would benefit from someone who put in a cross or two [in addition to Harper/Duffy's forays upfield]

Was a bit surprised to see Pepple paired upfront with Samuel ahead of McKay [was this saving legs, a move to be more physical upfront or a tactical ploy?]. In part it worked because although Pepple doesn't look blessed with a lot a pace, he did occupy the defenders and did well with the cross that set up our goal. And when McKay came on he looked lively. Samuel worked hard all game and he does seem to appreciate the fans as well [he also got warm applause from us when he was subbed], I think he has a key role to play in us staying up.

Ridgers was generally good and  kept us in the game, but I'd say his kicking is average at best, certainly in this game and he was caught way out of his goal from his own kick, although 9 times out of 10 no one would have attempted Moults audacious shot

For me Kerr was the pick of our team and ensured we were competitive in midfield, Anderson next to him was quietly effective and might have scored, and [ignoring the one moment of excessive timewasting which annoyed the Uited fans] I thought Lawal looked good, showing plenty of pace, energy and some skills. Can we keep this midfield together, with Harper overlapping for the remainder of the season?

Given the number of shots that Dundee had, and Ridgers heriocs, you might think our back line was poor, but for me Savage was good as Central CB [a decent signing in my view] and I like Boyes at Left CB, Carragher was decent enough too. A tricky selection headache for big Dunc as Devine is probably best at central CB and Ujdur was by all accounts pretty good when he first joined [we might need all of them on the pitch in a frantic run-in or relegation play-off!]

So a fun filled afternoon, with postives and an enjoyable weekend...at this point of the season a Billy Doods team would suddenly start winning, can we go up a gear? what rabbits can Big Dunc pull out of the hat?  We certainly need to do better at home if we are to stay up, and do better against the mid-table teams. Here's hoping.

Can anyone who was at the game shed any light on who was booked when Moult scored. Was it Carragher and Bollan as shown on ICT twitter account or Boyes as shown everywhere else??? Or maybe all three???

9 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Can anyone who was at the game shed any light on who was booked when Moult scored. Was it Carragher and Bollan as shown on ICT twitter account or Boyes as shown everywhere else??? Or maybe all three???

Caleycalum assures me it was Carragher. 

Our own twitter was adamant it was Carragher and Bollan. BBC has Boyes booked and everyone copied it. 

Cheers OCG. We like to try and get it right on here as it affects the player stats.

On 3/25/2024 at 9:07 AM, Charles Bannerman said:

I agree with a certain amount of what you say but there are other criticisms that were also made of the previous board and also of boards before that, and indeed are made by football fans throughout the game. The basic truth is that there is no obligation on anyone to put themselves in the firing line and spend their personal funds running a fundamentally non-viable business using a fundamentally non-viable business model - which is common throughout the game. It’s been clear from the start that there isn’t enough demand, neither actual nor (probably) potential, for a product involving around 30 full time front line employees with several more in backup roles, to make that business anything other than regularly loss making. Over time, something in the ballpark of £10 million of other people’s money has gone into keeping this business going and it always runs into the same problem because of its fundamentally loss making nature. Far too often in football there seems to be this expectation that it’s someone else’s responsibility to fund this loss making process and failure then leads to calls for the removal of those who have used their own money to try and their replacement by others prepared to expose themselves to the same routine.

You are right that nobody should be under any obligation to put money into a football club and that various people have put in substantial sums over the years.  That Is their choice and until recently those 'investments' have either been written off or converted to shares (to my knowledge).

This is the first time (again to my knowledge) that a Director has put a charge in place to try and ensure they get their money back.  Coincidence that this charge only appeared when the battery scheme looked like it may not happen?

If nobody is willing to put money in to support overspend then we should not be spending more than we make through football operations.

The fact we are failing so miserably in the Championship while maintaining our previous Premiership level of spending is mind boggling and not a sign that those running the club or the team know what they are doing.  Damn right they should face criticism.

1 hour ago, STFU said:

The fact we are failing so miserably in the Championship while maintaining our previous Premiership level of spending

That doesn’t sound right.

On our 20th anniversary, we were on a 'Motherwell' level in the Premiership, with a Scottish Cup win around the corner.

On our 30th anniversary, we are just about on a 'Morton' type level, heading to League 1.

On our 40th anniversary, if we still exist, we'll be on  a 'Montrose' type level in League 1 or 2, on a 'good' day getting a 4 figure crowd, part time local players with only the main stand being used. Local Derby will be with Elgin City. 

2 hours ago, Duke of Inverness said:

On our 20th anniversary, we were on a 'Motherwell' level in the Premiership, with a Scottish Cup win around the corner.

On our 30th anniversary, we are just about on a 'Morton' type level, heading to League 1.

On our 40th anniversary, if we still exist, we'll be on  a 'Montrose' type level in League 1 or 2

Far from unusual.  I can look at the lower three divisions in England, and in each I can see teams that were in the top tier in the recent past.

Not saying that it's good, or acceptable - just that it's not unusual. 

21 hours ago, Yngwie said:

That doesn’t sound right.

True, the £835k of losses from the last set of filed accounts might suggest spending has actually increased.

No, income has dropped. Prize money and gate receipts massively down since the Premiership days.

Certain running costs have increased with energy being one of them, and Big Dunc won’t be cheap, but look at the current squad and compare it with the one we had even in our relegation season. We are certainly not spending more than we did in the Premiership.

2 hours ago, Yngwie said:

No, income has dropped. Prize money and gate receipts massively down since the Premiership days.

Certain running costs have increased with energy being one of them, and Big Dunc won’t be cheap, but look at the current squad and compare it with the one we had even in our relegation season. We are certainly not spending more than we did in the Premiership.

We are very top heavy management wise off park. A few probably on bumper salaries. 

I expect income has dropped too as very few fan activities under the current regime. Hospitality for example is top bracket only with no cheaper offerings 

3 hours ago, Yngwie said:

No, income has dropped. Prize money and gate receipts massively down since the Premiership days.

Certain running costs have increased with energy being one of them, and Big Dunc won’t be cheap, but look at the current squad and compare it with the one we had even in our relegation season. We are certainly not spending more than we did in the Premiership.

One of the problems of being a “Small Company” is that the accounts aren’t very detailed. In fact when they eventually materialised last year, I don’t recollect any statement of turnover so we don’t really know, year on year, what’s happening with earnings. We also don’t know what the losses are as a percentage of turnover so we just have to speculate as to what the relative magnitude of that £835K loss was.