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Instead of using smilies why dont you just answer the question with a straight answer ?

The 'Butcher OUT' post got me a little agitated, simply because out problems do not lie with him alone. Nor should they. Yes we can say we've still got a list of injured/not fully fit players, and no that excuse wont wash for much longer, if at all. But why should our shoddy performance against St Johnstone (and even our current league position) merit HIM to be touted for the chop? Simple answer - He shouldn't be! I've only managed 4 games this season, and not once have I seen Richie Foran give 100% in his performances. He's meant to be the club captain and has done nothing but criticize his fellow professionals. And judging by the reactions of some others around me yesterday, I'm not the only one to think this. Foran has been less passionate in his overall game than he was at this stage last season. He's slow off the ground for headers he'd normally be expected to win, and has been at least a yard off the pace most of the season. His criticism's of other players performances cannot therefore be justified if he himself is worthy of even more criticism. Surely he cannot be the first name on the team sheet, just because he is club captain? What Foran needs is to be dropped, and dropped now. Shane Sutherland shows alot of passion and creativity whenever he plays, and even Andrew Shinnie is showing signs of linking well with Tade. With McKay pushing for more game time, Hayes close to a return and others looking to start, I really hope Butcher starts to utilise these men in an effort to bring some desire and fight of which has been lacking in Foran.

I think your right with the injury theory. I think he's had a problem for most of the season and should be rested till its sorted. However, in his role as captain, although he is entitled to shout at other players where appropriate, he is also supposed to be the motivator and organizer. None of that was evident on saturday. Sometimes I feel that Richie and the management team are trying to achieve results with tactics that, in any other workplace, are bordering on bullying and criticising rather that coaxing, encouraging and motivating.

Lets get things into perspective we are 1 point behind the Pars and Hibs despite suffering a horrendous injury spell which is only now starting to recede. I am not being complacent and am obviously not happy at being bottom but 2 good results could move us up a couple of places. Butcher has done a great deal over the last few years to demonstrate that he is a good manager and I have no doubt that he and Malpas will get the team moving in the right direction.

Would this be a good time to point out that Montenegro aren't even in our group?

most of the home fans when i went to watch a pre season game at elgin

Naelifts.

I rather think that now is not the month to moan our misfortune, we have two big games coming up, then a hard three games in November. The real test will come in December and January. we will have our big injuries back - and had time to get match fit aswell. December and January will also bring around those games against the teams in the lower half again, and that is when our season will be shaped. Tade works tirelessly but he aint going to get 15 goals this season, he needs someone beside him who will poach of his hard graft. Hayes and Doran will be back to introduce trickery, pace and directness. Cox and Tudor Jones will return to help seal the gaping holes our defence is finding it hard to prevent. Once we have our uninjured first 14-15 regular squad we are nowhere near the worst team in the league. Take a point from Celtic at the moment, we have had double the amount of injuries they have had, and look at what a difference that has made to them over the last month. You take 4 or 5 players out of Rangers and they will suffer the same way. You take 6 players out of ant other team in the SPL and each would nosedive. Have faith peeple, we will soon be on the march up the table to avoid a relegation battle. I have kept saying if we stay in touch until the injuries ease we will be ok, and I still trust that will be true

Butcher is going to prove a lot of people wrong. Threads like these nip ma heid!

Esson Don't really care Sutherland Too often this season, the team has played well one match and been poor the next, or well in the first half and poor in the second. To be honest, there is not a lot to choose between the players that are available and what matters is not who plays as much as what attitude they have and how well the team is prepared. This is an important match and a loss coupled with a poor performance would give legitimate cause for worry. I want 11 players on the park who will hurt if they lose and it is the manager's job to make sure that whoever is in the starting line up has the right attitude and knows what the team expects of them on the park. I'd probably give Foran one last chance. If he can't be morivated for this and give encouragement, rather than mouthing off at his young team mates, then I'd find a new captain.

For years I have had the pleasure of winding up a pal who's a Dundee United fan about being better than them, his reply was its all about building for next season they were poor for a few years and they have done not too bad since. So perhaps we need to start looking ahead, we dont quite have the right ingredients to make a gourmet dish this season so lets look at what we do have, what we can keep and what ingredients we can add to make various tasty meals next season.Maybe the under 19s will be coming into season by then. A good chef will add to what he currently has to produce the best dish possible, we got rid of some cod last season in the belief we were getting some Sea Bass in and ended up with fish fingers.

Foran is being played out of position - he is also evidently carrying an injury and isnt fully fit - the captaincy, his lack of form and frustration and the sometime ineptness and lack of effort by some of his peers - are all having an effect. Tade must also be a nightmare to play with. But at the end of the day TB is selecting him and playing him through an injury. Shall we start threads on Proctor, Tansey, Davis etc. ??

I agree with you DALNEIGHCALEY, this is a ludicrous time to be handing out new contracts while we are sitting at the foot of the table, total madness!!!! That fella Laurence was ridiculed by almost everyone on here but this decision beggers belief IMO it really does, he's probably having a right good chuckle at this tonight I personally would have waited till January before discussions took place that way we would have had more first team players back from injury and hopefully be in a much healthier league position If results improve and we start to climb the table that is the time to dish out rewards not when we are on the back foot, check my previous posts as i've already stated this opinion on a previous thread in case i get accused off fishing As usual the site admin and moderating team can only see nothing but positives my advice to them would be its time they entered the real world and accept there are some of us who are not scared to voice our opinions because it differs from theirs dougal Good post, I too believe that January would have been a better time to announce this, our place in the table could quite easily look a whole lot better after 3 or 4 good results and other results going our way conversely it could look a hell of a lot worse given some bad luck and a run of form for our rivals. I believe that signing TB and MM up for an extended spell in charge is probably a good thing but there are too many things which could go wrong and end up stretching our modest budget to breaking point. Could you not post without dragging things to a personal level in discussions which are valid and worthy of discussion? I usually sit back and don't comment unless I feel it is merited, I do however read most threads on here and you have a lot of good stuff to say, yes you get a fair bit of flaming some of which is undeserved but in some cases you get what you deserve.

So if I am understanding you correctly Gringo, it is okay to slate the captain on this website but not the manager who picks him and gave him the captaincy? The captain is to blame for the team's poor results, not the management team who decimated the squad and replaced them with short contract jobbers and loanies who see ICT as nothing more than a shop window for their names to be seen by "bigger" clubs?

Things to do on Halloween week, hang about woods which have a reputation for being haunted and put the shighters up fools who believe in fairy stories so much that they have to get rescued by coppers and firefighters laughing their heads off.

Has the team improved this season? No, gone backwards. I say Butcher & Malpas for the sack. A relegation battle is hardly exciting. It will be between us & Dunfermline. Horrible feeling that we will go down. Now is the time to change management before too late. Sack Butcher and we may just survive.