Leaderboard

The current system (not just the league structure) is rotten to the core and we desparately need change. What is wrong with the system is evidenced by the fact that clubs were given the option of all or nothing. Obviously clubs might be for a change in the voting structure and against the restructuring proposals but were simply not given the option of voting separately on the issues. In my view, the current system with the 11 - 1 vote for change means that no meaningful change is ever going to happen. I appreciate that a lot of fans don't fancy the league structure as proposed, but frankly, that was just a side issue in this sorry state of affairs. Voting for change today would have seen a change to the voting structure, the development of a pyramid structure and the first steps towards a much more sensible structure for the game. OK, so with that comes a league reconstruction which a lot of folk don't like but let's face it, there is no consensus around what folk actually do like. What was wrong with giving it a try? It just might have worked! And if it didn't work, at least we would then have the mechanism in place to change it. All this opportunity for change has been lost because 2 club chairmen have messed up big time. And please don't give me this crap about Uncle Roy standing up for his principles and listening to the fans - since when have the County fans been in favour of the 11 - 1 voting system? I've had a lot of respect for MacGregor in the past but that's gone I'm afraid. He's sold Scottish football down the river. Rangers will soon be back at the top table and it will back to square one. A sad day for Scottish Football IMHO.

I am going to say it .... yup .... I agree with IHE !!! Not sure about 14-14-14, but IHE is right, every system that could be proposed would be flawed in someone's eyes. For me, whatever the solution is, the foundation has to be simple ..... no splits or complicated realignments of leagues in mid season, no complicated self-preservationist tactics or rules, no multiple ruling bodies and a focus on turning the downward spiral in the opposite direction ... I tend to fall into the 16-16-16 camp with the addition of 6 new (ambitious) teams from juniors/HFL/South. If the likes of Caley Thistle and County can reach the SPL in 10 and 18 years respectively, then there is no reason others could not follow a similar path .... 16 teams does present a problem of only 15 home games per season as opposed to the current 18 in SFL or 19 in SPL, but maybe there could be some creative thinking on that with the establishment of an additional national cup competition or even regionalised cup competitions with home/away legs that would inevitably lead to a few derbies (and increased crowds). Failing that, if adding ambitious teams is not an option, I wonder if 20-20 might be an option? It would obviously call for 2 teams to be lost to non-league play, but with current finances and the game dying on its feet that - unfortunately - may not be as contentious, or as problematic an issue as it sounds .. go 20-22 initially and drop it to 20-20 over a few years through attrition. 2 leagues, 3up, 3 down, playoffs for a few more, pyramid system below that to allow ambitious teams a route into the 'big time', and all being run under a single organisation where each member club has a single vote and a simple majority is needed for most decisions. Youth development would also have to be taken seriously but not all clubs could afford academies so perhaps regional academies (initially) funded by the league and/or any grant funding available which could then be utilised by all clubs both big and small (assuming they did not already have their own that they chose to continue using). I know this will never happen, but its a fairly simple concept ..... These are ideas off the top of my head ... they may be good, they may be crap, but something has to change and for me the most important part is getting the foundation right and then building on that ... the rejected proposal doesnt seem to address that, but no-one else has really shouted a viable alternative from the rooftops .......

I'm all for change in Scottish football but this change was not right in my eyes. Certainly certain aspects are very appealing but the whole package as a take it or leave it option was ludicrous. Ridiculous scaremongering by certain parties pre meeting followed by desperate bargaining during the meeting as well by all accounts. Ross County and St. Mirren said no to this change specifically and not no to any change whatsoever. The way this seems to be getting forced upon teams is not right. It seems rushed and if the SPL or whoever is in charge really wants change for the better they'd be well advised to get it right first time with full and open consultation with fans, clubs and other relevant working groups. We have the chance to make a huge change to our game but it shouldn't just be the first thing that pops into our heads. What's wrong with copying something like the Belgium set up? That seems to be a good set up by all accounts (in terms of the league structure). Sorry but I think that's nothing short of disgraceful. Let us not forget that ICT were once one of those smaller clubs with smaller attendances. Now we have some of our fans saying let's get rid of these teams? Absolutely shocking. Those clubs aren't asking for us to support them as far as I am aware. You say we need to get the nation in love with the game again yet you suggest that we should rid the country of some of our football teams because they don't attract as many supporters along? I'd wager that those fans are just as passionate about the game and their team as ICT fans are. EDIT: Just read some more about the Belgian system. Scrap that idea!

It pains me to say this but the teacher is correct. Ditch the Old Firm. Have a competitive domestic scenario which draws crowds who will all think their team has a bona fide chance of success. This season has surely pointed us in that direction. Sure a new firm will arise in time...........who knows ........it may be ICT and RC! The money in the game will take a dive and so will turnstyle prices........no bad thing in my book.

12-12-18..... 12-10-10-10....14-14-14..... it's actually largely irrelevant. What has been under discussion today is nothing more than a rearrangement of the deckchairs on the Titanic. It's the basic product that's fundamentally dysfunctional as a result of two clubs, artificially enhanced in size because they are the focal point of west central Scotland's religious and Irish political divide, sucking in such a large percentage of the game's resources. People are getting terribly excited about the £1.3 million that would be handed down to the First Division. Better than a slap in the chops, but wait a minute... £1.3 million is LESS THAN 3% of Celtic's annual turnover of £52 million! It's also roughly the prize money for finishing 7th in the SPL. So compared with the kind of cash the Old Firm deal in... and that is the problem... £1.3 million, divided among 10 clubs, is little more than farting into a hurricane. It's less than ICT's drop off in turnover the season they were relegated. Quite simply, in the current era of football economics, wage expectations, broadcast deals etc etc, I believe that there is NO model where a population of 5 million can sustain a viable number of full time clubs alongside two which are turning over what the Old Firm suck out of the system. There simply isn't enough cash left for the other clubs when so many football fans and their money disappear from Scotland's towns and cities to Ibrox and Celtic Park. So I'm afraid I just have to return to my original suggestion that there is NO viable solution to this problem.

So that's it then, no change in a game that seeks a new major sponsor this year and has to look again at tv rights soon. No change in a game that at least we can all agree is dying by degree in this country. Dying because we couldn't try something new by simply altering with a points resetting a split in the league that we already have anyway and we could have altered after three years. No change in the cash distribution (how many more clubs after Dunfermline will we be saying goodbye to?) No pyramid that allows genuine progress on merit. No change to a derided 11:1 voting system. Why? because of the utter self interest of the two chairmen of two clubs who thought that they might be at risk of ending up in that split group and couldn't see the bigger picture. It's a shame that the picture has been clouded by the single issue of a bigger SPL. It simply isn't sustainable because the fans that have shouted loudest are those of clubs who are at the greatest risk of losing out on SPL status. They're not coming through the turnstiles in greater numbers, they're not investing in their clubs and they're not offering credible alternatives even after the clubs did their bidding last summer. They are just sitting in the back of the cave, afraid to come out and face the new. OK, the 12-12-18 wasn't perfect but it could have protected us from what I reckon will now be ratcheted up pressure for The Rangers to be accellerated into the top tier and boost income the old way. After all, according to St Mirren & County, we don't want change. We might just have seen the biggest cutting off your nose to spite your face that Scottish football has seen in years, but at least we know exactly where the blame lies.

I like that idea! But it's perhaps more a case of: "This bar's a dive and if we stay we're gonna get our heads kicked in. Who wants to go somewhere else?" [All 12 put hands up.] "Right, votes for the Red Lion?" [10 hands] "Queens Head?" [st Mirren fan] "Blue Oyster Bar?" [County fan] "Oh well, no agreement on where to go so we'll just stay here."

^^^ I like that Monopoly analogy! Here's one for the SPL voting structure. A dozen guys are on a stag night finishing their drinks in a pub. "Right lads, do we stay here for a another pint or will we head to the next bar? Hands up we move on." (a forest of hands (ten) goes up). "Okay, that's unanimous ...10 wanting to hit the next pub. So, it's decided guys, we're staying here! Not a sufficient amount of us want to move on" !!! DEMOCRACY!??!

Thank you very much Naelifts boy! Consider your 100 lines for offensive chanting cancelled! However I fear that "ditching the Old Firm" isn't a solution either. They exist in their current over inflated form and will continue to do so wherever they play such as in England. So they will continue to carry their very large support and destructively large cash grabbing capacity with them wherever they are. The Old Firm are simply a phemonenon of Scottish society and Irish politics which won't just go away. Scottish football is stuck with this potentially fatal component. So I fear there is NO solution to this problem of the Scottish game. I think what is happening is that in the current era, a number of factors such as the televised alternative and an even greater polarising effect due to the "gloryhunting" principle as people's expectations increase, are making much smaller units outwith the Old Firm progressively less viable. There simply isn't enough residual cake left for much else to survive. It's the classic Monopoly situation. The Old Firm have got their hotels on Mayfair and Park Lane so the other clubs, with at best a house or two on Trafalgar Square, or worse still the mere owners of Old Kent Road, don't have much of a chance. The scales are progressively tipping against them and "passing GO and collecting £200" (ie the £1.3M on offer) isn't going to make a huge amount of difference either.

Where have Ross County and St. Mirren said this?

Sadly, ol' CB (central belter!) is right, and he should know as he's even older than me! The only possible way out is for all the non- OF clubs in Scotland to grow a pair, resign en masse from the SPL and SFL, and form a new structure while leaving the twins of evil to play each other 38 times a year if they like. Of course, that scenario (I mean the part about growing a pair) is about as likely as Deek Adams dressing up as Santa at the next ICT Xmas party.

What like it has been for the last 15 years ? Who said it couldn't be changed for 3 years ? Who ever told you that was wrong. What was in the original proposal was that any structure changes within 3 years needed a larger majority than most other changes. If everyone wanted to change after the first year it could be done. From the reports, even that was removed and changes to structure would be on the same majority as everything else so the single sticking point that St Mirren gave as the reason for saying no was removed and they still said no. But to get the good points above that would help the lower end, there had to be compromise from the higher end, as they would lose out. You were never going to get the money redistribution without there being something in it for those giving up the biggest share of money. So you couldn't just cherry pick what you like as not everyone would cherry pick the same things and so there would have been no chance of getting what you want. And will you take Stuart Gilmour with them ? The St Mirren vote seems to me to have been about them being convinced they would have been in the middle 8 nearly every season, and then losing out on potential home games with the big teams, Celtic, ICT etc. Thing is if that is their normal position then they likely miss out on that game anyway, and if we went with a 16 team league, once home and away, then they definitely miss it. Yes 12-12-18 is not perfect, but there is no perfect solution for everyone. I posted some thoughts on a possible format last It gave a top 16 with playoffs at top and bottom, and although some here liked some of it, there were some points that probably would never be agreed on by enough teams. This was a chance to get the bits that most fans want, fairer distribution of money, playoffs, pyramid system, with a compromise on how we got there and making it easier to tweak later if it wasn't working. It seems to me some teams, and people, couldn't see that we needed to take a little pain in the short term, to make it better long term.

Credit to Roy MacGregor and Stuart Gilmore for sticking to their principles. A single league set up, play offs and a fairer distribution of income could have been brought in for next season without the other elements that proved ultimately to be deal breaking. The stance of the SPL that it had to be all or nothing was nothing short of intimidation and blackmail. Yes, existing SPL clubs would have slightly reduced income per capita. Yes they would have been a bit more at risk of relegation but the product would instantly be more attractive to Sponsors and TV partners and the risk of relegation would be balanced by the guarantee that the financial consequences would be less dire than now. Finally, the 11-1 voting structure has to be changed to no more than 9-3. It is no longer any secret that the structure was brought in so that no important change colid be effective without the consent of both members of the Old Firm. I can't, for the life of me, understand why all the current members of the SPL apart from Celtic have not changed the voting structure already. Sadly, it is only a matter of time before The Rangers are back in the top tier and if that position hasn't changed by then the Old Firm veto will remain for ever and a day.

I am afraid that EVERY system would be flawed in somebody's eyes - I am glad that this proposal has not gone through but we have to change. I would prefer to go more like the English system - I would suggest three leagues of 14 - the bottom 3 go down automatically - the top two go up and the next four fight for the third place.

FT Inverness CT U20 4 - 0 St Johnstone U20 Very pleased with the performance today. As the scoreline suggest a very dominant game. St Johnstone were not up to scratch today. First goal came from Shane Sutherland, the second was Ryan Christie with a lovely chip over the keeper, Nick Ross scored and Shane Sutherland grabbed the last one to finish it off. St Johnstone missed 2 penalties in the second half. 1st one hitting the post and the 2nd the keeper saved it.

With due respect Caley D, absolute tosh. Put aside selfish self interest and self preservation and all these things could be achieved without the rest of the nonsense. The only thing stopping it is pure greed and if ICT found itself outside the self serving clique of the SPL I am sure we would be singing a different tune.