Scotty

The sad part of all this - and without delving into the rights and wrongs or responsibilities of all parties - is that we have to discuss the same topic time after time after time after time and no-one who could take steps to alleviate it seems to do anything about it.

:clapping03: :clapping03: - nail on the head, but it looks like the word is already out.

Unlike hooligan firms, whose main aim is to fight fans of other clubs, the main focus of ultras is to support their own team. "Ultra" groups usually have four main aims # never stop singing or chanting during a match, no matter what the result # never sit down during a match (could be difficult to achieve in the SPL) # attend as many games as possible (home and away), regardless of cost or distance # loyalty to the stand in which the group is located I am a proud member of the Toronto FC Ultras group called U-Sector and we have made Section 113 at BMO Field very enjoyable and very intimidating to away teams. I personally struggle with the third aim because of cost/distance but the other three make it a thoroughkly enjoyable (and violence free) day out. As someone mentioned elsewhere, Aberdeen is a great example and this page is very informative. http://www.redultras.net/about/

indeed

and therein lies the answer :015:

Costa Rica, Cambodia and Haiti are good flags too - just replace the crests with ICT logos Costa Rica (with & without crest) Cambodia Haiti

and your point ? bottom line - ask any statistician and they will tell you that an own goal scored by an opposition player is credited to the team for whom it was scored and likewise an own goal scored by an ICT player into his own net counts for the opposition in stats. The numbers of OGs - for and against - in ICT's case are miniscule. I dont have the figures to hand as I am at work but I dont think its even into double figures.

It has been suggested on another thread that we might indeed get some money .... If I am wrong about this, I will be delighted :001:

Burley will do for me. seemed to be doing well enough at Hearts and he has two things going for him straight away ... He is neither Tommy Burns or Graeme Souness

If its for the good of the club/fans then we dont have a problem creating a separate forum or sub-forum. Let myself and CaleyD know what you are looking for and how you would like it to work and we can sort something out. The word "ultra" can have sinister connotations but in reality - as I have seen with 'u-sector' and Toronto FC ultras - for most clubs its really just another way of saying 'loyal and noisy' fans and we are all for that. :clapping03:

forget about everything else for a second and just ask yourself if this was an OF match at Parkhead or Ibrox whether this would be allowed to happen or even Aberdeen V Rangers at Pittodrie etc. If the answer is no (as it would be) then there is no grounds to say we should "just accept what happens" because its only ICT V the OF. Our fans have just as much right to feel safe and content in the designated home areas at the TCS as any other fan has at their own ground and to say any different is treating them with contempt. It is clear that many of the Rangers fans were not a problem behaviourwise, but it is equally clear that many home fans also felt intimidated or had their enjoyment somewhat spoiled and that is a problem. It is also a problem to have such a wide variety of ways of dealing with fans. If OF fans are not going to be removed from the home areas of the stands, then lets just get rid of segregation. no wait, we cant, its in the rules. ok then, lets apply the rules in the same way as we would for fans of Hearts, Hibs, St Mirren or Gretna .... no wait, we cant, against other teams we could happily move fans from home areas into empty seats in the away stand but for OF games we have already filled that one up. and of course we can't throw them out for breaking the stadium entry conditions, they might get angry. We need consistency, and if that takes a few games where there are extra police and opposing fans are horsed out of the home ends then so be it. The next time the fixture comes up again, the same thing should happen until it is realised by the fans themselves that the only way you are going to get away with being an opposition fan in the home end is if you are happy to make the trade-off of sitting quietly on your hands. And while we are on about consistency, I have seen a few mentions of the standing/sitting debate again in relation to this game. Again, if you are going to berate home fans at every game when they stand even for a minute or two, and do the same to opposing fans that travel in smaller numbers but then turn a complete blind eye to the OF standing or even sitting in the aisles then that also needs to be looked at. -rant over- :015:

did we mention the asterisk rule as well ..... :015: never mind though, you can use as many of these ones as you want - :crazy02:

no disrespect Alex, but that is a piss poor excuse. The shop premises (but certainly not its staff) have been a joke for a number of years and in my opinion the club are missing out hugely because of this. Personally, I would take a three pronged approach. 1: The club should have a 'proper' shop located within the stadium building which is big enough to allow customers to browse and for the staff to merchandise and display the stock effectively. When you go to any other normal retailer, you dont see all their stock on their shop floor - they display it, have some available and the rest in their warehouse. The club should take a similar approach. You will be able to store far more stock in a storeroom than you will ever be able to do if it is fighting for space in the actual shop itself. Part of the reason for having so much stock is also to do with minimum orders and extended lead times from Errea which is another thing that needs to be addressed. 2: The club should have its own town centre or Eastgate retail outlet. If charity shops can afford this then there is no reason that the club cannot. 3: The online shop is open for the whole wide world 24/7, is severely under-utilised and doesnt encourage overseas sales especially for the smaller items. If items 1 and 2 cannot be resolved then why not beef up the online shop so that ICT fans the length and breadth of the country as well as overseas fans can browse it. You dont need any space other than cyberspace to display anything in that one and your whole product line can be shown in glorious detail. Unfortunately however, the online shop only has a few items for sale and as i mentioned above, the terms offered actively discourage me from shopping. If I have a big order, then fair enough I might absorb the default delivery costs or they may even have to be higher depending on parcel size or weight, but if I want to order a few things they make huge markups on such as a mug, pennant, maybe this year's calendar and such like its going to sting me an additional 14 quid for postage and that makes it useless to me. I have actually had people go down to the shop on my behalf and post the stuff I mentioned to me at a cost of 3 or 4 pounds which kinda defeats the purpose.

who knows ...... we have yacht to see what will happen with the marina developments planned for that area :029:

David Stewart - a fan of ICT, and former MP can say what he likes just like any other fan. David Sutherland, said he would buy more shares if he had to to keep McGregor out.

Spencey's ok - just wish he would finish his pies before the second half starts .... he's always chomping through the first 10 minutes of the second half. Get Charles Bannerman and Bobby Wilson doing it as a double act instead :004:

Bottom line is that we should be open to investment from sources who we think have the interests of the club at heart. From my point of view, David Sutherland has always had this as part of his make up. He rescued the club from the edge, has put money in when required, sometimes publicly to a fanfare of plaudits but also quietly and philanthropically when virtually no-one was watching. I am not so naive that I think it was all done for no return - he has had plenty of good advertising of his business, he gets positive publicity for giving back to the local economy, his companies doubtless earn contracts both from ICT and others based on what they have done and if/when the Longman area starts developing as discussed, they will be in pole position to benefit from that. I have no problem with any of that so long as anything done concerning the stadium area is in the best interests of ICTFC. This other character - described as a Rangers supporting fantasist in the media over the weekend - a "King Billy Liar" if you like - seems to have desires to take over a football club, any football club but no clue as to what he would do with it other than grand statements that he cant back up .... and should be kept as far away from ICT as humanly possible.

The stage is set for Fir Park ..... Barry Wilson has scored some beauties there and he will bag #1000 this weekend :014:

Dont know much about any of the teams but Ghana and Ivory Coast are 3/1 joint favourites and Nigeria / Cameroon are at 7/1 The rest are way out there: http://www.oddschecker.com/football/intern...rket/best-odds/

Its the proliferation of roundabouts that seems weird to me ..... I remember having to try and direct people from the A9 or A96 to the Muirtown locks area a few times ..... try it for yourself and see just how many times you have to mention "take the 'nth' exit from the roundabout"

:024: mmmm, didnt he sign for us from Huntly as a striker or midfielder back in the depths of time and only became a defender at the moulding hands of Pele ?

Must put that in my signature somewhere :004: As a matter of interest .... while looking for something else, I came across my copy of the accounts for 2007 and whilst I wont post them in full, a few snippets make interesting reading based on the above conversations ..... In 2006 we made a profit of just under 220K, in 2007 this rose to 280K In 2006, after the AGM our balance in the bank was 200K, in 2007 that rose to 430K In 2006 we had 82 staff, in 2007 it was 92 In 2006 employment costs were 1.65m, in 2007 it dropped to 1.61m we seem to be running a tight ship, the bank balance looks good, employment costs are under control and there is no evidence of financial mismanagement ..... i look forward to the next accounts in May 2008 that will - as i suggested earlier - probably show a slight loss due to the two factors i mentioned but still see us having a nice healthy positive bank balance.

any sell-on clause is only likely valid for the length of his first contract at his new club, not for life .... think I am right in saying Robson has gone well beyond that first contract and we will get a big fat zero even if we did have a sell-on clause in the original deal.

Is it true that Bobby's now got his own postcode ?

RiG - there are many ways to find out the content of this rumour - even in Toronto, so it should not be a problem to get that info in your locale. I just have a problem with name(s) being posted when they cannot be verified.