DoofersDad

I disagree. The youngsters will get their chance but I think the manager needs to pick what he thinks is his strongest attack minded team available for this one. There are 3 reasons. We have yet to have a win in the league this season and there is a need for more time for the players to gel and particularly for the defence to gel. We are creating chances and scoring but are shipping too many. Get that right and we could win a lot of matches this season. Now is not the time to mess around with the side. There is also no point in giving players a "rest" because there is a weeks international beak after the Motherwell match. Linked to that is the need for team to get the confidence of a good win to get some momentum going. We need our best players playing well to acheive that. We should not under-estimate Arbroath - note that the Rangers were held by Berwick today and after 3 games are only 4th. Getting a win and hopefully by 2 or 3 goals or more should do wonders for morale. And as many have been saying on this forum, we need a decent cup run, both to ignite some momentum of support but also to help with our difficult financial situation. It may only be Arbroath but this is an important game for the club and we need to approach it with as much seriousness as if it was a crunch league game.

Agree we haven't seen the best of Esson this season, but if we didn't lose any of the first 3 matches and the keeper was well below his best then I'd say there wasn't too much to worry about.

It is easy to be critical of players after seeing them perform below expectations in just a handful of matches. Match day situations are different from the training ground and players who show great ability in training can take some time to adapt. I have seen Raven in the 2 home league games and he has not impressed, but rather than slate the lad I think he should be given his chance if the management team feel his showing on the training ground justifies his place in the starting line up ahead of Meekings. But sometimes, no matter what coaches see day in and day out on the training ground, that form never translates itself to the match day situation and you just have to accept that something different has to be tried. Surely we are that stage with the way MacKay and Sutherland are played and it is worrying that Butcher persists with this. Remember when he first came here and persevered with Barrowman when Rooney was clearly a far better option on match days. It must be frustrating for coaches when players who shine on the training ground perform poorly on matchdays. Equally it can be exasparating (in a nice way) when players who are nothing special in training do much better in matches. The skill is recognising these situations when they arise and responding positively to them. The concern with Butcher is that he seems to be too stubborn in persisting in what he thinks should work rather than recognising what actually does work. Raven maybe just needs a few more games to adjust to the SPL before things click with him. If things click then perhaps in a few months time we will have everyone on this forum saying he must be offerred a new contract. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we slate him and discourage him before he has had a real chance to prove himself. Let's have a bit of faith in the judgement of the management team and if Raven continues in the team for a few more matches, give him support to help him boost his confidence.

Didn't see any Celtic fans in the North stand but there were plenty who weren't supporting ICT.

Celtic may have beaten us 4 -2 on the park but their supporters beat us 10 - 0 on the terraces. Surely we must have the worst home fans in the league and you can see how badly it affects the team; they are scared stiff of making mistakes and receiving a torrent of abuse from the so-called support. In the match thread I said I think the players lack confidence and to be honest, a significant part of that is that they are worried about getting abuse when things don't go right. The crowd do precious little to lift the team but plenty to let the team know that they do not meet the fan's often unrealistic expectations. Take two examples from today. One of the guys sat next to me got to his feet after Celtic's 2nd goal and let rip with a tirade of vitriolic abuse aimed at Terry Butcher. When we scored our goals he simply sat in his seat and didn't even clap. He generally mumped and moaned about what was on display and never once as far as I was aware clapped or uttered any words of encouragement. And amongst the general moaning behind me were comments during a passage of play when we were keeping possession well but not making progress. "F***ing do something with it" was the shout from behind. No sooner had that advice been given than Morrison, I think it was, tried to put the ball over the defence for Andrew Shinnie to run on - it nearly came off but was well cut out and the same voice shouts out, "for f***'s sake don't give it away!" Just what do these people want and expect? We're not Barcelona and if we try anything other than the safe ball it will come off less often than it doesn't. Today we were up against the league champions and their side is stuffed with internationals and sometimes balls don't find their intended target because very good defenders read the situation and do their job well. Let's give them credit for that. And let's give our team credit for trying to play football against Celtic rather than being boring like County and simply stopping them playing and having no ambition. Do these people ever stop to think about what the impact is on the players? Presumably not. How do they think that players feel when they hear more noise in shouts of frustration and abuse when they make an error than they hear in applause and shouts of encouragement when they play a 30 yard pass inch perfect to a team mate? Well, it doesn't make them feel confident and appreciated that's for sure. Believe me, I get just as frustrated as anyone, even angry, when players make basic errors but I respond by silently cursing to my self, rolling my eyes or shaking my head or the like - I don't voice my feelings at the player but will make a point of clapping and shouting encouragement when they next get the ball and use it well. This thread is about small crowds and the concern that some folk no longer come to watch the team. To be honest, it would be a good thing if some who still come along on a Saturday afternoon started staying away. That might mean that those who actually support the team might have more of an influence on the mood of the crowd as a whole and the team will respond to a more positive atmosphere in the ground. That in turn might encourage others to start supporting the team and take the place of the moaners. Now I expect there will be those who will have a go at me saying that they pay good money and can expect to see better entertainment and have a right to make their views known. I would agree with that but the way to do that is to express your views on this forum or directly to the club if you are that angry. On match days, the players really need the support and encouragement of the fans and it really makes me angry that so many who turn up seem to do their best to abuse and discourage the team. They fail to understand that far from venting their anger at what they see as the problem, they are actually part of the problem themselves. I think I am right in saying there are signs at the gates referring to "home support". That is for peope who will support the home team, not people who apparently want the home team to win but who abuse rather than support them. Perhaps there should be signs at the gates directing those who are going to shout abuse at the home team to the South Stand because the only team that benefits from the way some of the paying customers in the main and North stands behave is the away team. Apologies for the length of this rant but I really am getting well and truly p***ed off by the behaviour of some of the people who pay to watch our team but who undermine the confidence of the team and ruin the matchday experience for others. By all means criticise the team as much as you want on this forum but for Christ's sake, on a match day give the team what they so desparately need - support! How f***ing difficult is that?

Missed the first goal due to the police's idea of traffic "management" on a match day being to stop traffic coming off the bridge with the result that ther traffic was backing up almost to the Munlochy junction and I was in a queue for nearly 45 minutes and arrived 15 minutes after kick off. "Lucky b*stard" I hear you say. I'm not too disheartened. Clearly there were weaknesses at the back and Celtic had more quality, but I felt 2 - 4 was a better reflection of the play than 0 - 4. Celtic never had spells were they were laying seige to our goal and to honest, never particularly threatened as much as one might expect the champions to do. They were just more clinical in front of goal. But I don't think any of the ICT squad played particularly well. I've said it before and I'll say it again - it's not a lack of ability or passion, it is lack of confidence. To often there is either not the confidence to have a pop at goal or to take a man on. I thought that was particularly the case with Doran who, in many ways was about the best ICT player today. There were time that he controlled the ball well, slipped his marker and surged forward but then lacked the confidence to either drive into the box or play a more difficult but telling pass. Instead he would stop and look to play a simple ball to someone who was in no better position than he to do anything with it. At times there were players in good positions which he seemed unable to spot so don't know whether it is lack of awareness or lack of confidence I don't know, but he is someone who you feel could be a big player for us. Again I thought that Billy Mackay put in a good shift but he needs to play in partnership with a bigger striker. I really would like to see him playing up front with Sutherland and I still fail to understand why Sutherland is played where he is. The poor lad's confidence looks shot to shreds and he is the obvious casulaty to make room for the return of OTJ and Foran (both of whom were badly missed today). Raven looks as though he is going to struggle at this level and Meekings gave us a lot more options when he came on instead. The big disappointment for me was Andrew Shinnie who contributed little. I felt his work rate was poor and he seemed to be the one player who never pressured the opposition. Pepper showed much better attitude when he came on and whilst he was disposessed rather easily at times, he played a quality ball to Draper for the 2nd. Draper's composure for the 2 goals bodes well for the future. I was also encouraged by the willingness to play passing football even when 4 goals down and whilst the quality and cohesion in the side was a bit dissapointing, we will play worse and win this season.

Either way it takes even longer in a caravan.

Just to add that if it can be done in Inverness it can be done in Dundee. ICT's match against Celtic tomorrow has been moved to 12.45 so there is no clash with the big cup match at 15.00 between Clach and Lossie.

I appreciate that the games can't be played at the same time, especially in Dundee where the 2 grounds are so close, but why can't they just stagger the games with one game kicking off at, say, midday and the other at 4pm? That should be enough of a time gap to prevent any clashes between the rival fans of the home teams whilst allowing visiting fans the opportunity to get to the games.

Lots of tickets available. Should be a good game so an opportunity to encourage those who don't normally attend to enjoy a some quality football. A win would set us up nicely for the season so let's give the lads some real encouragement.

No prediction from me - I'm just pleased that there's no chance of it being Ally McCoist.

Great result for Everton. It would be good for the game if one or two of the clubs that are not mega rich could really get in the mix this year - but I'll settle for the Villa staying up.

Young, Berbatov and Van Persie on the bench. What hope for the rest of the footballing world when a club can afford to have such hugely talented players sitting out the first game of the season. And shouldn't we, the paying public, feel short changed by the fact that so many top players are sitting on the bench or aren't even in the squad. They should be on view entertaining the crowds week in and week out when they are fit. The big clubs buy some of the top players not because they need them but to stop other clubs buying them. Teams like ICT struggle to find decent strikers and the reason is that so many good players are signed up to top clubs and only get a handful of games

I am picking up a general feel good factor from contributors to the forum this season. In general people like what they see but they are not going to go on and on about it. The nature of a forum is to discuss things which are controversial and hopefully we can do so in a way which can be both humerous and respectful. If anyone does not like the way particular folk contribute then they don't have to read their posts. In football as in other things, the way to guarantee medioctity is to focus on praising the good and to brush aside the bad. The way to success is to acknowledge and praise the good but to focus on the bad and to try and eliminate it. You can be sure that the coaches of all the medalists for team GB did just that. You don't improve unless you understand what is not 100% and then work to improve on it. I would hope and expect that if we were top of the league we would still have people on this forum criticising certain things and making suggestions for improvement. I would however be very disappointed if they did not also recognise it was brilliant to actually be top of ther league. This season has stated with some promising displays and a change of style. There is a lot to be optimistic about but let's be honest, the big talking point has to be the sendings off of 2 of our most experienced midfielders and I really fail to see how discussing that can be called negative.

Perhaps Dougal can offer B&B?

You're probably right. Whatever we say is unlikely to change the Manager's view on his favourite player but it's interesting to hear what views others have.

You appear to be making excuses for him but my point is that it is precisely in these sort of situations where refs make poor decisions and where opponents commit fouls that a clear head is needed. The captain needs to keep his head and ensure his team mates retain their focus. Today he was a very poor example to his team and it is to their huge credit that they kept their composure and directed their agression constructively in salvaging a draw. I hope Foran has learnt a lot from the youngsters today.

He's pretty much been a defence-minded midfielder for the best part of a season. How many goals should he be scoring? It's only relatively recently that he has been more defence minded. Remember that last season he claimed he was going to fill the void left by Rooney and what did het get? Just a couple of goals if I remember correctly. But the number of goals is really a side issue to the main points about whether he should remain captain or even be in the starting XI at all.

The question of where Butcher plays Foran is immaterial if he is constantly suspended. In his post match interview Terry rather dismissed the sending off saying that lack of match practice caused him to miss his timing and he was keen to get stuck in! No Terry! Nice try for the media but this was Foran raging at a decision he did not like and losing the head. Hopefully Terry is raging at Foran behind the scenes and setting him straight. Last week Foran was absent on suspension and OTJ, another influential midfielder had a rush of blood to the head and saw red. We have a small squad and simply cannot afford to be losing players due to suspension. I would expect that Terry has been speaking to the whole team about the need for discipline and control after OTJ's inexcusable behaviour last week, but what do we get? We get our captain, returning from suspension himself and unable to last 45 minutes before he too gives the team a mountain to climb. It is interesting to reflect that a number of people on this forum were saying that it was indiscipline amongst the team which put them from buying season tickets and to my mind there is no doubt that we would encourage more to attend if the players were better role models. Defenders of Foran will no doubt say we need a captain to be fired up and to play for the shirt. But that is only one quality needed in a captain. Leadership requires control and that is what Foran lacks. What use is a captain if he is sitting in the dressing room whilst his team are 2 goals and a man down? And that brings me to the question of just how influential a captain is he in the first place? We have had 2 pretty decent performances without him and then he plays for 45 minutes and we go 2 - 0 down. He is absent for the 2nd 45 minutes and we pull the 2 goals back being a man down. It really does beg the question of whether or not he is the best man for the captaincy. I know that Foran rather divides the fan base and I would have to say that I am really undecided even after all the time he has been with the club. He can be brilliant but at other times he seems to snipe rather than encourage and he has a real weakness in his self control which he has demonstrated spectacularly today. Apart from the captaincy, he also does not score as many goals as he should. Should he remain captain? Should he be in the starting line up at all? To be honest I would have to say "I don't know" to both questions and would be interested to hear what others think.

Penalty was for King holding Sutton. If he was holding then it's a pen by the rules - but where is the consistency? If a pen was given every time a defender held a player there would 20 pens every game. Brilliant effort to come back with 10 men from 2 goals down. I expect there are some choice words on the Hearts forum just now!

Don't know that your description reflects the game I saw. The BBC report suggested ICT had 56% of possession which seems more consistent with my impression of a very strong first quarter from us but with Kilmarnock edging the game after that. It also reflects more passing and maintaining possession better than last season's long ball tactic. I agree that you see the game better from an elevated position but you can shout more effectively from the touchline. There needs to be communication from someone with a better view to those on the touchline.

The Tartan Army are nothing but a bunch of kilt-wearing, cringe-inducing, drunken hooligans. Better the Tartan Army than the trouser wearing, cringe inducing, drunken hooligans that have shamed the name of English football so often in the past.

Just because someone was born in Scotland doesn't necessarily make them Scottish. 6 gold medals were won for team GB by athletes born outside the UK. This was an event for people eligible to represent GB and NI so there is really no point trying to claim Scottish medals. Let's wait till the commonwealth games when athletes who meet the eligibility criteria for Scotland and elsewhere can decide for themselves whether they want to be considered as Scottish or not. I have no doubt that on that basis Scotland will win more medals per head of population than the English. I think the games have been brilliant. Team GB came 3rd in the medal table with significantly more gold medals than Russia and Germany who normally would be expected to be well ahead of us. Whilst the Government may have spent a lot of money on infrastructure, the athletes have been supported through the lottery and their achievements will hopefully inspire youngsters to try out a variety of different sports and we will have a healthier population as a result. Also, top marks to the BBC. Coverage has been superb - and still is through their website.

Is there a reason the magazine / programme can't be sold inside the ground? Surely more would be sold if they were.

Looks promising to me. We haven't got a replacement for Jonny Hayes on a good day but to be honest, he didn't have too many of those - we tended to see flashes of brilliance rather than consistent tormenting of defences over 90 minutes. I just get the sense that this team will blend together nicely and will end up having a better balance to it. We just need someone to get some confidence in front of goal.