Butcher and Malpas extend contracts

[marks]

Seeing as his contract has been signed up till 2014 is everyone happy if he is still with us if we get relegated this season? I don't think it'll happen but i think its a tough spl this season and it could. If we get relegated would we be ok with that for the long term plans of this club and hope Terry can bring us back up the first chance of asking?

Yes, I'd be happy to see him stay if the worst was to happen but I'd like to think that he'd drop down to the wage structure of SFL clubs, this is my main concern. If there is a clause in the contracts to this end then without doubt I would not have as much confidence in any other management team's ability to do so, they have a proven record as far as that is concerned. However our squad's contract status is not as strong as the last time, if we dropped we'd lose players and we would need as much money as possible for the playing staff's budget to make a realistic challenge. Hopefully this would not happen but I believe it has to be a consideration.

[absent friend]

I also think that this is a positive move by the club BUT for a different reason to most posters on here.

We are now entering a more positive phase for ICT, both in players returning after injury and the calibre of the games we are about to face. This could see us propelled up the league and sitting in the attention area for any club board wishing to change their manager.

Should this scenerio come about and the money offered attracts him/them, ICT could, due to this extension of the contract, perhaps enjoy a greater financial reward for being forward thinking.

Maybe, just maybe, this is a win win situation all round.

[tm4tj]

The whole point of signing players on short term deals is to be able to offload if they under perform or if, heaven forbid, we are relegated. Should this approach not be followed for managerial staff? One rule for them another for the players, maybe it could be counter productive as far as settling the team/ dressingroom.

Sounds like advocating for the devil if you ask me. That scenario is being implanted in others minds by yourself.

Marks said>> Why is it down to the fans to create confidence in the team rather than the other way around?

The confidence from the fans is gained by the team/management not being knocked at every opportunity. The teams performance also gives out confidence to the fans. It's a two way thing. They play rubbish we get on their backs, we drag them down all the time they find it difficult to get out of the rut. Accept that sometimes there are no hidden agendas in things that happen. Not everyone/everything has an ulterior motive.

I don't need to re-read your post thanks, once is enough, and if the cap fit's then wear it.

[marks]

The whole point of signing players on short term deals is to be able to offload if they under perform or if, heaven forbid, we are relegated. Should this approach not be followed for managerial staff? One rule for them another for the players, maybe it could be counter productive as far as settling the team/ dressingroom.

Sounds like advocating for the devil if you ask me. That scenario is being implanted in others minds by yourself.

Marks said>> Why is it down to the fans to create confidence in the team rather than the other way around?

The confidence from the fans is gained by the team/management not being knocked at every opportunity. The teams performance also gives out confidence to the fans. It's a two way thing. They play rubbish we get on their backs, we drag them down all the time they find it difficult to get out of the rut. Accept that sometimes there are no hidden agendas in things that happen. Not everyone/everything has an ulterior motive.

I don't need to re-read your post thanks, once is enough, and if the cap fit's then wear it.

No, I think that what I have given is a fair assessment. I am looking at all scenarios, others are looking only for positives. Ying and Yang, if you have only a one sided view you have a false view.

As for the confidence issue there is a world of difference between confidence and support, eg I am going to support Scotland (via the TV set) in their next two matches but I have little confidence in them winning their group, hope yes confidence no. Please tell me where I have slated the team/ management, I have raised issues and given reasons behind my issues, to get back to Scotty's point you have not addressed issues which I or anyone else has raised you have only taken the points people have made and slated individual posters for addressing possible negative outcomes, even going as far as to put ideas into people's minds of ulterior motives. Who is playing devil's advocate?

Nor have I claimed there are ulterior motives from the club, just an apparent lack of preparing for the worst.

Edited October 7, 2011 by marks

[tm4tj]

Aye whatever.

I don't have the answers to any of your issues, and don't have time to play games so sorry, you will have to ask someone else.

[marks]

Post edited because Scotty is correct in the following post, no need to get involved in anything other than the topic of discussion.

I believe that Terry and Mo getting contract extensions will turn out to be a good decision, however I still hold reservations about the timing of the announcement and the fact that it seems to fly in the face of comments made by TB himself during the transfer window. I hope that this is just the beginning of a building process which will see the same faith shown in TB and MM being shown in the playing staff, after all the playing staff have been chosen by TB and MM.

Edited October 7, 2011 by marks

[Scotty]

Finally having a go at people for having some doubts about this is ludicrous in the extreme, I would have thought Moderators understood that the purpose of a forum was for people to express their opinions.

Other than the "bollocks" comment which was a response to a poster starting the personal bullshit and having a go at the moderators rather than a moderator having a go at anyone - ie. the opposite of what you seem to be suggesting - can you show me where any moderator has sought to deny a poster the right to express their opinion in this thread?

Can you show me where I said that the moderator "has sought to deny a poster the right to express their opinion", I just thought that post #11 was having a go at people that up until that stage were just expressing their opinion.

Didnt say that you were. However, I will explain my comments to bring some clarity and closure to the off topic portion of this discussion ... you said 'having a go at people for having some doubts about this is ludicrous in the extreme' and went on to say 'I would have thought Moderators understood that the purpose of a forum was for people to express their opinions'. To me that sounds like you are saying that it is the moderators who started having a pop at the regular posters when the reverse is true. This thread was ticking along quite nicely with a reasoned discussion and no personalisation of it. Post #11, whilst perhaps disagreeing with a number of posters, did not name anyone, and did not abuse anyone, it was just an opinion and perhaps some frustration on the part of the poster. The 'naming' started at post #23 when that poster thought to throw in an unnecessary reference to the moderators and tar all of them with the same brush. The sad part is that the actual points made in that post that were relevant to the discussion were actually valid and it would have stood on its own without the personalisations, but by personalising it, it turned this thread, like so many others into an absolute shitfest.

If you read my posts #23 and #33 you will see exactly where I believe the blame lies, and I will say again, it is a shame that this is the case because any valid points made by that poster (and there are usually a few) are often lost in the cloud of personalisation that accompanies every post ....

I will also add one final thing to this comment, and that is to point out that moderators (or admin) are only moderators when actually moderating or helping ensure the smooth running of the forum. When they post, they post their own personal opinions the same as any user, and you can agree or disagree with those opinions. Like every other poster on this site they may respond "more strongly" than someone would like at times and if so, they are subject to the same rules as other users in terms of having posts deleted or receiving warnings ... so lets put this side conversation to bed and get back to discussing the actual subject !

I'm happy he has been given a new contract as i rate him as a manager quite highly, however this season he has scared me a little in the way of getting rid of Munro and Duncan and not replacing them with anyone as good or better. I'm also not the biggest fan of these loan moves as i like to see players playing for us for the longhaul. I do however understand why he does this and we recieved Aaron Doran because of this.

We do seem to be improving but as someone else said, so are Hibs and Aberdeen. Seeing as his contract has been signed up till 2014 is everyone happy if he is still with us if we get relegated this season? I don't think it'll happen but i think its a tough spl this season and it could. If we get relegated would we be ok with that for the long term plans of this club and hope Terry can bring us back up the first chance of asking?

I (personally) think he made a mistake getting rid of Munro and Duncan - as posted by myself last week, but he has to live with that and get on with things.

I am happy he has a new contract as I do believe we are on the up. Yes we are at the bottom, and results are not as good as we might have hoped, and I understand why some people question the announcement, even if I disagree with them. However, as noted in my post on the "Keep the Faith" thread I also think he has had a lot to deal with this season that hasn't helped us so overall I am happy to see him sign a new deal.

I also had not thought of AbsentFriend's point, which is a good one too ... A lot of managers seem to get the chop during the season and Butcher has had a recent record of doing quite well so may be in demand if jobs were available. We may be sitting at the bottom at the moment, but he did take us back up at the first time of asking, and we did well last season in the SPL ... our current league position would probably be ignored by any potential employers as our last few games have shown an improvement in form ....

I would also say the idea of not giving a contract because it would cost more to sack him if he is on a longer deal is bogus too. ICT - as a rule - do not sack managers. Yes we sacked Brewster V2.0, but he was the only one (officially at least - Baltacha was 'mutual consent' at the end of a season). Pele left for Aberdeen, Robbo left for Hearts, Brewster(V1.0) left for Dundee United, and Charlie resigned .... TB is not getting sacked anytime soon, and probably not even if he were to get us relegated ... the merits of that can be argued, but I think its fairly certain. I also dont think Brewster would have got sacked if it were not for two things ... a lot of bad feeling about him taking the Dundee job first time round, and a lack of charisma and personal PR in dealing with the media and the fans ... for the most part TB has both eating out of his hands, especially when things are going well.

[caleyboy]

Kenny Cameron may not know much about football but if he instigated this move - A BIG WELL DONE TO HIM

Edited October 7, 2011 by caleyboy

[Ten4]

Agree Munro & Duncan shoudv`e stayed as has been previously mentioned but this was the catalyst to the forward thinking , change of course that has now been taken so we need to forget about what could have /should have been with them still at club.

That is why we have a manager to trust him to make the best decisions for the club. Good Luck GM & RD but more of the good luck & decision making to TB.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I fer one am chuffed and delighted that the narcissist has been awarded for his efforts at ICT.I only hope that it does not affect his psychological development I now look forward to some private work in retirement.

I am also delighted on two counts. TB has settled in the Highlands and despeartely wanted to put down roots here. This decision should take a great deal of pressure of him and hopefully HE will settle now - lets face it - he has been a grumpy old ******* recently and perhaps his focus was diverted.

And now we should see the Savage / Sutherland battle take off.

[Scarlet Pimple]

The Moderators on this forum are as fair and restrained as you will get anywhere else. And, so long as you are non-abusive to other posters, you are always allowed a fair hearing.

Concentrate on putting your own point of view and don't be so ready to attack other posters or their viewpoints.If you have a problem with that, there is no use sending this Pimple a querulous P.M. --better send it to IHE who is a highly trained psychoanalyst with the added gift of being related to the Brahan Seer. Listen to him carefully and if you are not more confused afterwards than you were before, just mull it over and .... dae as you-all are telt.

And it is true that the greater part of the positive posts are frequently from much older folks with a vision which reaches farther than the next win or loss.Which youse youngsters simply don't have, so be kind to us older yins and defer to our superior judgement....eh?

As for Managers--they come and go and every Manager must be given a fair chance to complete his plan without having to fear for his position at the club evertytime there is a downturn in the performance, or goals or wins. Management, like team performances , are frequently cyclical and the wise Board understands this and is settling in for the long term.

Running a football team is like the see-saw of life--now you are up and now you are down. But it's also a lot of fun...eh?

[Hiro]

Negative, negative, negative, whinge, whinge, whinge... Am I doing it right?

I think thte fact that we have management stability is a good thing. I understand that performances have been patchy however we are now seeing signs that the changes are finally starting to make a positive impact. I'm fairly sure if the worst happens and we do go down there will be some kind of break clause, however I'm fairly sure it won't be needed. Terry and Mo are the right men for this club and anyway - Who on earth could we realistically bring in that could achieve any better?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Kenny Cameron may not know much about football but if he instigated this move - A BIG WELL DONE TO HIM

I have green dotted you as I feel that it is unfair to cruelly criticise your evident naievity.

[marks]

BUMP

[Sorted]

What is it with this forum. Anything positive that emanates from the club gets met with scepticism and negativity.

Good to get the men at the helm tied up, lets work on the rest as we progress.

You assume two points.

Firstly, it is a positive to award a management team, at the bottom of their league, a new contract.

Secondly, it is a shared view that our management team are 'good'.

Those who disagree may not conform with what is expected here but they are entitled to there view. Just because they don't share your opinion doesn't make theirs necessarily negative and yours positive. It can be argued equally (much more realistically some might say) that your view is nonsensical and theirs pragmatic.

[dead_ball_specialist]

Who on earth could we realistically bring in that could achieve any better?

Maybe.

[ICTPaisley]

Haha I would love that!

[starchief]

I seriously would love that.

[+DoofersDad]

Not a chance that they'd be as successful 2nd time round and it would be sad to see them fail. It would tarnish the memory we have of their time at the club.

Just because the Board have recently successfully completed negotiations to keep Terry and Mo at the club is not a good reason to open new negotiations to get rid of them. The current management team have a number of failings which I won't go into here but they also have a lot of good qualities and on balance have had success here. Our current position is more a consequence of our injury problems and poor refereeing decisions than poor management IMHO. I remain confident the season will turn around and feel it is way to soon to question Terry and Mo's position.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The current management team have a number of failings.

Our current position is more a consequence of our injury problems and poor refereeing decisions than poor management IMHO.

Apologies but had to put the psychology hat on.

Could it actually be a combination of all three ?