Training Methods

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

FOUR TWO FOUR - MARCH 2007

Butcher is back in the UK after his stint in charge at Sydney which saw the side only just scrape into the finals - and then get booted out in the first round.

After he left, it was revealed he had only organised one proper training session during his whole time in charge.

Terry Butcher orders Caley Thistle players to go easy at training as injuries mount

Feb 16 2011

INVERNESS boss Terry Butcher has warned his players to go easy in training - as he can't afford any more crocks.

Butcher, who only had 16 players in his pool for the 3-3 weekend draw at St Mirren, said: "We can't give the players hard training in case we pick up any more injuries.

"We're going to have to rein it in a little so we give them the best chance to recover from their efforts at St Mirren."

BUT:

Butcher revealed he relied on phone calls and internet chats with his former Motherwell sidekick Maurice Malpas to get him through the hard times. "It must have been like the Samaritans in the early weeks when things weren't going well for either of us," he says.

THOUGHTS

But here is another Terry quote from 4-2-4 which would have got him into deep trouble with us .

Everything was a test and day after day there was another problem but we got through them," he said. "We were like a gypsy club and I felt like a nomad

[HumbersideDude]

This quote from Maurice Malpas has turned up on Twitter,

I don't mean any disrespect to my fellow footballers, but the majority are thick. (Dundee United defender Maurice Malpas, January 2000)

Just as well i've never said anything I will regret in years to come!

(Except "I do" To 1st wife obviously)

[Gabby]

I have alsways said that if it wasn't for professional sport, the unemployment benefits budget in any country would at least double and we would have to build more jails.

[Yngwie]

Interesting thought Gabby. You might well be right because history shows that in the days before professional sport, our jails were so full that we had to ship our convicts over to Australia

And they do seem to have possessed better sporting genes than the average Brit!

[caleyboy]

From what I heard, Maurice Malpas does the majority of the training. I really do think we should leave training methods etc to those who know what they are talking about and by that I mean up to date methods not from the old days.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Oh grief - the usual defensive, ultra loyal response. Terry and Mo are simply not above criticism !!

The OP was of course slightly tongue in cheek but are we holding back on training ? What is the current fitness regime ? Who the feck is monitoring fitness and preparation for a return ?

Hayes is reported to have suffered a groin strain on his return - that totally reeks of not being fit / ready or not having warmed up properly.

[PullMyFinger]

He'll have a bigger groin injury if he doesn't get back on to that park and do something! :irritated:

[FoolPhysio]

It could be that it is due to carrying a long-term niggling injury, but it also occurred to me that the drop in enthusiasm by Foran may have been caused by the extended period of injury with Hayes and the move away by Rooney - I just wondered how close a group they really were and if these changes have upset a delicate equilibrium.

Of course, that could just be due to my inherent paranoia and coffee-induced headache . . .

[PaderbornCaley]

For my Thesis I conducted a study on pre-match training methods for team sports and the physiological responses from it. There are plenty of studies published providing evidence of the best training methods / warm ups. Ten years ago, athletes of all sports were doing static stretches during warm ups. I'm sure you all had it in PE as a child. The teacher telling us to do our stretches. Within the last ten years or so, just about all the evidence points to static stretching as a warm up protocol increasing the chance of tears and strains and significantly reducing various performance factors such as repeated sprint ability and vertical jumping.

Football however is sgnificantly behind the times. Take any other sport in the UK - cricket teams have exercise physiologists working for them. If you play squash at a high level you have exercise physiologist, sport psychologist, dietician etc etc. In football however, the people that take the training are ex players turned managers. They may have football badges but no real scientific understanding of what they are doing in terms of phsyiologically getting the best out of players.

Some clubs have started to cotton on though and have employed full time Strength and Conditioning coaches or Physiologists. I have no idea what the players do in training or if they are being given the most up to date scientific training methods. I don't know if MM or TB sit at night researching studies on the most effective training techniques - if they don't, then I hope thet have employed someone who does! Peter Davidson was S+C coach part time during the Brewster era, although I do think he got some things wrong as they appeared over trained at times. Richard Hastings brother was a fitness coach after him I believe, working as a gym instructor at JJB.

What professional football teams need (they do it in every other sport) is some one much more qualified. PhD level and an expert in Physiolgocial training. ICT used to have a sports psychologist named Donald McNaughton on the books part time. As a professional sports club they should aim to have an expert sport / exercise physiologist at the club as well. The job would be to work with and/or advise TB / MM on creating training routines that would best prep for performance AND strengthen the players in a way that decreases injury. i don't know if we have someone like that on our books. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't have as many injured players (certainly nothng could have been done abiut Doran and Hayes injury). But Gillet collapsing in agony at East End Park with a muscle injury? Maybe, just maybe with the right physiological training throughout the season, players would strenghten various phsyioloical factors and injuries like that would not occur. If Butcher is correct in using the injured players as an excuse, then the benefit of this is very simple. less injured players = higher up the table. Not being relegated would probably pay for the physiologists wage.

Edited October 21, 2011 by CapitalCaley

[PullMyFinger]

A full time PhD would cost as much as two players. As a fan why don't you approach the club and offer your services on a part time basis? There aren't many PhD's in the area I imagine.

[caleyboy]

For my Thesis I conducted a study on pre-match training methods for team sports and the physiological responses from it. There are plenty of studies published providing evidence of the best training methods / warm ups. Ten years ago, athletes of all sports were doing static stretches during warm ups. I'm sure you all had it in PE as a child. The teacher telling us to do our stretches. Within the last ten years or so, just about all the evidence points to static stretching as a warm up protocol increasing the chance of tears and strains and significantly reducing various performance factors such as repeated sprint ability and vertical jumping.

Football however is sgnificantly behind the times. Take any other sport in the UK - cricket teams have exercise physiologists working for them. If you play squash at a high level you have exercise physiologist, sport psychologist, dietician etc etc. In football however, the people that take the training are ex players turned managers. They may have football badges but no real scientific understanding of what they are doing in terms of phsyiologically getting the best out of players.

Some clubs have started to cotton on though and have employed full time Strength and Conditioning coaches or Physiologists. I have no idea what the players do in training or if they are being given the most up to date scientific training methods. I don't know if MM or TB sit at night researching studies on the most effective training techniques - if they don't, then I hope thet have employed someone who does! Peter Davidson was S+C coach part time during the Brewster era, although I do think he got some things wrong as they appeared over trained at times. Richard Hastings brother was a fitness coach after him I believe, working as a gym instructor at JJB.

What professional football teams need (they do it in every other sport) is some one much more qualified. PhD level and an expert in Physiolgocial training. ICT used to have a sports psychologist named Donald McNaughton on the books part time. As a professional sports club they should aim to have an expert sport / exercise physiologist at the club as well. The job would be to work with and/or advise TB / MM on creating training routines that would best prep for performance AND strengthen the players in a way that decreases injury. i don't know if we have someone like that on our books. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't have as many injured players (certainly nothng could have been done abiut Doran and Hayes injury). But Gillet collapsing in agony at East End Park with a muscle injury? Maybe, just maybe with the right physiological training throughout the season, players would strenghten various phsyioloical factors and injuries like that would not occur. If Butcher is correct in using the injured players as an excuse, then the benefit of this is very simple. less injured players = higher up the table. Not being relegated would probably pay for the physiologists wage.

Spot on cc but tell the muppets upstairs as they hold the purse strings which are seemingly getting tighter and tighter

[Renegade]

I mentioned a while ago but I'll mention it again, there's a guy called Steve Black that has become available. He's regarded as one of, if not the best fitness coach/sports physiologist in the world and it is true that his records for injuries sustained in football are excellent. He's worked with Newcastle, Sunderland, the Welsh Rugby Team amongst others and Johnny Wilkinson claims that he is the maestro of his career. His record speaks for itself and ICT signing him to the backroom staff could mean that the team on the pitch could be far better than a new player there would be.

[Tug]

I mentioned a while ago but I'll mention it again, there's a guy called Steve Black that has become available. He's regarded as one of, if not the best fitness coach/sports physiologist in the world and it is true that his records for injuries sustained in football are excellent. He's worked with Newcastle, Sunderland, the Welsh Rugby Team amongst others and Johnny Wilkinson claims that he is the maestro of his career. His record speaks for itself and ICT signing him to the backroom staff could mean that the team on the pitch could be far better than a new player there would be.

that would be amazing but the downside is i would imagine a man with a cv as impressive as that would probably cost more than most players we could afford ...as nice as it would be :)

[lukemackay]

i dont think we had a long enough pre season so players got rushed into being match fit and were over worked in time for the first game of the season causing injuries

simples

Edited October 21, 2011 by lukemackay

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

i dont think we had a long enough pre season so players got rushed into being match fit and were over worked in time for the first game of the season causing injuries

simples

And where does that omission / fault lie ? Why hasnt it happened to every other SPL team ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I mentioned a while ago but I'll mention it again, there's a guy called Steve Black that has become available. He's regarded as one of, if not the best fitness coach/sports physiologist in the world and it is true that his records for injuries sustained in football are excellent. He's worked with Newcastle, Sunderland, the Welsh Rugby Team amongst others and Johnny Wilkinson claims that he is the maestro of his career. His record speaks for itself and ICT signing him to the backroom staff could mean that the team on the pitch could be far better than a new player there would be.

that would be amazing but the downside is i would imagine a man with a cv as impressive as that would probably cost more than most players we could afford ...as nice as it would be :)

And how much have the injuries cost the club ? - in regard to loan signings etc. - plus a fitter squad means SPL consolidation, better performances, better crowds, more media attention - and what would that mean to the finances ?

Feck me - employ me and Capital Caley and we would be in Europe in at least two seasons.

[Tug]

I mentioned a while ago but I'll mention it again, there's a guy called Steve Black that has become available. He's regarded as one of, if not the best fitness coach/sports physiologist in the world and it is true that his records for injuries sustained in football are excellent. He's worked with Newcastle, Sunderland, the Welsh Rugby Team amongst others and Johnny Wilkinson claims that he is the maestro of his career. His record speaks for itself and ICT signing him to the backroom staff could mean that the team on the pitch could be far better than a new player there would be.

that would be amazing but the downside is i would imagine a man with a cv as impressive as that would probably cost more than most players we could afford ...as nice as it would be :)

And how much have the injuries cost the club ? - in regard to loan signings etc. - plus a fitter squad means SPL consolidation, better performances, better crowds, more media attention - and what would that mean to the finances ?

Feck me - employ me and Capital Caley and we would be in Europe in at least two seasons.

good point well presented.

[+DoofersDad]

All very interesting and an excellent post from CapitalCaley. But I wonder if another factor is whether, in our frantic search for promising players, we are taking risks on players who have a known injury problem. Take Tudur-Jones for example; he had a known and chronic knee problem before we signed him. His entry in Wikipaedia (must be true, then) states:-

On 19 December 2006 it was announced that Jones would be travelling to the United States to see surgeon Dr. Richard Steadman for a second opinion on his ongoing knee problem.

He is now sidelined with a knee problem. I don't know about others but that's just a thought.

Another concern is how long it is taking for players to come back from injury. Is it just me or do our players seem to be sidelined for significantly longer than players with similar injuries at other clubs?

[PullMyFinger]

If it was my work, they'd be back on reduced hours and light duties.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

All very interesting and an excellent post from CapitalCaley. But I wonder if another factor is whether, in our frantic search for promising players, we are taking risks on players who have a known injury problem. Take Tudur-Jones for example; he had a known and chronic knee problem before we signed him. His entry in Wikipaedia (must be true, then) states:-

On 19 December 2006 it was announced that Jones would be travelling to the United States to see surgeon Dr. Richard Steadman for a second opinion on his ongoing knee problem.

He is now sidelined with a knee problem. I don't know about others but that's just a thought.

Another concern is how long it is taking for players to come back from injury. Is it just me or do our players seem to be sidelined for significantly longer than players with similar injuries at other clubs?

We went in to panic mode didnt we ? - they are cheap and available - have a past pedigree but why would any club release such players with such rave potential ? - which could have been avoidable as CC expresses.

Lets face it - were we fitter and more disciplined under the Brewster fitness model ? - blend that with a proper coach and Terry's personality and charisma - with say Robbo in a senior position and Park as the trainer/coach ?

Wow - could that be what the Muirfield Mills Consortium are seeking ?

[Scarlet Pimple]

There is nothing to beat a self-hand-massage of the joints and muscles followed by a hot bath before heavy exercise. Sorted.

Now that's a warm up they will all look forward to (the hot bath I mean.)

And a lot cheaper than a fancy therapist who has a vested interest in "the more the merrier"-- unless he is on a large salary, of course.

Just a thought Terry.

[Sorted]

For my Thesis I conducted a study on pre-match training methods for team sports and the physiological responses from it. There are plenty of studies published providing evidence of the best training methods / warm ups. Ten years ago, athletes of all sports were doing static stretches during warm ups. I'm sure you all had it in PE as a child. The teacher telling us to do our stretches. Within the last ten years or so, just about all the evidence points to static stretching as a warm up protocol increasing the chance of tears and strains and significantly reducing various performance factors such as repeated sprint ability and vertical jumping.

Football however is sgnificantly behind the times. Take any other sport in the UK - cricket teams have exercise physiologists working for them. If you play squash at a high level you have exercise physiologist, sport psychologist, dietician etc etc. In football however, the people that take the training are ex players turned managers. They may have football badges but no real scientific understanding of what they are doing in terms of phsyiologically getting the best out of players.

Some clubs have started to cotton on though and have employed full time Strength and Conditioning coaches or Physiologists. I have no idea what the players do in training or if they are being given the most up to date scientific training methods. I don't know if MM or TB sit at night researching studies on the most effective training techniques - if they don't, then I hope thet have employed someone who does! Peter Davidson was S+C coach part time during the Brewster era, although I do think he got some things wrong as they appeared over trained at times. Richard Hastings brother was a fitness coach after him I believe, working as a gym instructor at JJB.

What professional football teams need (they do it in every other sport) is some one much more qualified. PhD level and an expert in Physiolgocial training. ICT used to have a sports psychologist named Donald McNaughton on the books part time. As a professional sports club they should aim to have an expert sport / exercise physiologist at the club as well. The job would be to work with and/or advise TB / MM on creating training routines that would best prep for performance AND strengthen the players in a way that decreases injury. i don't know if we have someone like that on our books. Maybe if we did, we wouldn't have as many injured players (certainly nothng could have been done abiut Doran and Hayes injury). But Gillet collapsing in agony at East End Park with a muscle injury? Maybe, just maybe with the right physiological training throughout the season, players would strenghten various phsyioloical factors and injuries like that would not occur. If Butcher is correct in using the injured players as an excuse, then the benefit of this is very simple. less injured players = higher up the table. Not being relegated would probably pay for the physiologists wage.

Spot on cc but tell the muppets upstairs as they hold the purse strings which are seemingly getting tighter and tighter

Once again the blame is deflected from the choices of TB and MM to the 'muppets' (assume you are trying to blame the board?).

Why?

Simply, Butcher is old school. He reversed all the fitness progress made under Brewster, abolished double sessions (instead preferring to leave his well played employees free to play golf or snooker, or spent the afternoon in the bookies), almost stopped the JJB fitness works and took the club backwards as far as I'm concerned. This is entirely his choice and nothing to do with money.

On being questioned about it he said if he can't trust his players to do their own gym work then he had a problem. Out of interest, name me any other professional sport where coaches adopt this attitude?

STOP TRYING TO DEFLECT BLAME TO OTHERS.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Sorted

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Once again the blame is deflected from the choices of TB and MM to the 'muppets' (assume you are trying to blame the board?).

Why?

Simply, Butcher is old school. He reversed all the fitness progress made under Brewster, abolished double sessions (instead preferring to leave his well played employees free to play golf or snooker, or spent the afternoon in the bookies), almost stopped the JJB fitness works and took the club backwards as far as I'm concerned. This is entirely his choice and nothing to do with money.

On being questioned about it he said if he can't trust his players to do their own gym work then he had a problem. Out of interest, name me any other professional sport where coaches adopt this attitude?

STOP TRYING TO DEFLECT BLAME TO OTHERS.

That was a solitary quote and this has nowt to do with the muppets - puts Caleyboys derisory quote in to perspective.

"From what I heard, Maurice Malpas does the majority of the training. I really do think we should leave training methods etc to those who know what they are talking about and by that I mean up to date methods not from the old days."

Perhaps the new warm up exercise is a relaxing drive through picturesque scenery.

[Charles Bannerman]

Ten years ago, athletes of all sports were doing static stretches during warm ups. I'm sure you all had it in PE as a child. The teacher telling us to do our stretches. Within the last ten years or so, just about all the evidence points to static stretching as a warm up protocol increasing the chance of tears and strains and significantly reducing various performance factors such as repeated sprint ability and vertical jumping.

I think that football as a whole has progressed a lot over the last decade or so in terms of attention to conditioning, nutrition etc and Craig Brewster certainly was at the forefront of that movement and I also had a few good discussions with Charlie Christie on the subject.

Getting the balance in football between the necessary fitness to last a 90 (120) minute game with random episodes of high intensity throughout whilst also maintaining the necessary skills and technical abilities is a huge task and different formats seem to work for different managers and teams. On the other hand I wonder if football players in general are regarded enough as individuals as opposed to being part of a group undergoing a "one size fits all" training strategy?

Certainly as an athletics coach with 35 years experience at all levels from primary schools up to Commonwealth Games and other major international champoinships, I don't envy football managers and coaches what is a very difficult task to balance.

I noted with interest the section of Capital Caley's post which I have quoted above. The extreme, almost Messianic fervour with which the "no static stretching" bandwagon was driven through sport a few years ago was intriguing and it was interesting to see the sheer intolerance accorded to anything other than complete agreement with this latest Holy Grail which was going to be the final saviour of sport. As with all its predecessor Holy Grails, this has not turned out to be the case any more than education's current Holy Grail, the Curriculum for Excellenece is going to be a final answer there. Basically this is someone's latest career enhancing bandwagon and the case has, as so often happens, been over stated.

I think the case against static stetching did have some merits with regard to LONG static stretches which understandably can fatigue muscle but I really don't see anything wrong at all with repeated shorter (5-10 sec) static stretches. Also, if this Holy Grail really had genuine Canine Testicle status, I would have thought that its implementation would have caused an instant drop in injury levels and increase in performance levels throughout sport - which I am not aware of having happened.

Edited October 23, 2011 by Charles Bannerman

[12th Man]

Train the brain,improve memory,alertness and reaction.

Swat up on football when resting and think about it when training.

Plan the win,instead of hoping for the win,learn some effective football katas, a 5 second free kick who goes where at speed and why, who bluffs. Influence the movement of the opposition,make them vulnerable, the goal is the - goal.

Its good to win with effort even better with knowledge.