Swapping tickets ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I am being really thick I fink but there is a lot of talk about being able to move around the ground at the moment. So what happens with these imaginary scenarios??

Mr A is in possesion of a Main Stand season ticket. Mr A asks to move to and sit in a free North Stand seat.

Mr A is offered a genuine North Stand ticket from Mr B whilst seated in the Main Stand. Mr A shows ticket to stewards and requests to move to the allocated seat in the Main Stand.

[SMEE]

Dont you..erm.......i mean Mr A get turfed out?

[Yngwie]

Those scenarios are a regular occurrence, and the answer is that Mr A can move as he wishes.

Mr M on the other hand......

[SMEE]

I am being really thick I fink but there is a lot of talk about being able to move around the ground at the moment. So what happens with these imaginary scenarios??

Mr A is in possesion of a Main Stand season ticket. Mr A asks to move to and sit in a free North Stand seat.

Mr A is offered a genuine North Stand ticket from Mr B whilst seated in the Main Stand. Mr A shows ticket to stewards and requests to move to the allocated seat in the Main Stand.

Mr A should makin his fookin mind up!!

He starts wi Main stand ticket but decides he wants to sit in North Stand. When he is offered a tick for North Stand, he shows the ticket to stewards and "requests to move to the allocated seat in the Main Stand"..........  :017:

Methinks he is already in the main stand is he not? :024:

Is Mr A mad?

[clacher_holiday2]

I dont want to sound unsupportive IHE but do we really need another topic on this!

For me, the biggest problem between yourself and the club is that they dont get your sense of humor.  The more you post about incidents happening on a match day the worse things will continue to get for you, rightly or wrongly!  Its your prerogative to post what you like, though the opportunity to sort things out once and for all will no doubt present itself over the coming weeks through communications with the club.

As has been posted elsewhere, an avenue has been created for those who wish to support you to do so, for now you should play their game and stop trying to antagonise Mike Smith or the stewards, or continue to take over this forum!

[caley100]

Whoooaa there clacher...moderator brainwash takes over eh?

Do you go running to to board with everthing that Johndo posts?

With the ticket issue and Johndo's behavior causing self inflicted wounds it has been a bad week for fans and board alike, we have a situation arising which will cause a further rift, with the trust running about like a wee Kissinger trying in vain to mediate.

The ticket thing has never been a problem in the past, i have moved seats quite often, but with largish numbers of fans moving to the back of G it will cause fans numbered seats to be used ( mine included)

The boards attempt at a singing section was not much more than a gesture, an attempt to keep people happy, this has backfired and a section of the bridge end must be organised for the noisy boys, putting them out in the open does not allow 'fringe' singers to join in, as many have stated they do.

It worries me that a chasm is opening between club and noisy fans, IHE being ejected is a worry as i feel this may not be the end of the issue, passionate football fans are part and parcel of football and they are needed and the board should recognise this.

[L_G]

I am being really thick I fink but there is a lot of talk about being able to move around the ground at the moment. So what happens with these imaginary scenarios??

Mr A is in possesion of a Main Stand season ticket. Mr A asks to move to and sit in a free North Stand seat.

Mr A is offered a genuine North Stand ticket from Mr B whilst seated in the Main Stand. Mr A shows ticket to stewards and requests to move to the allocated seat in the Main Stand.

Official answer - Tickets are not transferrable.  :024:

[Scotty]

It worries me that a chasm is opening between club and noisy fans,

widening would be my word  :symbol_exclaim01:

[the rest of this posting is made as a supporter and shareholder of ICTFC and not in any official capacity as site publisher/founder.]

Forget about the rights and wrongs for a moment, the he-said he-said conversations, or even the blame game - what is needed is constructive criticism and suggestions on how to put it right ............

The crux of the matter is that the club want to inflict the letter of the law on everyone (perhaps I should say SPL rules or SPL guidelines as they are not laws). It would seem that in the club's mind there is no room for any flexibility and yet the consistency in the application of these rules/guidelines between different sections of the stadium or even by different stewards is still not there. If the application of the rules across the board was consistent no-one could complain but quite simply it is not. It looks fairly evident (IMHO) that certain sections of the crowd, certain demographics and even certain individuals have been targetted for whatever reason and this is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I mean this as no slight to the current match commander, who - in his own area of specialty - has produced a healthy and excellent set of accounts, but to the best of my knowledge has no background in crowd control or security. He quite simply should not be put in a position where he has to deal with an aspect of the matchday that requires specialised training.

I have no idea what currently occurs in the control room, but if I were put in his position, then I too might err on the side of caution in applying the rules to the letter as opposed to someone such as John Sutherland who has had years of training and experience and can use all of that skill and knowledge as well as the rules to make sure things are done fairly, consistently and with at least a modicum of common sense.

The SPL's own guideline to clubs acknowledges that one aspect of dealing with "unacceptable conduct" is to work with supporters in identifying what is and is not acceptable and further suggests that this should go on continuously. The other parts are in preventing and dealing with incidents (which explains things like pro-active ticket checks and post-match stadium bans). The club do seem to be applying some of these guidelines, but I do not recall anyone "working with" supporters recently to identifyacceptable/unacceptable limits. Issuing statements or edicts is not "working with", it is "talking at" ....

The fans are not blameless either. We have seen it on here in recent weeks where some supporters think that "anything goes" and any attempt by stewards to apply rules and guidelines the club have agreed to abide by as part of their SPL membership, or things that are legitimate Health and Safety issues are met with claims of heavy handedness. There may have been some, but accept the fact that sometimes it is the fans' fault - like sitting on a wall, or in someone else's seat and getting pissed off when the person whose seat it is asks you to move. personally, I wouldnt have asked you, I would have horsed you off my seat (and then joined in with the singing !)

The end result - the club gets more and more officious in applying the rules, some fans get more and more belligerent in ignoring the rules and it reaches an impasse where we have bans, ejections, claims of heavy handedness by stewards, and counter claims of bad/drunken behaviour by fans .....

Both the club and the fans have to realise this is an issue that needs to be resolved. The current state of play is doing no-one any good. Here are my suggestions ....

1. (CLUB) : Employ a qualified security officer / match commander with the relevant experience.

2. (CLUB) : Ensure that this security officer actually holds a meeting with fans to discuss security and the guidelines and updates things continuously as suggested by SPL themselves. There doesnt have to be a meeting every time something minor happens, but they could perhaps have a column on the official website, they could comment on here if they wanted (Q&A sessions or forum), or they could hold meetings regularly with the trust. Work with the fans, dont talk at them.

3. (FANS) : Ask for (and hopefully receive) assurances that any and all policies will be applied consistently and fairly throughout the ground. This is crucial as there is nothing more galling than getting a hard time for something and then seeing large swathes of the away support being left alone to do the very same thing. "But they are doing it" may not be a valid excuse for bad bahaviour, but it does annoy you when you see it happening.

4. (CLUB) : Ask stewards to take a more common sense and customer oriented approach. Politeness costs nothing, and if you start off polite rather than agressive, the end result is frequently positive and confrontation-less. It wont always work and they may need to be more firm, but starting polite and moving to firm gives you a **** of a lot more options than starting firm or agressive and having nowhere to move to after that.

5. (CLUB) : if complaints come in about certain stewards, please investigate and make a decision based on the evidence. Do not automatically assume the steward is in the right because they are a steward ! Also - if you have promised a supporter that a particular steward "will never work here again", perhaps you should stick to that.

6. (FANS) : Realise that there are rules that the club has to work to and that they have no option but to apply them. If you are asked to sit down by a steward or the police, then quite simply you have no option but to comply as its in the rules. You may not like it (and we know most fans dont) but if you want to change the rules, then speak to the SPL or join one of the many campaigns going around - the club cant change it on their own.

7. (FANS) : Self-Police ! If someone is doing something dodgy thats going to bring the wrath of the stewards down upon the section then (collectively) have a word get them to stop doing it. Its far more preferable to organise/control the behaviour within ourselves rather than letting it get out of hand so that stewards/police become involved as that invariably leads to hassle, arrests and now, it would seem, automatic stadium bans. I am not saying dont enjoy - just realise the limits and dont try to push them quite so much ! If we can do this, the club may give us more leeway !

anyway - those are some of my suggestions - part based on my experience of dealing both with supporters and club officials and also part inspired by how the "U-Sector" group of fans at Toronto FC games liaise with the club and try to self-police themselves.

[clacher_holiday2]

Do you go running to to board with everthing that Johndo posts?

I dont have to, the board read these threads!

My post was advisory rather than dictatorial, written with my clacher_holiday2 hat on rather than the mod beret (which incidentally I havent worn yet!).. I did say "Its your prerogative to post what you like".

The original post by IHE is clearly attempting to gather support and to raise an issue hes directly suffered from with the club, I just dont think that now is the time or this website the place to be doing that.  The questions asked in his first post will be answered shortly by the clubs actions in their dealings with him and their actions at future games.  The more this is discussed and tensions are raised among the sites users, the less likely it is we will see a happy ending for IHE. 

Egos, injustice, stubbornness.. its all here and its a bad mix from all sides, not least from Mike Smith, who appears to be the main protagonist.  Johndo switching between the Martyr/Moron/Jester roles isnt helping his situation and I worry that younger fans who dont know any better will get dragged further into this mess, which will end in tears!

Best move would be for Johndo to discuss the events of the day privately with the club and supporters trust, not to keep mixing things up online!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Basically you are talking a load of feckin crap Clacher. How many posts have I made since Saturday!  :018:

I made this post DIRECTLY onto Anything Goes and made it hypothetical. I have discussed the situation directly with the club and the Trust, apologised, said my piece and that is private - put to bed. Anybody wants to ask me about it I will let them know - but will probably tell most - like you - to mind their own feckin business.

I was and still am genuinely confused as nobody has given me an answer - I have been given several different answers - perhaps Lg has now - but even that confuses me.

I am not trying to gain support - I have plenty of that - plus slaggers which is fair enuff given my behaviour was infantile. I have said all of that before.

So if you want to be of help - tell me what the feckin answer is ?

Oh and having a clear answer will prevent dificulties in the future and decisions are not one rule for one and one rule for another. But you are right with one thing - It is a clash of stubborn headed egos.  :001:

[CaleyD]

I'm certain that the rules on the back of the ticket only say something about you not being able to sell tickets for more than the face value.

The "Official Answer" given above does not make sense as this would not allow for situations where someone might purchase a ticket for a friend in advance and then get the money off them afterwards.  Also, what about all the corporate customers who buy blocks of seats and give out tickets to staff/clients...would that not be considered a ticket transfer?

I can find nothing (in writing) that states tickets are "non-transferable" either before or after entering the stadium.

[clacher_holiday2]

Anybody wants to ask me about it I will let them know - but will probably tell most - like you - to mind their own feckin business.

You know what IHE, thats the crux of the matter and the reason for my reaction, youre the one who started this topic and invited people like me to have my say... you didnt have to do that.

And as you have already said, your behavior on Saturday was regrettable, perhaps not infantile but certainly brash, you were about as subtle as a burning orphanage.  You have admitted that pushing things with the stewards was a mistake, well as far as I'm concerned youre pushing things on here now.  Not with Scotty or CaleyD who run the site or those who support/berate you, but with yourself, youre accountable for everything thats posted on here and attempts to belittle employees of ICT or their efforts to enforce the dodgy rules will have consequences. 

I'll quote masell why not- "Its your prerogative to post what you like, though the opportunity to sort things out once and for all will no doubt present itself over the coming weeks through communications with the club."

"The more this is discussed and tensions are raised among the sites users, the less likely it is we will see a happy ending for IHE. "

You post what you like, start the topics you like but as a member of this site I have the right to comment on anything you post.  If you dont want your situation discussed on here then contact a moderator and we can get every bit of it deleted, its your call.

[RiG]

I made this post DIRECTLY onto Anything Goes and made it hypothetical.

I first saw it on the Main Forum....

[Scotty]

I made this post DIRECTLY onto Anything Goes and made it hypothetical.

I first saw it on the Main Forum....

checked the logs - this post has not been modified/moderated or moved in any way. think the question is a legitimate one, but perhaps could have been added to one of the other threads about the incident.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

What a feckin surprise - clacher (listen to my intelligent moderator opinion  :rotflmao:) and Rig (please Sir - I saw it on the Main Forum - i think what Uncle Scotty is saying is you are wrong !!!  :012:) trying to have a pop and making themselves look like total feckin erseholes.  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: At least my posts arent figments of the imagination or as boring as feck.  :sillywave:

I asked a question on "Anything Goes" which as far as I am concerned has feck all to do with the Main Forum - I have no feckin intention at all at adding to the crap on there and the sooner it all goes the better - Is there a clear answer or not ? - stop prattling on and answer - if you can  :023:

And the only **** being egotistical and attention seeking on this thread is the lamentable clacher.  :029:

So stick to the topic or be tawts and have another boring go ??

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ANSWER ????

[clacher_holiday2]

The number of smileys says it all IHE.  How the **** can you accuse me of attention seeking after starting a topic like this.

This topic is the first I think I've seriously replied to regarding the stewarding at home games or how users on this site talk about it, I'm entitled to have my say aslong as those at the heart of the mess keep putting it up for us all.

The only thing thats been clear this past few months is that full stories rarely get posted on here, everybody gives their own slant on it all, its the nature of the bloody place and its hardly in the best interests of those who may end up with a day in court over matchday incidents to be saying anything online.

Like I've said its upto if it stays or goes, I wont touch it myself but if you dont want talked about in here then get in touch with a mod and ask them instead of playing up the victim role anymore.

edit:  Only difference between my posts from now and before having a mod thing under my name is I'm using Capital letters!

[PullMyFinger]

I am being really thick I fink but there is a lot of talk about being able to move around the ground at the moment. So what happens with these imaginary scenarios??

Mr A is in possesion of a Main Stand season ticket. Mr A asks to move to and sit in a free North Stand seat.

Mr A is offered a genuine North Stand ticket from Mr B whilst seated in the Main Stand. Mr A shows ticket to stewards and requests to move to the allocated seat in the Main Stand.

Can Mr A not ask the club to exchange his Main Stand season ticket for a cheaper North Stand season ticket? Allowing the club to sell said seat to other fans at a higher price  than the North Stand seat. Then everyone would be happy?  :tic01:

[L_G]

Prior to the game this ticket could have been changed if Mr A had thought for a minute that there would have been a problem. Never before am I aware of someone being moved for sitting in a seat which is worth less than the original. Random ticket checks seem to be here to stay so Mr A should always make sure he has a ticket for the correct area.  :003:

[RiG]

What a feckin surprise - clacher (listen to my intelligent moderator opinion  :rotflmao:) and Rig (please Sir - I saw it on the Main Forum - i think what Uncle Scotty is saying is you are wrong !!!   :012:) trying to have a pop and making themselves look like total feckin erseholes.  :rotflmao: :rotflmao: At least my posts arent figments of the imagination or as boring as feck.  :sillywave:

No one is having a pop. I thought I had seen it on the main forum and I still believe that it was there. A similar scenario existed with a post made by Smee (I think it was) recently. I thought the same thing had happened here.

I'm not going to get involved in your childish baiting. It's painfully evident what you are trying to achieve with this topic.

[Guest PartTimer]

Was Mr A at Parkhead last night by any chance? There was some serious steward baiting going on...  :023:

[+Wanderer]

Was it...Mr A, in the Drawing Room, with the lead piping...?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Thanks fer the serious responses - its still not clear though is it. And thanks fer the defensive responses that confimed my formulation. Plus RIG believes in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Oh - and I have never portrayed myself as a victim - I have owned up to being an embarrassed perpertrator.  In the aftermath I have simply thought - hang on what was all that about and sought some clarification :sillywave:

Smileys are the most effective wind up ever invented.  :001:

[Alex MacLeod]

Club Conditions state:

The ticket is ony valid if presented complete.............

Ticket holders are only authorised to use the seat indicated on the ticket and to use the official access and exit routes for that seat.

No mention on ticket of it being non-transferrable. I woud say the answer is to pre-empt a move and swap your ticket at the office prior to entry, if there is a desirable seat available, swap with another person prior to entry into the ground or at the very least see if you can swap before making the move in the first place and not after the event.

Bear in mind that when Johndo's ticket was first checked, and he was moved, he was likely clocked on camera by the match commander so, after being directed back to his proper seat, he would have been watched trying to re-enter the north stand.

[caley100]

Fair enough Alex, but i can only see this seat/ticket issue being a problem when its a capacity crowd and someone is sitting in your seat, when its a normal size crowd ie 4-5k no one gives a **** who sits where, unless your name is John Mackenzie and you like winding up stewards.

I used to pay at the gate for our first season in the SPL and never saw a seat no. on the ticket, i had presumed it guaranteed you a seat - any spare seat.

Anyway this whole thing is going nowhere, the issue behind the scene is where can the noisy section go in the Bridge end without causing bother to numbered seat holders.

[Kingsmills]

I've no problem with IHE opening a new thread on this subject on this board.

The fact is that the club as ticketing authority are entitled to dictate that a person remains in the area for which they have a ticket whether the ticket specifically states that on the face of it or not.

The fact of the matter is that in games with less than capacity crowds they have not enforced that right on the whole. However, it sems that hypothetical Mr A gave himself a high profile on a forum known to club officials and then played into the hands of those who were, probably unfairly, derermined to single him out by way of example and perhaps an element of revenge

In my opinion Mr A is well capable of making his point in a more circumspect and subtle manner anfd should endevour to do so in the future.