In your opinion, who is ICT's most Overated player of all time? I came up with this question, while replying to the John Rankin thread, and i would like to nominate him as my selection.....for now at least :P

APART FROM ANDY BARROWMAN WHO WAS NEVER RATED BY ICT FANS TO MY KNOWLEDGE!

Edited May 17, 201115 yr by SMEE

Oops....needed to adjust them to remove div 1

Barrowman - 15 starts, 20 sub appearances (+ 3 sub apps for Kilmarnock), 2 goals

Rooney - 43 starts, 21 sub appearances, 20 goals

Dargo - 55 starts, 4 sub appearances, 27 goals

You can check up the stats for yourself. Menu at the top right Team Info > Squad then use the filters to select what you want to look up.

The original question from Charles was with regard to Niculae/Rooney not Barrowman.

Niculae (according to soccerbase) 33 starts 2 sub (35) 8 goals in SPL ratio=0.22866

Rooney fom your figures has a ratio of 0.3125

Dargo is 0.4576 from your figures

Backing up my point that Marius was over rated. I'd like to see figures on goals/? spent on the player.

Marius by far was the most over rated, he has done hee haw since leaving, did very little when here.

While he came with a big reputation, that may have worked against him. He may have done "very little when here", but he was still our top scorer in his only season with the club. And since leaving, he's played another ten or so games for Romania, scored 13 in his first season with Dinamo and is now their club captain. Seems he's done alright for himself!

My info may be slightly out of date - seems he's been loaned out by Dinamo. But still, had a decent couple of years :P

http://scoutingromania.com/2011/01/05/the-rise-and-fall-of-marius-niculae/

For me, it's one of the departing players. But it just seems a bit mean to mention his name now so I'll keep schtum (if that's how schtum is spelt).

Adam Rooney obviously. OK so he's got a couple of goals (lucky deflections for the most part!) his lack of fitness and persistent injuries meant he was always unlikely to repay TB's faith in him.

Yet for some reason the fans adored him for the first-half against Dundee United in this season's opener. Downhill all the way from then eh Adam?

Any prospective new employer would be a fool to take a risk on the guy...but with 3 more years hard work in the highlands under the watchful stewardship of Terry & Mo, who knows, maybe he could make an impact.

Niculae, gave us what 10 or 11 goals?

Off topic so I apologise, but does anyone have "SPL goals per game" figures for Niculae and Rooney?

Barrowman - 15 starts, 20 sub appearances (+ 3 sub apps for Kilmarnock), 2 goals

Rooney - 70 starts, 30 sub appearances, 44 goals

Surely Rooney hasn't been around for 100 SPL league matches with us. Would be interesting to see Dargos and Rooneys ICT SPL record.

As for most over rated i wouldn't say Barrowman was over rated at all, he came from a 2nd division side and no one on here thought he was excellent. I always took a shining to Xausa whenever he played but always wondered if he was actually that good. He done well when signing for Livingston but soon dissapeared off the face of the planet.

John Robertson certainly over rated Darran Thomson in his time and he has to be our worst ever player.

This might come as a shock but i always thought David Bingham was massively over rated. Some games he would play terrible and yet still pick up the MOM awards. I did like Bingham but just thought there was a bit too much hype around him at the time.

Bingham was a great player for us contributed so much to the team and def an ICT legend,quite a few in the over rated category Richard Hastings for one don't get me wrong a decent hard working player but how many times i heard he would be moving to a bigger club and then nothing makes me think i wasn't the only one who thought he was overrated

Has to been Barrowman. He was scoreing for fun in division 2 and i think there was some expectation that he could do ok in the spl, not as well as division 2 obviously but maybe 10 goals in his 1st season. He never came close, the man is a donkey in front of goal and i am glad he went back over the bridge

Oops....needed to adjust them to remove div 1

Barrowman - 15 starts, 20 sub appearances (+ 3 sub apps for Kilmarnock), 2 goals

Rooney - 43 starts, 21 sub appearances, 20 goals

Dargo - 55 starts, 4 sub appearances, 27 goals

You can check up the stats for yourself. Menu at the top right Team Info > Squad then use the filters to select what you want to look up.

The original question from Charles was with regard to Niculae/Rooney not Barrowman.

Niculae (according to soccerbase) 33 starts 2 sub (35) 8 goals in SPL ratio=0.22866

Rooney fom your figures has a ratio of 0.3125

Dargo is 0.4576 from your figures

Backing up my point that Marius was over rated. I'd like to see figures on goals/£ spent on the player.

That'll teach me to try and do stats when half asleep

In regards goals/£ we actually made money on the Marius deal (although not as much as we maybe should have) whereas Barrowman/Rooney/Dargo will all have cost the club money to have them here.

Oops....needed to adjust them to remove div 1

Barrowman - 15 starts, 20 sub appearances (+ 3 sub apps for Kilmarnock), 2 goals

Rooney - 43 starts, 21 sub appearances, 20 goals

Dargo - 55 starts, 4 sub appearances, 27 goals

You can check up the stats for yourself. Menu at the top right Team Info > Squad then use the filters to select what you want to look up.

The original question from Charles was with regard to Niculae/Rooney not Barrowman.

Niculae (according to soccerbase) 33 starts 2 sub (35) 8 goals in SPL ratio=0.22866

Rooney fom your figures has a ratio of 0.3125

Dargo is 0.4576 from your figures

Backing up my point that Marius was over rated. I'd like to see figures on goals/? spent on the player.

That'll teach me to try and do stats when half asleep

In regards goals/? we actually made money on the Marius deal (although not as much as we maybe should have) whereas Barrowman/Rooney/Dargo will all have cost the club money to have them here.

We probably did make money from the deal but did I not read that Marius is chasing us for money? Signing on fee or a percentage of his transfer or something? It would be too deep to go into but I was thinking along the lines that Marius was costing us the club's highest wage ever and returned little by way of goals but Dargo and Rooney have scored more on smaller wages and signing on fees, Rooney costing us ?50 thousand transfer plus signing on fee would be a lot less than the reputed 100 thousand Marius is looking for. Too much to go into and only speculative figures make it more of a guessing game than fact.

Even if the club have/do end up paying out to Niculae, we'll still be in the black from the deal (including wages). Although we could well have blown any profit on legal fees (and some).

Barrowman was on a higher wage than Niculae (the ?4k a week was BS), was only slightly less in terms of signing on fee and we got feck all for him when he was ditched. I don't want to give any more detailed info on this as I'm not sure on the current state of play with courts and appeals and things and wouldn't want to land myself in bother by "leaking" what could still be information sensitive to the case.

No matter how you dissect it, Barrowman was the biggest financial mistake (player wise) that ICT ever made.

Even if the club have/do end up paying out to Niculae, we'll still be in the black from the deal (including wages). Although we could well have blown any profit on legal fees (and some).

Barrowman was on a higher wage than Niculae (the ?4k a week was BS), was only slightly less in terms of signing on fee and we got feck all for him when he was ditched. I don't want to give any more detailed info on this as I'm not sure on the current state of play with courts and appeals and things and wouldn't want to land myself in bother by "leaking" what could still be information sensitive to the case.

No matter how you dissect it, Barrowman was the biggest financial mistake (player wise) that ICT ever made.

True but the question was about over rated players, in that case when you consider the hype on signing him (think online petitions etc) and the reputation he came here with (once reputed to be valued in excess of ?1M) then Marius was by far the most over rated player at ICT and the very fact that at least one fan on this website is still singing his praises after returning only 8 SPL goals and two CIS cup goals against lower league opposition goes to show that some are still over rating him.

Barreowman was indeed a huge mistake but as the first post in this thread says, never really rated far less over rated by the fans. Apart from the week after our first competitive win over the Sheep.

I rate Niculae for what he did during his time here....although I do think some people had expectations of him that were far too high.

He may only have bagged 8 (league) goals, but he was responsible for assisting in many more and due to him being rated by the opposition he often found himself being double teamed which left gaps for others to exploit.

I would suggest that the mess surrounding his departure did more to damage his reputation/rating with the fans than anything else. I would also suggest that you can't rate a player based on cost, because if you do then Niculae will always come out at #1 because he's the only player we've ever made a profit on.

People will always rate different players for different reasons. What I see as being important part of their game, others may not and vice versa.

One thing that can't be argued is that it doesn't matter on which criteria you rate Barrowman, he always comes out bottom of the pile. Even if you only rated him as mediocre on his arrival he still cost the club the most and delivered the least.

Very good points, I never really rated Niculae but I will concede that his inclusion in the European championships raised the status of ICT and perhaps did us a few favours as far as attracting talent who would not normally have considered us as an option. I can't really agree on the point about assists and pulling off other defenders as I never really saw any of that but we all read the game differently and look at different things during the match, he may well have performed in the way you have indicated but in my opinion he was/is the most over rated player to pull on an ICT shirt, in general. Barrowman, I feel, was only ever rated by those involved in signing him for the club. Everyone else saw him for what he really was, a stand out striker playing full time against part time players, a mediochre striker in the second tier of the Scottish leagues and well out of his depth at SPL level.

Mark Brown

Uh?

There's a few for me really. Obviously the first one that comes to mind is Niculae. What a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that despite about a month over the turn of the year of 2007 to 2008 where he played fairly well, on the whole he wasn't really that good. At times he would show glimpses of class, but a good chunk of the time he either seemed uninterested, unfit, or simply not that great. Eight SPL goals isn't exactly a good record for an international SPL striker. In fact, that SPL record is only three more than Grant Munro got in all competitions in the season just finished! I certainly wouldn't rate him as high as Rooney or Foran.

Another obvious one is Dean McDonald. Loved by some sections of the support for some reason, despite the fact he was pretty terrible. All he did was wave at us!

Garry Wood was thought to be the next up and coming player, when in truth, he really wasn't that great. This could be said for Zander Sutherland too.

A controversial entry perhaps but Dennis Wyness is his second spell was absolute rubbish. IIRC he got one season a grand total of THREE goals! Getting rid of him was one of the few things Brewster got right!

Have to disagree about Phil McGuire and Andy Barrowman though. They were never rated by anybody!

Edited May 20, 201115 yr by Renegade

A controversial entry perhaps but Dennis Wyness is his second spell was absolute rubbish. IIRC he got one season a grand total of THREE goals! Getting rid of him was one of the few things Brewster got right!

That'll be the season he dislocated his shoulder and only played 16 games and got a handful of last minute sub appearances.

The 98 other goals he scored for us more than covers that minor blip....don't you think?

Just can't see past Barrowman for this particular award.

Guy Kerr

A controversial entry perhaps but Dennis Wyness is his second spell was absolute rubbish. IIRC he got one season a grand total of THREE goals! Getting rid of him was one of the few things Brewster got right!

That'll be the season he dislocated his shoulder and only played 16 games and got a handful of last minute sub appearances.

The 98 other goals he scored for us more than covers that minor blip....don't you think?

Well the majority of the other goals you mention where in his first spell when he was undoubtedly a fantastic player, but the second time round he was a mere shadow of his former self.

overrated

1 Dean Macdonald, for some reason he attained cult status very quickly yet as far as i can remember did very little on the pitch

2 Andy Barrowman, he came with a big deal of expectation yet largely failed to deliver. led to fans opinions dropping off pretty fast but would have to still include him for the initial hopes

i would probably not include any of the younger players such as Zander Sutherland ,Guy Kerr, Ian Vigurs ,as to be honest i dont think they were given the chance outside of the youth team to really prove they were worth it, unlike Macdonald who came into the first team

Richie Foran. He drifts in and out of games.

I'm not a good judge of a player because my only sighting of Barrowman was a pre-season friendly at Burnley 2 years ago and Burnley's promotion season. Of the players on view, I thought that Barrowman, who got Caley's only goal, was the only ICT player who would strengthen Burnley! As I said, I'm not a good judge of a player!

When I was at QOS, I picked out Hayes as the worst player on the pitch. He then dribbled through and either belted it in or put one on a plate for a team mate - bad memory!

Edited May 28, 201115 yr by LancsDave

Alan Hercher. The ball bounced off him into the net three times in our first ever league game and he became a fixture from then on. Seemed a lovely man, but a shambling, awkward footballer, even in division three.

Edited May 29, 201115 yr by Ice_G

I think Herchie had a fair bit of skill but was about 3 stone overweight - did you ever see him play before the SFL?