There are a few people on here saying us Brew bashers are off the mark and unreasonable.

So i thought i would create a thread for those of that persuasion to try and convince us we are wrong. Thing is.....you have to back your points up with FACTS...and not just opinons or beliefs.

Give us something to cling to. I honestly dont think there will be many replies to this!

Edited December 8, 200816 yr by SMEE

i leave others to interpret the data - those are just the numbers ...

the first table shows Brewster himself - all seasons, home/away, league/cup, the second shows all managers season-by-season percentages, and the final one shows all managers average over the total games managed for ICT.

I'm not Anti-Brewster, I'm Pro-ICT.

I'm Anti-Brewster, I'm Pro-ICT

That table's taken into account his first stint with us, not this stint which everyone's criticising. Also possibly his playing saved his bacon last time, he was very good at that

I think that is a very important point. I don't think many people would say that Brewster wasn't a great player and this helped him/us a lot in his first spell in manangement

Edited December 8, 200816 yr by stomach

That table's taken into account his first stint with us, not this stint which everyone's criticising. Also possibly his playing saved his bacon last time, he was very good at that

Well and last time round everybody (me included) slagged off the 'long-ball to Brewster' tactic.

Short memories!

Our fans have been spoilt by previous success IMO, we will never have another Pele, we can't expect to win every game, because we are no longer playing against lower division sides. We wont go through the majority of the season with a higher percentage of wins because we don't have the funding or fan base to compete with most SPL clubs. Brew has obviously realised that the only way the club can sustain is by bringing in our own crop of youth players and picking up players on smaller contracts from lower league clubs. He deserves credit because he has given these players the confidence to compete, however, because we have this inexperience in the team it will take time before we see the benefits.

I can't remember 1 season in the SPL when our manager hasn't had at least half our supporters asking for their resignation... and then hide behind the "we are all allowed an opinion" arguement. Yeh, we all have an opinion but some supporters show some responcibility by not jumping on the bandwagon to chase out another manager (why do you think Christie walked out?). It could be any other SPL manager at the helm and unless they pulled off a miracle I guarentee they would be subjected to the same abuse.

In short, we are an ungrateful support and there is nothing worse.

Our fans have been spoilt by previous success IMO, we will never have another Pele, we can't expect to win every game, because we are no longer playing against lower division sides. We wont go through the majority of the season with a higher percentage of wins because we don't have the funding or fan base to compete with most SPL clubs. Brew has obviously realised that the only way the club can sustain is by bringing in our own crop of youth players and picking up players on smaller contracts from lower league clubs. He deserves credit because he has given these players the confidence to compete, however, because we have this inexperience in the team it will take time before we see the benefits.

I can't remember 1 season in the SPL when our manager hasn't had at least half our supporters asking for their resignation... and then hide behind the "we are all allowed an opinion" arguement. Yeh, we all have an opinion but some supporters show some responcibility by not jumping on the bandwagon to chase out another manager (why do you think Christie walked out?). It could be any other SPL manager at the helm and unless they pulled off a miracle I guarentee they would be subjected to the same abuse.

In short, we are an ungrateful support and there is nothing worse.

Harry sorry I dont quite get that, if you think he is doing a good job you are been responsible but if you have a different opinion you think people are jumping on the bandwagon.

If you as a fan are happy with our form that is your choice but I am not jumping on any bandwagon when I say I am very concerned by our form

I can't remember 1 season in the SPL when our manager hasn't had at least half our supporters asking for their resignation...

Other than Sergei, I cannot remember "more than 50%" of our fanbase asking for the resignation of any of our managers with the exception of Brew. In fact, we were so loyal that the standing joke on the OffTheBall website where they had a "life expectancy" rating for managers was that it was more likely that someone would catch nessie than ICT would get rid of a manager.

Sergei - many wanted him gone, not sure % but it seemed fairly widespread.

Pele - The majority begged him to stay.

Robbo - The majority liked him I think, and were sad when he went.

Brewster (V1) - Most seemed happy with him, especially when ON the park.

Charlie - A few more dissenters, but dont think it ever reached 50%. Fan calls for his head were NOT the reason he quit.

Brewster (V2) - This is the most dissatisfied I have ever seen our fans and it is not restricted to this website.

i have to say the only way we are going to do anything this year we are going to have to get a new manager in,new ideas,new tactics,and a new vision for the club. Brewster was ok,not brilliant,just ok 1st time round ,then we seen how much he cared for ICT when he jumped ship at the 1st time of asking. Playing Barrowman as a lone striker is like playing kris boyd as a lone striker,totally pointless,penalty box players need to be exactly there,in the penalty box not 10 yards from the halfway line playing backward passes.only really good players can play the 4-5-1 effectivly, a-la Rooney,(Wayne), henry, etc.if we dont do something soon,i dont even want to contemplate where we will be at the end of the season

1) No he has not "proved" he can spot talent. Law of averages indicates that if you take enough folk on trial you'll occasionally come up with a gem.

Ryan Esson, Craig Dargo, Christian Kalvanes and Noel Hunt were not on trial.

Ryan Esson, Craig Dargo, Christian Kalvanes and Noel Hunt were not on trial.

OK, so if he's so good at spotting talent then explain Djebi-Zadi, McGuire, Barrowman, the possibility of signing Richie Byrne, the fact that he told Rankin he was surplus to requirements?

First, I don't think there's a "pro-Brew" camp as such, just some people who realise that the world is not black and white much as though the very evident "anti-Brew" camp would have us all believe.

There's a difference between something being defensible and wanting to defend it. For example, playing 4-5-1 is defensible (proven success for many teams), but I doubt many people want to watch it.

The problem is that the Board and many threads quickly become polluted with largely repetitous anti-Brewster postings to the extent that it's now barely possible to have a reasonable discussion about performances or tactics at all.

Here, then, are some facts in Brewster's favour:

1. Our league position is (at least) commensurate with our size as a club.

2. When he returned last season we were bottom, not having won. We comfortably avoided relegation (even without Gretna).

3. We have a young team being bloodied.

4. We have lost several matches by a single goal which a more battle hardened team (see 3) might have got a point out of.

5. He has, on the whole, brought in good players.

For some people the grass is always greener. For those suggesting Donald Park should return, do you not remember last season's match against Dundee United for which he was in charge and we lost comfortably 3-0. Saturday's performance (but not the tactics), and that against Hearts, had more to be encouraged about.

Spectre, an extremely sensible well put posting.

I've been saying this for a while, I'm not particularly pro- Brewster, but I think he's taking far too much abuse.

Our league position has hovered around 8th position for a good few years now and we're STILL there. I think non-ICT folk would laugh at the fact that ICT fans want Brewster out.

That saying, I'm not particularly happy with some of Brew's selections/tactics but imo he can't be sacked

Noticed the lack of ralph milne and Wyness Legend over the last couple of days...

Our league position has hovered around 8th position for a good few years now and we're STILL there. I think non-ICT folk would laugh at the fact that ICT fans want Brewster out.

Oh man, where are the ostrich smilies. We are currently 10th, we were 9th the season before, 8th the season before that and 7th the season before that ... can you not see the progression? Can you not see the excuses? can you not see he himself is now basically sticking two fingers up at the fans with comments like "The people in the crowd can make their own decisions, I am the manager and i've got to make the decisions for what I see best"?

Our league position has hovered around 8th position for a good few years now and we're STILL there. I think non-ICT folk would laugh at the fact that ICT fans want Brewster out.

Oh man, where are the ostrich smilies. We are currently 10th, we were 9th the season before, 8th the season before that and 7th the season before that ... can you not see the progression? Can you not see the excuses? can you not see he himself is now basically sticking two fingers up at the fans with comments like "The people in the crowd can make their own decisions, I am the manager and i've got to make the decisions for what I see best"?

I don't understand why some people can't see their on a down hill slope when they start moving faster

Our league position has hovered around 8th position for a good few years now and we're STILL there. I think non-ICT folk would laugh at the fact that ICT fans want Brewster out.

Oh man, where are the ostrich smilies. We are currently 10th, we were 9th the season before, 8th the season before that and 7th the season before that ... can you not see the progression? Can you not see the excuses? can you not see he himself is now basically sticking two fingers up at the fans with comments like "The people in the crowd can make their own decisions, I am the manager and i've got to make the decisions for what I see best"?

I don't understand why some people can't see their on a down hill slope when they start moving faster

I, for one, was not one of the anti Brewster section and was prepared to give him a chance for various reasons. These included the biggest rebuilding job on the team since Pele took over and the fact that younger players were at last being blooded. He also seemed to be gaining in experience with the use of his substitutes and was showing more passion than previously. However..........along came Saturday's game. It was obvious from 5 minutes in that Duff was struggling at right back and should have been swapped with Proctor. It was also obvious that Barrowman cannot play the lone striker role so why oh why was he played there. Subs should have been made earlier than they were and we should have had a real go much earlier after we had gone behind. To cap it all, Brewster and Thompson stood looking as they were totally lost as to what they could do and really looked like they had given up. There main function seemed to be to clap their hands and encourage the team!.

I now think he has to go as he seemed disinterested for the first time this season at home. Maybe he knows if he doesn't get results, he will be sacked. I sincerely wish him well if he does go but we need to make a change very soon. As for our DOF talking about offering Brewster a new contract, if that is the calibre of our DOF, then he needs to follow him out the door as well. Mind you it could be a case of the board/chairman publicly backing the manager and you know what usually happens after that!!

Noticed the lack of ralph milne and Wyness Legend over the last couple of days...

RiG

Personally been away but have been watching with interest. To be honest most of the stuff thats getting spouted on here is not even worth replying too either because its innacurate or total bollocks!!.

Yes people are upset because Barry Wilson is getting released, its a shame but heh life goes on,decisions have to be made and nobody stays forever and someone (i.e. the manager) gets the flak.

The big picture needs to be look at here, if you step back and look at what is happening, this is a major re-building that will take time.

Knee jerk reactions will not help and the board will not have any!

I noticed its been quiet too, the Immortal Hairy One or whatever it is has been absent also. Maybe he's seen the bigger picture also !

Ralphie

Our league position has hovered around 8th position for a good few years now and we're STILL there. I think non-ICT folk would laugh at the fact that ICT fans want Brewster out.

Oh man, where are the ostrich smilies. We are currently 10th, we were 9th the season before, 8th the season before that and 7th the season before that ... can you not see the progression? Can you not see the excuses? can you not see he himself is now basically sticking two fingers up at the fans with comments like "The people in the crowd can make their own decisions, I am the manager and i've got to make the decisions for what I see best"?

Scott, as I've said before on numerous occasions, I'm not actually totally convinced with Brewster, this time around.

Incidently, I was first time around, really thought he took ICT as far as anyone could.

It seems though that if one isn't being hypercritical of Brewster on this site, then you're deemed to be a Brewster sympathiser.

I'll say again how I feel regarding the situation. ICT are currently sitting in 9th (not 10th as you state), we finished 9th last season we normally finish in 8th, bar season 2005/06 when we got a very creditable 7th (Brewster was in charge for the majority of that season incidently)

Yes, I think Brewster has made mistakes this season, personally though I don't think that a sacking is warrented. As well as this he's had to contend with losing the experience of Niculae, Rankin and himself. I feel that given a wee bit more time he'll improve.

Incidently I don't hear the clubs fans below us want their managers out e.g. Motherwell with McGhee (who was the popular choice for Scotland manager last year. St.Mirren with Gus Mac Pherson or Billy Reid at Hamilton

I aint been posting cos it is the same old posts over and over again. I find it absolutely unbelievable that anyone can even contemplate defending Brewster when his tactics and selections are totally abysmal. The management of the club have also got a lot to answer for.

Brewster is destroying this club - fans will turn away in their hundreds becos we are simply terrible entertainment with a feckin clown pulling the strings.

I aint been posting cos it is the same old posts over and over again. I find it absolutely unbelievable that anyone can even contemplate defending Brewster when his tactics and selections are totally abysmal. The management of the club have also got a lot to answer for.

Brewster is destroying this club - fans will turn away in their hundreds becos we are simply terrible entertainment with a feckin clown pulling the strings.

So, what you sayin then Johndo....? dya think it's maybe best if Mr Brewster left the club ?

comments in red

Scott, as I've said before on numerous occasions, I'm not actually totally convinced with Brewster, this time around. Incidently, I was first time around, really thought he took ICT as far as anyone could. It seems though that if one isn't being hypercritical of Brewster on this site, then you're deemed to be a Brewster sympathiser.

Fair enough. I am not convinced either and I too had a better opinion of him first time round but as many have said, it was felt that Brewster the manager was helped HUGELY by Brewster the player .... and NO-ONE that I can remember on here has questioned his ability as a player.

I'll say again how I feel regarding the situation. ICT are currently sitting in 9th (not 10th as you state), we finished 9th last season we normally finish in 8th, bar season 2005/06 when we got a very creditable 7th (Brewster was in charge for the majority of that season incidently)

You could argue 9th or 10th - I have seen it displayed both ways but as Motherwell have a game in hand, and the same goal difference, lets not argue about it and say 9th=

Yes, I think Brewster has made mistakes this season, personally though I don't think that a sacking is warrented. As well as this he's had to contend with losing the experience of Niculae, Rankin and himself. I feel that given a wee bit more time he'll improve.

He didnt have to contend with Rankin, he (allegedly) caused it. I would agree he had little control over the Niculae situation and the end of his own playing career. Depending on your point of view, he has however overseen the loss of a few other players and an exodus of a few more come January/June if some rumours come true. (i will concede that these are currently rumours and not fact).

The final straw for me is Barry. He gave him a 6 month deal with a view to proving he was worth the full season. How exactly has Barry been able to show he is worth it by picking splinters out of his **** from sitting so long on the bench. He then comes out in the press saying he needs a new Barry Wilson so is cutting loose the old one. Might it not be an idea to keep the old master while you choose the new apprentice? It smacks of cluelessness to many of us.

Incidently I don't hear the clubs fans below us want their managers out e.g. Motherwell with McGhee (who was the popular choice for Scotland manager last year. St.Mirren with Gus Mac Pherson or Billy Reid at Hamilton

I think there is an element of that but other teams do not concern me. ICT have always been a team based on spirit and togetherness, and renowned as a team that could play good football on the deck. We also had a pretty decent record in our home stadium. That is ALL gone right now and I personally do not believe he can get it back.

I am not anti-Brewster, but if he cannot turn this round and do it quickly (ie. by Christmas) then for the good of ICT I believe he should go. I have no axe to grind with the man personally, it is my passion for ICT that makes me feel like this and when I feel my own passion waning and see or hear the comments of other passionate supporters with a similar viewpoint then its time for a radical shakeup.

Noticed the lack of ralph milne and Wyness Legend over the last couple of days...

RiG

Personally been away but have been watching with interest. To be honest most of the stuff thats getting spouted on here is not even worth replying too either because its innacurate or total bollocks!!.

Yes people are upset because Barry Wilson is getting released, its a shame but heh life goes on,decisions have to be made and nobody stays forever and someone (i.e. the manager) gets the flak.

The big picture needs to be look at here, if you step back and look at what is happening, this is a major re-building that will take time.

Knee jerk reactions will not help and the board will not have any!

I noticed its been quiet too, the Immortal Hairy One or whatever it is has been absent also. Maybe he's seen the bigger picture also !

Ralphie

cant believe wat ive just read! yeah re-building but at this rate we aint have a team that will hold its own in the 1st division. The board will buckle with pressure from the growing unrest. It was tense on sat and if we dont manage any points this sat then the home game wi the dons goana b lots of protests at both brew n the board. :thumb04:

Edited December 9, 200816 yr by Brewnoclue

OK, here goes!!

With Gretna out, new season, new players for teams, etc, it is only right that we should look at this season in isolation to get a balanced view. (ie the tail end of last season was bottom six playing each other and maybe experimenting with formations/young players for the coming season, so this could affect the true picture and of course, Gretna being Santa Claus to us all)

However here is my offering.

Home record - pure rubbish - 12/12 - 5 points

Away record - not so bad- 3/12 - 12 points ( only Walter and Gordon have more away points than BREW)

This is not a Pro Brew reply BUT it does balance up the stats!!

It also proves we are in a tight wee league.

My question therefore looking at the above FACTS - do we sack him for his home record or try to keep him for his away record?

There's no point winning a handful of away games if you can't win at home and give fans an escape from their everyday lives, this is what I believe drives us all to follow ICT. If we don't get value for money at home how can we attract the next generation of fans to TCS? That is what bothers me more than anything.

ICT, Give us something to be happy about!

FTAO Scotty

I'll no' quote all that lot in order to save some space ! :thumb04:

To be honest I can't argue with any of your comments, they're all pretty valid, in particular the fact that Brew the boss is suffering from not having Brew the player.

I just feel that Brewster's sacking is perhaps a little premature, but then again I may be wrong

I can't pretend that I'm not getting swayed by the majority, however one thing I hate about modern day football is the ridiculously short time managers are given to basically form their own teams at clubs, the Alex Ferguson situation at Man. Utd in '89 springs to mind.

The St .Mirren game may not look like a biggie on paper to the average punter but for Brew it's looking like WEMBLEY

FTAO Scotty

I'll no' quote all that lot in order to save some space ! :thumb04:

To be honest I can't argue with any of your comments, they're all pretty valid, in particular the fact that Brew the boss is suffering from not having Brew the player.

I just feel that Brewster's sacking is perhaps a little premature, but then again I may be wrong

I can't pretend that I'm not getting swayed by the majority, however one thing I hate about modern day football is the ridiculously short time managers are given to basically form their own teams at clubs, the Alex Ferguson situation at Man. Utd in '89 springs to mind.

The St .Mirren game may not look like a biggie on paper to the average punter but for Brew it's looking like WEMBLEY

The difference is that Brewster inheritted an excellent team and is destroying it before our very eyes and playing the team in bizarre positions and formats. Alienating our best talent and running rough shod over the rest. I'm the boss do what I say or you're out. 5H1T manager and deffo not a leader.

Get him to FLICK out of ICT so he can't inflict any more damage.

I aint been posting cos it is the same old posts over and over again. I find it absolutely unbelievable that anyone can even contemplate defending Brewster when his tactics and selections are totally abysmal. The management of the club have also got a lot to answer for.

Brewster is destroying this club - fans will turn away in their hundreds becos we are simply terrible entertainment with a feckin clown pulling the strings.

So, what you sayin then Johndo....? dya think it's maybe best if Mr Brewster left the club ?

Ya see - I cant even bother replying cos even that is feckin boring.

Our home record - P19 W4 D4 L11 F25 A25 PTS16

Our away record - P17 W5 D1 L11 F16 A29 PTS16

So in the whole of 2008 (so far at least) we have won a total of 9 games?

Out of interest how many of these were against Gretna?

Pro-Brewster or not, surely this is just not good enough.

Are there folk who think it is?

This equates to 1 win a month.

Anyway you look at it surely this isn't acceptable?

22 defeats, christ we are rubbish..............under brewster and the noddy dog.