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Celtic may have beaten us 4 -2 on the park but their supporters beat us 10 - 0 on the terraces. Surely we must have the worst home fans in the league and you can see how badly it affects the team; they are scared stiff of making mistakes and receiving a torrent of abuse from the so-called support. In the match thread I said I think the players lack confidence and to be honest, a significant part of that is that they are worried about getting abuse when things don't go right. The crowd do precious little to lift the team but plenty to let the team know that they do not meet the fan's often unrealistic expectations. Take two examples from today. One of the guys sat next to me got to his feet after Celtic's 2nd goal and let rip with a tirade of vitriolic abuse aimed at Terry Butcher. When we scored our goals he simply sat in his seat and didn't even clap. He generally mumped and moaned about what was on display and never once as far as I was aware clapped or uttered any words of encouragement. And amongst the general moaning behind me were comments during a passage of play when we were keeping possession well but not making progress. "F***ing do something with it" was the shout from behind. No sooner had that advice been given than Morrison, I think it was, tried to put the ball over the defence for Andrew Shinnie to run on - it nearly came off but was well cut out and the same voice shouts out, "for f***'s sake don't give it away!" Just what do these people want and expect? We're not Barcelona and if we try anything other than the safe ball it will come off less often than it doesn't. Today we were up against the league champions and their side is stuffed with internationals and sometimes balls don't find their intended target because very good defenders read the situation and do their job well. Let's give them credit for that. And let's give our team credit for trying to play football against Celtic rather than being boring like County and simply stopping them playing and having no ambition. Do these people ever stop to think about what the impact is on the players? Presumably not. How do they think that players feel when they hear more noise in shouts of frustration and abuse when they make an error than they hear in applause and shouts of encouragement when they play a 30 yard pass inch perfect to a team mate? Well, it doesn't make them feel confident and appreciated that's for sure. Believe me, I get just as frustrated as anyone, even angry, when players make basic errors but I respond by silently cursing to my self, rolling my eyes or shaking my head or the like - I don't voice my feelings at the player but will make a point of clapping and shouting encouragement when they next get the ball and use it well. This thread is about small crowds and the concern that some folk no longer come to watch the team. To be honest, it would be a good thing if some who still come along on a Saturday afternoon started staying away. That might mean that those who actually support the team might have more of an influence on the mood of the crowd as a whole and the team will respond to a more positive atmosphere in the ground. That in turn might encourage others to start supporting the team and take the place of the moaners. Now I expect there will be those who will have a go at me saying that they pay good money and can expect to see better entertainment and have a right to make their views known. I would agree with that but the way to do that is to express your views on this forum or directly to the club if you are that angry. On match days, the players really need the support and encouragement of the fans and it really makes me angry that so many who turn up seem to do their best to abuse and discourage the team. They fail to understand that far from venting their anger at what they see as the problem, they are actually part of the problem themselves. I think I am right in saying there are signs at the gates referring to "home support". That is for peope who will support the home team, not people who apparently want the home team to win but who abuse rather than support them. Perhaps there should be signs at the gates directing those who are going to shout abuse at the home team to the South Stand because the only team that benefits from the way some of the paying customers in the main and North stands behave is the away team. Apologies for the length of this rant but I really am getting well and truly p***ed off by the behaviour of some of the people who pay to watch our team but who undermine the confidence of the team and ruin the matchday experience for others. By all means criticise the team as much as you want on this forum but for Christ's sake, on a match day give the team what they so desparately need - support! How f***ing difficult is that?

It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned Munro and Tokely. It was also only a matter of time before someone compared our performance with them over the bridge last week. Can we please GTF with this rubbish and start supporting the team. They (T&M) are gone and they (the tinks) are not us. If you want munro and tokely, begger off over the bridge with them. I for one am staying put and will forever continue to support Inverness Caledonian Thistle through the good and the bad times. The start of yesterdays match was the worst I have seen since we went 4-0 down to Livingston inside 20 minutes in our Second Division Promotion season. The performance was worse than that of Dundee United last term, or indeed since anything of the second Brewster era. Yet I plan to make as many games, home and away, to support the team. I would love to have a season ticket and be there every week. Unfortunately, unforeseen circumstances and expences prevented me from doing so so close to the start of the season. So if you feel you've had enough (already, after 2 games at home) want to hand over yours, feel free to fire it my way. Thanks.

Don't get me wrong I'm partial to a moan or two but the only time I shout out effing and blinding is when it's directed at the ref. Some of our fans are absolute beauts though some guy kept shouting 'Get him off Butcher' (I think it was directed at King) I really did want to point out to this guy that we had already used our three subs! What I don't get either are these folk who after TWO home games are already saying if the team/club/manager doesn't do X,Y & Z. Then that's it I'm throwing my season ticket in the bin. C'mon FFS have a word with yourself. What's next? 'If I go to the food stall and there are no macaroni pies left I'm never going to go back' or 'If the stadium announcer doesn't play more songs I like I'm never coming back'? For the love of Jeebus we must have the most fickle fans in the league. That said yesterdays performance was pretty rank overall.

Munro and Tokely? The centre-back partnership at the end of our relegation season, one of whom got himself red-carded early on in the final, must not lose, game against those giants of world football, Falkirk.

I disagree. The youngsters will get their chance but I think the manager needs to pick what he thinks is his strongest attack minded team available for this one. There are 3 reasons. We have yet to have a win in the league this season and there is a need for more time for the players to gel and particularly for the defence to gel. We are creating chances and scoring but are shipping too many. Get that right and we could win a lot of matches this season. Now is not the time to mess around with the side. There is also no point in giving players a "rest" because there is a weeks international beak after the Motherwell match. Linked to that is the need for team to get the confidence of a good win to get some momentum going. We need our best players playing well to acheive that. We should not under-estimate Arbroath - note that the Rangers were held by Berwick today and after 3 games are only 4th. Getting a win and hopefully by 2 or 3 goals or more should do wonders for morale. And as many have been saying on this forum, we need a decent cup run, both to ignite some momentum of support but also to help with our difficult financial situation. It may only be Arbroath but this is an important game for the club and we need to approach it with as much seriousness as if it was a crunch league game.

As I stated I just posted what I thought I saw. Wasn't involved so obviously don't know the whole story. However, whether the club like it or not, there is a perception that the home end is treated differently to the away end on certain occasions. Old ladies are not allowed to take their umbrellas in, water is confiscated, small kids are told they have to remain seated etc and we can all see the up the other end the whole support is bouncing and the walkways are nowhere to be seen. Maybe rules are rules but IMHO this is putting folk off coming to certain games. Btw I am not saying that fans are totally blameless or shouldn't take responsibility for themselves.

Can I just check that you guys are watching the same games as the rest? Majority of people I have spoken to this season are delighted with the way the team is playing and despite yesterdays result are fairly upbeat. What appears to putting more people off than anything else is having to listen to small groups and individuals who seem to think we should be walking every match and are on the players/managers back, moaning, booing or shouting crap at the slightest thing.

Is this another reason why folk don't to games any more? One our fans gets ejected for having a smoke whilst at the other end, the septic fans are standing, jumping about and then doing stupid Polish huddle across the whole stand. One rule for one and one for the other.

We've lost an been humped many a time with Munro and Tokely in the team by the old filth. Now they are gone when we enevitably get humped by them without them, it seems people are saying with them we wouldn't of got humped. Bewildering.

Reguero Meekings Warren King G. Shinnie Morrison OTJ Pepper Whyte Polworth Sutherland

Royal Mail shocking service mail at 358pm on a sat afternoon and stagecoach not far behind both never on time or no show

I do think that this is a factor in dropping home attendances at the OF games personally. Whatever happened it seemed a bit heavy handed as there were 2 stewards and 2 polis talking to the guy whilst 2 another 2 stewards and 2 police watched on from the walkway.

Spot on D. D. couldn't aggree with you more and that is why a lot of real fans stay away from games. Is it any wonder Butcher loses the head with the crowd when at home.....The only real backing the team gets seems to come from these great travelling supporters we get when away from home, few they may be but they get behind our players and the noise of encouragement (not abuse) is always audible and great to hear. I always wish I was with them. When on rare occasions i get to home games I am always dismayed by what I dont hear and further dismayed by what i do hear. Great post D.D. I hope it hits home.................but I very much doubt it will because of the mentality of certain idiots. They should be in a section of their own, preferably under the Kessock Bridge.

Hello down there!

Honestly. What did you expect us to get today? I'm intrigued. If you think that we could get a result at a kanter against Celtic then your deluding yourself. Their a team of full internationals. We are a team of promising youngsters and youth internationals. It is literally a case of men vs boys when we play them.

Ask yourself this, was he disappointed at being subbed or at himself? You've hardly seen him. If your not going to give the team a chance give me your season ticket. Il give it to someone who will support the team.

It is easy to be critical of players after seeing them perform below expectations in just a handful of matches. Match day situations are different from the training ground and players who show great ability in training can take some time to adapt. I have seen Raven in the 2 home league games and he has not impressed, but rather than slate the lad I think he should be given his chance if the management team feel his showing on the training ground justifies his place in the starting line up ahead of Meekings. But sometimes, no matter what coaches see day in and day out on the training ground, that form never translates itself to the match day situation and you just have to accept that something different has to be tried. Surely we are that stage with the way MacKay and Sutherland are played and it is worrying that Butcher persists with this. Remember when he first came here and persevered with Barrowman when Rooney was clearly a far better option on match days. It must be frustrating for coaches when players who shine on the training ground perform poorly on matchdays. Equally it can be exasparating (in a nice way) when players who are nothing special in training do much better in matches. The skill is recognising these situations when they arise and responding positively to them. The concern with Butcher is that he seems to be too stubborn in persisting in what he thinks should work rather than recognising what actually does work. Raven maybe just needs a few more games to adjust to the SPL before things click with him. If things click then perhaps in a few months time we will have everyone on this forum saying he must be offerred a new contract. We are shooting ourselves in the foot if we slate him and discourage him before he has had a real chance to prove himself. Let's have a bit of faith in the judgement of the management team and if Raven continues in the team for a few more matches, give him support to help him boost his confidence.

Maybe he opened a bottle of Evian water.

Right, so if he starts again, plays well and we win 3-0, you'll bin your season tickets. Just checking!

Like others I didn't expect us to beat Celtic but I did expect a performance where we would actually compete for the ball and show some desire and hunger. Instead we looked like the proverbial rabbits caught in the headlights. No guts about us at all and no-one capable of putting in a crunching tackle. Raven is way out of his depth. Foran and Jones were equally culpable today, their stupidity cost us big time as we had no midfield and let them run all over us. Who was the captain today because he didn't show himeself when we needed him? Was it Esson who was captain? I also have a big gripe about the programme insert today with both Butcher and Foran having a pop at our support. If they learned the basics of entertainment then they could provide a product that would attract a support. I only bought it for the team sheets and even that was garbage as the Celtic goalscorer Watt wasn't mentioned and I am sure we had a number 40 on our bench but the insert doesn't name him.

Have faith - BELIEVE

It was'nt me

What on earth are you on about? I'd say there was about 200-300 there today, plus Derek Riordan. EDIT: You got your info from my mate on Twitter who was joking with you when you asked him the travelling support but as long as it made you feel better.

Today's performance was the most dominant I have ever seen from them against us up here. many players who I didn't recognise who obviously wanted their chance to make an impression on their manager with the possibility of champions league games coming up. I didn't expect us to win, but didn't expect us to lose such early goals - which puts us up against it straight away. I'm more confident with this squad than last season's and think that we will more than hold our own with a young inexperienced team. I think Butcher is a very stubborn manager and i worry that he is going ruin Sutherland. he has been played out of position so often and he looks a broken player with no confidence. Such a shame to see a young talent looking that way. Meekings has to be our first choice right back. But anticipating that Butcher stickes with shane and raven, i will bet that will will be the first two taken off in our next game. Doran flatters to deceive in my opinion. He looks promising, has talent and vision but looks so unfit. The main thing that concerns me is that some things continued from last season - sending offs, conceding late or early goals and penalties. On a plus note, County may be above us at the moment but they have only scored two goals this season, neither of which have come from open play whereas we have scored 7, and had to play with ten men on two occasions. Forget the Celtic match - let's see what's next.

HI EVERYONE , IT`S JUANJO CARRICONDO HERE .... LIKE I TOLD MARK A FEW DAYS BACK WHEN HE MAKE ME AWARE ABOUT THE NEWS OF MY NAME IN YOUR GROUP I TOLD HIM STRAIGHT AWAY THAT IT'S AN HONOUR FOR ME THAT YOU PUT MY NAME AS THE AWAY FANS SUPPORTERS GROUP. I HAD MANY,MANY GREAT MEMORIES IN MY TIME IN INVERNESS AND TO HAVE MY NAME IN YOUR GROUP IS SOMETHING THAT MADE ME VERY HAPPY AND PROUD. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS HONOUR AND I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST IN THIS NEW SEASON I HOPE OUR LIVES COME ACROSS SOMEHOW IN THE FUTURE UP THERE IN INVERNESS. SPEAK SOON GUYS THANKS

Just my tuppence worth as I believe in independence but acknowledge that it's not the majority view. The debate on independence in Scotland is a fairly mature one and has been vigorously waged since I was a student in the 70s and long before that. Sadly, in England the debate is in its infancy (people seem to take it as a personal insult that Scots should want to rule themselves and often Nationalists are described as 'the BNP with kilts') and therefore Laurence, my friend, you have bitten off more than you can chew here. It's no use introducing a political argument, accusing everybody who disagrees of being brainwashed and then throwing the toys out the pram. Just read back some of the personal insults you have dished out to Alex Salmond and anybody who has the temerity to agree with him. Unfortunately you are displaying a colonial attitude and I believe like many people who move to Scotland for 'lifestyle' reasons you have discovered it is not some mystic brigadoon, but a real living nation where people are born, work, eat, fornicate, die. We are not simpletons: we are more politicised than where you come from: just a fact of life. I'm afraid it is indeed scaremongering to tell people horror stories about being cut off from their relatives. Just imagine saying that to a native of Belgium, Netherlands, Sweden or Switzerland where people move freely between borders. Documents released under the 30 year rule have shown that our own (British) government lied to us about the benefits of oil, in order to downplay the whole thing. So why won't they 'let us go'? Simple. Nowhere to keep the missiles. The Americans wouldn't like it. P.S. I know for a fact that teachers in Ireland enjoy better salaries and holidays than teachers in Scotland or the rest of the UK. So do teachers in many other democratic European nations who have the political will. P.P.S. Amazon are in Scotland and in many other nations: why assume the books come from England?

Can we find a negative word to replace "unionist' then? I mean it's only fair. Obviously some people would say 'feartie' but I genuinely believe that to be unfair. Something along the lines of 'better the devil you knowist'. CB, obviously we've crossed swords in the past and I respect most of the points you (rather aggessively) make whenever this issue is raised. However I don't see where you get 'declining minority' from. Minority yes, and even over certain time scales you can show that support for INDEPENDENCE has fluctuated, but the fact that the Nats have now shown themselves capable of being trusted with government is, at the very least, consolidation. There's no sign yet of them losing the next one either. Even without Salmond they would have a stronger team than Lamont & co.

I get parcels delivered from Germany every other week and the postal cost is on a par with similar sized packages which I get from within the UK (North and South of the border). I see no reason why we should expect to see a rise in postage costs between Scotland and England should independence be achieved. We're not throwing up any walls/fences and border control and we're not talking about the implementation of any border control or customs services between the countries. Nothing to suggest any need for increased costs for whatever postage/parcel/courier services may be operating on either side of the border. So yeah, I would say that suggestions to the contrary would fall into the category of scaremongering.

Laurence, if the thought of independence is so awful you could always move back to England. I'm English, I like it here and I'm staying.

To say that last season was a let down is an understatement, but a new one is upon us and I think this could one of the most important pre-seasons in our history. TB has to get it right and as he is the man in the job we need to get behind him and hope that he does get it right.