DoofersDad

That's what happens when you pool your resources.

Devine and Meekings played so well at the back on Sunday that it would almost be worth sticking Garry Warren up front. He's certainly found the net well on a few occasions when he's come up for set pieces.

Shouldn't have bothered - they've already got it.

Oh God... were're back to the People's Front of Caledonia versus the bloody Romans again In 1997 when 56 of the 72 Scottish MPs were Labour, the Labour Government delivered on their manifesto promise to hold a referendum on devolution. Devolution was duly delivered and has been a great success. Between 2007 and 2013 the Highlands and Islands has received 122 million Euros of funding from the European Regional Development fund which represents 1.1% of the total EU investment earmarked for the UK under the EU Cohesion Policy for 2007 -13. Given that the Highlands and Islands has approximately 0.5% of the UK population that is funding at 2 x the per capita rate for the rest of the UK. Arguing that Scotland gets no benefit from the UK Government or the EU through being part of the UK is simply ridiculous. It clearly gets some very significant benefit. I'm not saying that these points above are an argument for a no vote, I simply make a plea for the case for independence to be placed on a rather more constructive basis that this blind, fanatical hatred of all things Westminster. Think I'll give this thread a miss for a bit as its doing my head in. I note Oddquine posted a lengthy reply to Charles at 2.39pm on Sunday - er wasn't something else happening in Glasgow at that time?

Great news! But here's a thing. We have a new management team who, whether they like it or not, are going to be working with a team most of whom were signed by or kept on by Butcher. We may see 2 or 3 come in during the summer but that will be it. The management team are going to be judged on what they do with someone else's signings and I wonder if that is fair. On the other hand, Butcher will clearly be making wholesale changes over the summer and it will be illuminating to see the respective positions of the two teams at the end of next season. I suspect Yogi likes the squad he has here and there is no reason why the team won't continue to improve. This season has been a success, and with both Hearts and The Rangers out of the equation, next year we will never have a better opportunity to finish high up in the league. I think next season could be very good indeed.

What we need is for our midfielders to look up a bit more.

Hugh Keevins? Puke Heavings? Never heard of him. With a name which sounds like someone vomitting you really can't expect objective journalism.

Glutton for punnishment that I am, I have just watched the highlights and the first minute is interesting when Hayes launches himself at Josh Meekings. I'm not entirely sure what he was doing, but if he hadn't been quite so late his studs might well have ended in Josh's head 4 foot off the ground. I think it was adrenaline pure and simple and there was no intention to harm Josh, but it was incredibly reckless. Aberdeen may say they are unlucky to have lost Hayes quite so early in the game but they are actually quite lucky that they were able to bring someone on to replace him. The amusing thing about this is that in response to the summariser saying that he hoped the injury wasn't too bad, the commentator gives the opinion that "the challenge from Meekings was a sore one!" I must admit that I was half expecting to see Hayes land in a heap on the ground from a great height fairly early in the game but I was expecting it would be because Richie had taken his legs from under him rather than it being self inflicted. The left Richie free to concentrate on others.

Interesting that when Foran was being fouled, Draper was being manhandled as well to prevent him challenging for the ball. Draper also had a go at the referee for not awarding a penalty. Ref let both of them go. But had a spot kick been awarded then, does anyone know who would have taken it?

There weren't anything like 5-6k newcomers there. Its more a question of lots of folk who only go to a few games a year all going to the same one. No matter, whether new or occasonal supporters, let's hope they enjoyed the day and come along to support the team more often for the bread and butter games. That is where the foundations of the glory days are laid and where the club really needs the support.

Perception is everything. Memories are short. In the 11 leagues games before Butcher left we were averaging 10 attempts on target per game and in the last 11 games Hughes has been in charge we are averaging 9.5. There really is not much difference in that respect. I would concede that we have lost a bit of zip and I'm not quite sure why but one thing that frustrates me now and which frustrated me before is how few players seem to look to take a shot. Obviously Billy does when he gets half a chance but of the rest, the only two who seem to be looking to shoot are Doran and on occasions when he is forward, Shinnie. Draper, Vincent, Foran, Ross and Tansey rarely take a pop at goal and time and time again the ball is moved across the width of the park and none of them ever seems to look to take the initiative to either drive forward themselves or create the space for a shot. The tactic seems to be to either manipulate the chance for an overlap down the wing and a cross or a more intricate exchange through the defence to walk the ball into the net. Doing this often leads to us getting pushed back when the long ball up to a small striker is resorted to. When he takes responsibility for a shot and it goes wrong Doran is accused by some here as being selfish, so it seems you just can't win. Tansey's strike in the semi at Easter Road will live long in the memory and I just don't know why he and the others seem so reluctant to have a go. In Billy Mckay we have a very sharp instinctive striker and I am sure that even if our midfilelders didn't score too often with shots there would be times when the keeper couldn't hold the shots and there would be scraps for Billy to feed off. It's all very well having possession of the ball but it's no use unless you do something with it. Players need to take responsibility upfront to make things happen. At the moment, it seems only Doran is doing that. I don't know whether this is a confidence thing but it needs to change. We have an absolutely crucial period coming up with 6 games in 18 days. Given the huge emotional drain of losing the final in the cruellest way it will not be easy to lift the players but lift them we must. Aberdeen must be favourites for 2nd and therefore this weeks game against Motherwell becomes a 6 pointer for third place. We need to build on the solid defencive work on Sunday and start to be more decisive in an attacking sense. We need to get back to scoring ways and we will not do that if players do not have the confidence to do anything but pass the ball (and the responsibility) to the team mate standing next to them. The fact is that we have got to the final of one cup, the quarter final of another and have secured a top 6 finish with 6 games still to play. This has been a very successful season for us and whilst that may not be good enough for some on this forum, it is something that the team should be proud of. They are a very good team with the potential to be ever better. They shouldn't be downhearted - rather, they should be proud of what they have acheived so far and have the confidence that having acheived this, they can now express themselves and develop further as a team. Hopefully a win at Motherwell will be the signal for a storming end to the season.

It is a serious weekness. We concede far more goals from free kicks than we score. Unless there is someone in the side who can get the up and over or round the wall efforts on target and work the keeper with most attempts then the direct route seems pointless. As PerfICT says, with players in the wall there should be players free to set up something else. If nothing else, a tap kick to either side to someone to drill the ball goalwards (Shinnie with his left foot or Tansey with his right) has a lot more chance of success. It changes the angle for the keeper and it means there is not a solid wall in front and gaps open up. Even if the route to goal is not clear, there are good chances of deflections sending the keeper the wrong way. And even with blocked shots there is a good chance of retaining possession or getting a corner.

I know it's on TV but not live .Yesterdays game was live on T V but it didnt stop thousands of fans coming out to support team. Sitting watching it on TV two hours after KO is hardly support. Just what does this team have to do ??????????? Sorry for rant but just saying it as I see it !!!!! Yesterday was a Sunday with lots of options to get there by public transport, most of them returning by 10 p.mish.. Motherwell is on a Wednesday night with no options of that. Most of us will have to work on Thursday morning which is not very nice when you come home around 2 p.m.. Most of us have to look how to pay mortgage, food, insurances etc., many for a whole family. This won't be made easier if they get sacked from their jobs for not meeting expectations because they run off to a footie match during the week. So I can fully understand that few will take the trip down from Inverness. But I'm sure that the central belters will be there and make the club proud with their support! Nobody is expecting a big turn out at Motherwell. You only have to think of the very small number of Hibs supporters last Wednesday night for what was a really important game for their top 6 ambitions to appreciate that you simply aren't going to get more than a handful of folk travelling to midweek evening kick offs. Hibs have a much bigger fan base than us, there are probably a lot more Hibs fans who live in easy tavelling distance of Inverness than there are Inverness fans living close to Motherwell and the journey between Edinburgh and Inverness is a bit easier than that between Inverness and Motherwell. So I wouldn't knock fans in general for not going but I do think the club should ensure there is transport for the few brilliant folk who do want to make the trip. The support of these few fans at away matches is a big boost to the team. Perhaps a mini bus or a coach provided by the club at no charge to the hardy few on a first come basis would be a reasonable gesture from the club on the back of the financial boost the final has provided.

It was a cup tie Dougal. You either win or you lose. He set us up to win ugly rather than lose pretty. Whilst I was a little alarmed to see Doran was not starting, I think Yogi got the tactics spot on. By playing the way we would like to see the team play we risked being very exposed. They were under huge pressure to win. We needed to stop them playing, get them frustrated and then step up and try to nick one late on. It nearly worked. If the Foran penalty had been given at the end of the 90 minutes (and it was converted!) then we would be celebrating a cup win this morning. It's all very well to say that this tactic was not really neccessary with Pawlett and Hayes out but I don't suppose Hughes could have been certain that Pawlett was out when he selected the team and it would hae been foolish to have sacrificed Vincent and used up a sub in changing the game plan in response to Hayes' early self inflicted injury. It's just a shame that Aberdeen had done their homework on the penalties and held their nerve better than Billy and Greg. Never mind. It was a great occasion and another important milestone for the club. That, in itself is something worth celebrating.

Hopefully Flora will be supporting the winning side this time.

Fair question. Similar to to asking the separatists why they : DON'T want to remain in a union with their nearest neighbour and biggest trade partner, with whom they share a language and are culturally aligned, have centuries of peace and success together, and where they have a strong voice are overrepresented in the democratic process. but instead they: DO want to be part of the most corrupt, wasteful and undemocratic organisation on earth, with countries with whom we have little in common and who couldn't even point us out on a map, and where we would have absolutely no say in anything whatsoever. That would be because we have no say at all in the Union which comprises the UK. If we were in the EU we'd have at least the six current MEPs speaking up for, and voting on behalf of, Scottish interests, whereas now, at least four of them focus on the interests of the UK to the exclusion of Scotland. . It is a toss up as to which is the most corrupt, wasteful and undemocratic organisation on earth...you say the EU...while I think that Westminster, if only because of the bloated administration and the preponderance of MPs out only for their own self interest. ..........but pretty please, how do you get a strong voice out of 59 MPs from Scottish constituencies in a 650 member undemocratically elected parliament which runs the UK without reference to anywhere much outside London and the South? Does my first paragraph not amply illustrate that we have NO voice th Westminster...and therefore NO voice in the Union? The strong voice is a claim which has been puzzling me all my life.....and nobody to date has managed to square that circle to my satisfaction. ...and lots more beside Interesting responses. Whilst not really expecting a response from the the right wing anti EU "Better Together" supporters, I made my observation as a little dig at a mentality which criticises the "Yes" campaign for saying they want independence but at the same time want to be tied to Sterling and the EU. Two sides of the same coin really. Yngwie doesn't defend that position but cleverly and succinctly summarises the apparent illogicality of the "Yes" position. Oddquine has, as usual taken the bait and rather less succinctly tries and, I'm afraid, fails to defend the "Yes" position. I have edited the bulk of her post out in order to leave the main points I want to respond to. First the statement "we have no say at all in the Union which comprises the UK." is complete and utter nonsense. Scotland has roughly 10% of MPs and 1% of MEPs. That is 10 times the voice in the UK than in the EU. Some of these MPs move to positions of prominence in the Government. Gordon Brown (remember him?) became Prime Minister. Do you really think that all these MPs who don't just happen to be SNP MPs go down to London to act against the interests of their constituents? And, as demonstrated much earlier in this thread, historically Scotland usually votes for the party than wins the election. Of course there will be things the UK Parliament decides which are not consistent with what we might want in Scotland as a whole but such is the way of democracy. You can't please all the people all the time. She goes on to say "If we were in the EU we'd have at least the six current MEPs speaking up for, and voting on behalf of, Scottish interests, whereas now, at least four of them focus on the interests of the UK to the exclusion of Scotland." Again, and more explicitly, we have the extraordinary allegation that elected representatives of the Scottish people are abusing their position of trust and acting against the interests of the people who elected them. Words fail me. Next her hatred of all things Westminster is illustrated by reference to "the preponderance of MPs out only for their own self interest". Again this is a pretty shameful thing to say. Yes we know there is some behaviour which is not what we would expect, but the vast majority of MPs go into politics to serve the public and work very hard in doing so. They work long hours and make significant financial and personal sacrifice and are under constant public and media scrutiny. Many of these MPs give up secure well paid jobs in order to serve their constituents for considerably less money. Her blanket allegation of the corruptness of Westminster politicians is pathetic. It does, of course, also beg the question of why politicians will only be out for their own self interest when in a UK Government but will behave honourably in the public interest if elected to an independent Scottish parliament - or is it only English MPs who are shysters? In addition she states "but pretty please, how do you get a strong voice out of 59 MPs from Scottish constituencies in a 650 member undemocratically elected parliament which runs the UK without reference to anywhere much outside London and the South?" This is frankly laughable! Firstly, you self evidently get a stronger voice than from 6 MEPs in a 750 seat European parliament. Secondly, given that London and the South represents a minority of the UK it should be clear that collectively it is the regions and not London that has the power. We all have a voice and democracy is about collective decision making for the collective good I have come into the Independence debate hoping to listen to informed and mature debate. As the "debate" progress it seems that the "Yes" campaign can't tell us whether we will be part of the EU after independence or even what currency we will use. Now we are told that we have no voice in the UK parliament despite having 10% of the MPs, the elected Scottish Representatives to the UK and EU parliaments act against the interests of Scotland and that the majority of Westminster MPs are out only for their own self interest. So much for informed and mature!

Well, they have now secured the title and McMoist has said that the players have demonstrated a lot of bottle. The club has now released a picture of that bottle.

I think Reefinweedallday asks an important point and I think we should care about the implications we can draw from the answer. I think the first point to make is that our situation is different to Livi, Gretna and County in that their appearances at their finals came out of nothing or as a result of success bought out of irresponsible short term investment. There was a novelty value associated with it so that just about anyone with any allegiance to the team wanted to be part of it and loads of neutrals were attracted to the romance of it. Our situation is quite different, We have developed slowly but steadily since the club was formed and have become established in the higher echelons of the Scottish game. Securing a place in a final from time to time is sort of what is expected of a club of our status. The fact that this year we have actually got to a final is exciting for the fans who watch regularly or just once or twice a season but is not causing shock waves and a "must be involved" sense of novelty among others. No doubt we would have sold a few more had this been the Scottish Cup, but the general message is that the number of tickets sold represents what we might see as the broad support for the club from which regular attendance could be drawn. Should we care about the fact that the number is as low as it is? Well, yes, I think we should. As a very rough estimate I would say we have a core support of around 1,000 who go to most home matches. There are then perhaps another 7-8000 who attend maybe once or twice a year upward. These folk probably add another 1,500 - 2,000 to the average non OF/County gate. If we are to improve gates significantly to increase revenue then it is from this broad non-core support that we can expect increased attendance at games. These folk have their reasons for not coming more often and nobody should criticise them for not coming more often; for some, even coming just once or twice represents a level of sacrifice and we should be grateful they are able to come at all. But if those who get to half the games could get to three quarters or if those who get 1 or 2 could get to 4 or 5 over a season then we could potentially get the regular attendance up another 1,000 or so - but that is easier said than done. If the broader support base was bigger then we would only need a very small shift in their attendance patterns to add a 1,000 or so onto regular gates. The message for me is that the number of tickets sold reinforces what we all already know. We have a small fan base and there is not an easily tapped latent support waiting in the wings. Even with continued development and success on the park we are never going to get regular crowds of 5,000 +. No doubt continued success and participation in the occasional final or two will attract a few more in but the reality is that the club has a low support base and the Board needs to accept that and not plan with inflated expectation of support being generated by success. I think it is doing that very well and the fact that we are in a final tomorrow and nobody is particularly surprised that we are is testament to that. We may be small in number, but the fact that we have reached a final and have got there through hard work and merit rather than bought success or a one off fluke, should make us all very proud of our club. I am sure we will enjoy the experience on Sunday all the more for knowing we have earned it.

I would be interested to know how some folk in the Conservative party opposed to Independence for Scotland, square their wish to come out of the EU with the concept of "Better Together".

Head says Europe and heart says League Cup - and the heart wins! If we win on Sunday and are then in the same position next year, the answer would be different.

I agree with the selection and subs in post 3. It would, however, be nice to see Christie have a place on the bench as he brings something a bit different and he impressed during his brief appearance yesterday. But despite my preferred selection, I think Yogi will start with Vincent rather than Watkins - otherwise, why rest him yesterday? That would leave Ross, Watkins and Williams on the bench. They are maybe a bit too similar to all be on the bench so maybe there would be a place for Christie after all. I don't know which of Ross, Watkins and Williams you would leave out as they are all deserving of a place on the bench at least. Such are the problems for the manager but at least it is good to know that there is real quality in depth at the club now. Whilst we may have worrying dips in form from time to time, I think the longer term omens are surely very good.

Did you even watch the game yesterday. Williams was superb. ??? Care to elaborate your point? I assume it is your statement that Williams was superb. He wasn't! He was better than most but he was far from superb. Had he been superb I think we would have had rather more that just 4 attempts on goal. Collectively our attacking midfied was very poor last night. Williams was simply the best of a bad bunch.

Not too many positives I'm afraid. Clean sheet against probably the poorest opposition I've seen this season is no great acheivement. What is worrying is the lack of penetration up front. To be honest we looked much more likely to score on Sunday against Dundee Utd than we did tonight. Having only 4 attempts at goal is a fair reflection of just how poor an attacking performance that was. Doran gave the poorest performance I've seen from him for a while but to fair to him there was rarely much movement in front of him and his options were limited. Foran had an OK game in defensive midfield and Williams did enough to earn a place on the bench. As often is the case, Ross flattered to deceive - some nice touches but no real end result. I'm not sure why Polworth keeps getting chances. He has potential and plays the occasional incisive pass but far too often he gives the ball away under no pressure at all. If Hibs hadn't been hell bent on giving it straight back half the time, these errors could have been severely punished. I would much rather see the likes of Pepper and Greenhalgh be given more of a chance. However, I suppose we have to be happy enough with a point. With Shinnie, Raven and Vincent rested and Draper, Tansey and Watkins suspended, we were a very much weakened side. I am sure we will have a much improved performance on Sunday but players need to take responsibility in the final third. We are not going to beat Aberdeen by constantly puimping high balls for wee Billy. We need to get the ball on the deck and we need our midfielders looking to shoot.

No, you didn't dream it. Billy also has a sore neck from looking up at all the high balls played to him. Seriously though, if Billy isn't injured we can count ourselves lucky - in the 90th minute Forster went right through him from behind and was lucky to escape with just a yellow.