That's almost one win every six games. The club is dysfunctional - something is clearly wrong with its internal structure and if the board are worth their salt they should have identified what this is and set in motion a clear plan of action to sort it out. 

The first question put to them tomorrow night should address this.

Edited August 20, 20178 yr by Guest

2 hours ago, PumpFake said:

That's almost one win every six games. The club is dysfunctional - something is clearly wrong with its internal structure and if the board are worth their salt they should have identified what this is and set in motion a clear plan of action to sort it out. 

The first question put to them tomorrow night should address this.

I'm sorry buy I just don't quite get your point. Almost all of what you're referring to is entirely retrospective since 38 of the games in question were in a different league under a different manager and different chairman, both departed, and a somewhat different board.

7 wins out of 38 last season - yes, we know.... we've been talking about it and analysing it for some time now.  And then no wins in 3 games this season in a completely different set of circumstances, the boardroom side of which has only begun to indicate the will for radical change within the last six days.

I don't think that merging these two different scenarios by use of two different tenses - "are" followed by "should have"-  in the quoted statement is entirely appropriate. In the early stages of a new manager constructing a new team with a vastly reduced budget and six  days after a definite statement of intent and change from within a new boardroom environment, it might be better to take the 38 as the well established past.... and the 3 as the start of a new phase which would be more accurately judged at a later date.

Statistically that type for form would suggest a team heading towards relegation ..................................hang on......

This is a rebuilding exercise. Robbo mentioned the relegation hang over yesterday. He clearly wants to do a great job and I personally think we need to allow him time to do so. Far too early to draw any conclusions. 

Ok here's a thought, Robbo said yesterday that the two coaches ( Kell and Rice)  had both thought the players were still suffering a relegation 'hangover'   -   Most of the players weren't here last season, and the most glaring factor in our demise is.....

 

Brian Rice!      apart from the fact that RF was a shyte manager, Rice took over once Latapy jumped ship and it's been downhill ever since!

Pretty far fetched i know but....

2 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I'm sorry buy I just don't quite get your point. Almost all of what you're referring to is entirely retrospective since 38 of the games in question were in a different league under a different manager and different chairman, both departed, and a somewhat different board.

7 wins out of 38 last season - yes, we know.... we've been talking about it and analysing it for some time now.  And then no wins in 3 games this season in a completely different set of circumstances, the boardroom side of which has only begun to indicate the will for radical change within the last six days.

I don't think that merging these two different scenarios by use of two different tenses - "are" followed by "should have"-  in the quoted statement is entirely appropriate. In the early stages of a new manager constructing a new team with a vastly reduced budget and six  days after a definite statement of intent and change from within a new boardroom environment, it might be better to take the 38 as the well established past.... and the 3 as the start of a new phase which would be more accurately judged at a later date.

You have got that one right C B I agree entirely.

I see where you're coming from Charles, but I don't agree that the right attitude is to wait and see how things turn out and I don't agree that the recent past should be glossed over in such a blasé manner.

What I have seen from the board and the club over the last few weeks does not suggest that "radical" change is on the agenda. This is from the most recent statement:

"The Board is committed to improving communication and collaboration, enhancing leadership, governance and transparency, and implementation of a sustainable business plan that makes the Club more resilient and optimises the resources available for football."

The latter point is what concerns me. Yes, it's great that there will be better communication with fans and a sustainable business plan put in place, but where is the plan for utilising the "optimised resources" that will be created for football? Where is the plan to progress us on the pitch? This is the only thing that can lead us to being a sustainable Premiership club, which is surely our goal. We need an on-field strategy.

It may all come good for Robbo, and I obviously hope it does, but from what I currently see the club is flailing around in a number of departments relating to on-field matters when what we need are goals and the concrete strategy and focus with which to attain them.

For example - Aberdeen's on-field strategy is clearly to buy up all the best Scottish players; those that the Old Firm aren't interested in. It is working very well for them. Obviously ours would be several rungs below that in terms of player quality etc., but it should exist nonetheless.

Take scouting, for example.

A number of the players we have signed are from the same agency. It is unlikely that anyone at the club, including Robbo, had heard of them before this Summer. This is like doing all your shopping at the local corner shop because you are too lazy to visit the supermarket a couple of blocks away. You are not giving yourself the best selection and it will cost you money in the long run.  We are not giving ourselves the best chance of success if our signing strategy is to wait for an agency to send us a Youtube compilation and player profile before getting these players in on a week-long trial. What plan do the board have to ensure that we do things better in future? For example, do they feel we should hire a scout on 30k a year? We saw with Marsella how that benefitted us in the long run.

I could give more examples (i.e. coaching - as caley100 says, what are the likes of Brian Rice contributing? Could we be doing better in this regard? Also, our youth system. Do we have any idea what we want from it and how to achieve that goal? It is currently in a pathetic state). 

If the board's main purpose is to keep the lights on, they should focus far more on the football side of things. This should transcend whatever manager is in the dugout. The only thing that is currently transcending managers is our inability to put in performances on the pitch.

To do this consistently, we need structure for the football part of the business. This should be the board's priority.
 

 

Edited August 20, 20178 yr by Guest

i know it is extremely difficult with what is all going on  now and what has come before in the last while but i cant help feeling we have yet again to exercise patience a great deal of patience i'm afraid but strangely over the home games we have definitely seen signs of improvement albeit not consistent but there is a bunch of players out there gradually becoming a Team. confidence is still lacking in many areas especially up front. Polworths best attempt for instance was about three quarters of what it should have been, he looked scared 'he would miss the target, two seasons ago he would have lashed it past the Keeper, instead of aiming at him without the proper force. Gaps in midfield where we should have been stronger lead to their goals on Saturday, that too seemed a nervy reaction. from our players . Warren's return made a difference in our box, the inclusion of Raven's experience in there would have been a big plus too. 

I look forward to Tremarco and Dorran coming back in, Mulraney will learn a lot from watching their play, running, positioning and shooting and Mulraney will, if jhe takes notice, become a very much better player 

Ridgers weaknesses I mentioned after I watched the Broara pre-sweason game, Slow improvement there still a bomb scare at times but I am slowly gaining confidence in him, he pulls of some really good saves but still has to work hard on the basics,  his clearances and clutching the ball.

No, patience it needs but I'm sure we will come good and yes the Board have got to get all issues settled a s a p and concentrate on giving as much backing to the playing side as they can. We do need real  good performances

I think we need to give it time, there have been so many changes lately (including the Board, which is ongoing..) - the team haven't gelled yet, that's clear to see, but there is a will there. Early days.

I just want to hear that the board have some concrete plans to move forward (& I don't just mean building a team on the park - the whole setup needs looking at). 

As per  other post wait for 8 league games under robertson. 

That will tell us how we are actually doing and indicate what is possible for the rest of the season. The draw with morton was the start but brechin and qos become the real places wins required to get our points tally ticking over. 

46 minutes ago, Moogthurso said:

The draw with morton was the start  

Really seems like clutching at straws, lets be honest Morton are a good team but by no means best in the league. We did well for 20 mins early on until they sussed us out after which we were probably lucky to hang on. Not being pumped 3 or 4 nil perhaps makes this a positive in the current situation but anyone who is happy to see this as the beginning of a bright new dawn would have been one of the ones last season harking on about Foran being a great and needing more time then too. 

I believe 1-1 is acceptable actually. They finished 4th last season and are a decent side. Losing 1-0 to Utd by a penalty is also unfortunate. However the way we lost to Dunfermline is what's annoyed most people I think. Lets be honest we should be heading for mid table  this season and hoping for a snatch at the playoffs. If we don't beat Brechin then we are in for a long hard season. It's interesting to see Falkirk rock bottom on 1 point too. 

14 minutes ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

I believe 1-1 is acceptable actually. They finished 4th last season and are a decent side. Losing 1-0 to Utd by a penalty is also unfortunate. However the way we lost to Dunfermline is what's annoyed most people I think. Lets be honest we should be heading for mid table  this season and hoping for a snatch at the playoffs. If we don't beat Brechin then we are in for a long hard season. It's interesting to see Falkirk rock bottom on 1 point too. 

No, how can you possibly think scraping a home draw is acceptable and settle for mid table obscurity. We have been forced into making  changes but the core of an experienced SPL side is still there OFW , Warren , Raven , Polworth , Vigurs , Tremarco, Mulraney etc . These guys have all played at the highest level, so with some astute additions and good management we should be aiming a lot higher than mid table.  

18 minutes ago, forresjags said:

No, how can you possibly think scraping a home draw is acceptable and settle for mid table obscurity. We have been forced into making  changes but the core of an experienced SPL side is still there OFW , Warren , Raven , Polworth , Vigurs , Tremarco, Mulraney etc . These guys have all played at the highest level, so with some astute additions and good management we should be aiming a lot higher than mid table.  

There's no core left in our team. Tremarco hasn't played this season, you might as well mention Doran as well. Mulraney is an experienced player? One season with us where we got relegated....

As for polworth he has been on the fringes of our team for years and just isn't good enough. 

We have a new squad that needs time to gel. Please tell me how many teams that get relegated go back up the next season. I can only think of 2 or 3 in the last 20 years.  Settling for mid table obscurity this season is ok with me, as long as the performances come and we look like we are getting somewhere.  The top half of the Championship can easily compete with the bottom half of the premier. Something we couldn't even manage last season with a better squad.

hhhmmm 

OFW- We cant punt the guy quick enough as far as Robbo is concerned 

 Warren - yup give you that one

 Raven - See OFW

 Polworth -Never got past the "potential" tag he had a while ago

Vigurs- Should be a good player in the League we are in 

 Tremarco- Out till at Least November 

 Mulraney - One season where we got relegated 

 

not sure exactly where your "core of an experienced SPL side is still there" is 

The basics of an experienced side are still in and around the club. Whether JR fancies them or not is debatable, but nonetheless they are still there, including both Tremarco and Doran who will be back for the remaining 7 months of the season. 

 

Fact is @forresjags we are a team in a  transitional period on and off the park, we havent got a "core" of SPL players, we have pretty much got a new team, and any new team are going to take time to gel. I dont expect us to get promoted this season, i would love to be wrong on that, all these players coming in, with the exception of Baird, are younger guys who could possibly grow into a team to take us back up. 

Our Team Last Saturday below  so 7 new players, 5 of whom have never played in this league before 

• 28Ridgers - New 
• 17Seedorf - New 
• 5Warren
• 22McKay
• 16Calder- New
• 7Polworth
• 24Trafford- New 
• 11VigursBooked at 30mins
• 4Chalmers - New 
• 9Baird- New 
• 14Oakley- New 

7 out of 41 - feck me we are doing better than I thought.

IHE--0smile!

 

I feel that the defence must become rock solid if for no other reasons than:-

(1). There is little money to spend on anything let alone  the whole team,  and

(2) Once this happens then ICT can assess the rebuild of the forward line which will  be easier on these forwards since they know that  if they make a mistake then it will not necessarily be equal to the loss of a goal. And that at least will ensure no second relegation for our team which is now in a complete rebuild mode. And they can learn from  mistakes without  necessarily being  emotionally quashed by them.

18 hours ago, mikeyrob73 said:

Fact is @forresjags we are a team in a  transitional period on and off the park, we havent got a "core" of SPL players, we have pretty much got a new team, and any new team are going to take time to gel. I dont expect us to get promoted this season, i would love to be wrong on that, all these players coming in, with the exception of Baird, are younger guys who could possibly grow into a team to take us back up. 

Our Team Last Saturday below  so 7 new players, 5 of whom have never played in this league before 

• 28Ridgers - New 
• 17Seedorf - New 
• 5Warren
• 22McKay
• 16Calder- New
• 7Polworth
• 24Trafford- New 
• 11VigursBooked at 30mins
• 4Chalmers - New 
• 9Baird- New 
• 14Oakley- New 

Not denying we are in transition, it happens every year but we still have 7 of the players who lined up for our last game of the season against Motherwell  at the club.

Other than Tansey and Draper( maybe pre-injury Meekings  who have we lost than you could honestly say had an impact on the club and you are gutted they left? Ebbe, Anier, Cole, Horner, King the list is long ?

With respect, the ones who have departed  were mainly stopgaps and have been replaced with like for like. 

 

I think the players that have come in are mixed.

Seedorf calder trafford oakley better than the stopgaps last year.

Chalmers ridgers baird undecided

Elsdon currently a bombscare. 

One of the biggest concern is the lack of a goal scorer or anyone who looks like they may fill that. We let go of guys like Ebbe , Boden and Anier who struggled at Premiership level yet may have done a job in the lower leagues, scoring and gaining confidence as they improved. Instead we sign cheap options with again no track record to try integrate into a squad - alongside these a proven scorer should have been made priority, whether that was a decent offer to Fisher or looking elsewhere but if Baird was considered that option - so far he doesn't look likely.

 

 

26 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

One of the biggest concern is the lack of a goal scorer or anyone who looks like they may fill that. We let go of guys like Ebbe , Boden and Anier who struggled at Premiership level yet may have done a job in the lower leagues, scoring and gaining confidence as they improved. Instead we sign cheap options with again no track record to try integrate into a squad - alongside these a proven scorer should have been made priority, whether that was a decent offer to Fisher or looking elsewhere but if Baird was considered that option - so far he doesn't look likely.

 

 

I would start Bell over Baird and partner him with Oakley. 

Baird is supposedly 'proven' at Championship level, but he doesn't look capable to me. 

The other thing is I am struggling to see where our goals from open play will come. 

The two, from three matches, have been from free kicks. 

Corners are being wasted and either straight to opposition defence and cleared  or scooped up easily by the goalie. 

Edited August 22, 20178 yr by Guest

On 21/08/2017 at 1:52 PM, forresjags said:

No, how can you possibly think scraping a home draw is acceptable and settle for mid table obscurity. We have been forced into making  changes but the core of an experienced SPL side is still there OFW , Warren , Raven , Polworth , Vigurs , Tremarco, Mulraney etc . These guys have all played at the highest level, so with some astute additions and good management we should be aiming a lot higher than mid table.  

Personally, I think is IS acceptable (just..), given that it's the start of the season & that there have been so many personnel changes (both on & off the park). The club is going through some major changes (including rebuilding most of the 1st team). 

I would take some positives from the game, but things are very much a work in progress just now.

If it was the 2nd half of the season, I would totally agree with you that a home draw with Morton wasn't acceptable, but, c'mon, we need to be realistic - Robbo made the point at the meeting that some of the players haven't played regular 1st team football before! I'm hoping for a gradual improvement & would be happy with mid-table by Dec/Jan, with a push for a playoff spot. If we are in contention for the title, brilliant - but I'd be pleasantly suprised....

Edited August 23, 20178 yr by jingsmonty

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