Autumnal Aspirations

[+old caley girl 1,811]

16 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Progressing, just after KO due to parking problems, right through the Howden End from the front gate to the stand where I was one of several sitting on the ground beside the dugout, gave a pretty good insight into how packed it was. So yes, I actually saw the Howden End in its entirety, and hence probably in more detail than most Howden Enders, which is why my recollection is so clear. I had no ticket (cue the usual carping at that) - I just turned up with....how many more extras with some similar need to get in? But the really big unknown was how many succeeded in "joopeen in", for instance over the unused gate between Howden End and stand. It would be unwise to attribute to HL days at Telford Street the same degree of security,sophistication of stewarding and crowd control as the Premiership-experienced modern TCS. It's also worth remembering that come the cup tie v Rangers just 4 years later, Telford Street was no longer considered adequate to host such a game, although Rangers had also visited in 1984.

Jooping still goes on ....lol Saw someone do it at the Clach preseason friendly. 

Back on topic HL crowds had deminished considerably by the time of the merger. 

Would be nice to get more support at the TCS but think the club do all they can to facilitate this. Tend to agree with Charles' comment earlier in thread re the area supporting 2 Prem clubs. A lot of Invernesians go OTB for some unknown reason. 

[dougiedanger 457]

The attendance issue is always discussed in terms of numbers, when type of supporter is as important and relevant. If you compared the crowd at the Caley v St Johnstone cup game back then to the present day crowd, how would that look?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,118]

Doofers Dad - HELGIN SHITTEE - In January, 1967, City unveiled their brand new floodlights with a 2-0 replay win over non-league counterparts Hawick Royal Albert to set up a first round home clash against Ally MacLeod’s First Division Ayr United. A super-charged 9,500 crowd, again under the Borough Briggs floodlights, were rewarded with a memorable 2-0 victory to set up a second round trip to Glasgow and another crack at Celtic.

A year on and the Scottish Cup records were about to be rewritten. Preliminary round wins over Albion Rovers and Tarff Rovers, followed by a first round success against Forfar, set up a mouthwatering home second round tie against Arbroath. A record Borough Briggs attendance of 12,650 celebrated a fantastic 2-0 victory to take City into the quarter-finals, the first – and as yet, only – non-league side to reach that stage of the national tourney.

And CB is showing his true colours - One of the "Traitors In The Stands" - used to freebies as long as they stuck by the profiteers. It just sticks in his throat that we are right.

Many of the "Invernessians" were the refusnik Caley and Jags fans.

[Charles Bannerman 989]

54 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

First Division Ayr United. A super-charged 9,500 crowd.....

.....against Arbroath. A record Borough Briggs attendance of 12,650 celebrated a fantastic 2-0 victory to take City into the quarter-finals, 

 

the profiteers.

IHE has now got me wondering if it's really worth arguing out my point myself when he does this much better on my behalf. What's quoted above is further valuable evidence that people turned out in numbers for the novelty of the Scottish Cup - even more so in the 60s than in later decades - in complete contrast with Highland League games which rapidly descended into ghost town status. By the early 90s there was barely even a second man to watch the dog while the first one went for a pee. Highland League crowds were dying on their backsides and this was evident to all but those who, oozing with contrived self-righteousness, choose to retain refuge in the delusional, over-inflated bubble of what they considered to be a golden age of their youth.

Profiteers? Which ones would that be? Not at ICT judging by the club's historical accounts and at Ross County it's well known that the money travels in the other direction ie inwardly. I suspect that IHE is talking about the people whose responsibility it is to raise money/ secure charitable donations (aka "investments") so that ticket prices can be subsidised at their present levels through non-football activity.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Charles Bannerman

[dougal 243]

1 hour ago, dougiedanger said:

The attendance issue is always discussed in terms of numbers, when type of supporter is as important and relevant. If you compared the crowd at the Caley v St Johnstone cup game back then to the present day crowd, how would that look?

The Caley v St Johnstone cup game was a ground packed full of Invernessians with a fair number of cling ons like Bannerman whereas the modern day crowd are mainly made up of incomers, elderly wifees, more than ever cling ons and a clear minority of Invernessians 

Even on CTO you can count on one hand the amount of posters who are born and bred locals who post from a current Inverness household like moi

Dougal

Edited September 29, 2016 by dougal

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,118]

At what point did I make any reference to the 90's ? 9,500 and 12,650 is a pretty good attendance for a novelty. Who mentioned profiteers ? The 70's were a "golden age". Football in the Highlands was of an advanced standard. There were a lot of teams who would have walked through the lower divisions. As per usual CB has turned the OP and a side argument into a debate about the feckin merger. Fer fecks sake forget it.

[12th Man 1,193]

1 hour ago, dougal said:

The Caley v St Johnstone cup game was a ground packed full of Invernessians with a fair number of cling ons like Bannerman whereas the modern day crowd are mainly made up of incomers, elderly wifees, more than ever cling ons and a clear minority of Invernessians 

Even on CTO you can count on one hand the amount of posters who are born and bred locals who post from a current Inverness household like moi

Dougal

If your posting from Inverness then the council boundaries must have moved considerably since the last time I checked.

Great topic though for those of a certain age.

[Charles Bannerman 989]

1 hour ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

At what point did I make any reference to the 90's ? 9,500 and 12,650 is a pretty good attendance for a novelty. Who mentioned profiteers ? The 70's were a "golden age". Football in the Highlands was of an advanced standard. There were a lot of teams who would have walked through the lower divisions. As per usual CB has turned the OP and a side argument into a debate about the feckin merger. Fer fecks sake forget it.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when any reference to Inverness football in the early 90s has to be sniped at as an alleged reference to the m****r. This thread has now drifted away off topic, mainly due to misleading photos which weren't even of Highland League matches being used to imply that Highland League crowds were much greater than they actually were. And that was before the next bright red herring of attendances for Elgin City's all time most famous Scottish cup campaigns in the 1960s. The point I was making was that Highland League attendances spent a number of years dying on their backsides and, in the case of Kingsmills and Telford Street, to appraise that we clearly have to adopt the end point of the early 1990s, by which time things had become pretty thin indeed.

I am sure there must be some recognised clinical diagnosis for a fixation with looking back to an earlier phase of your life with an exaggerated fondness and delusionally inflated perception of just how good it was. "Hovis Syndrome" might suitably apply.

"Who mentioned profiteers?".... YOU did IHE. Take a look at the penultimate paragraph of the post five above this one!

Then we have very interesting views from dougal and dougiedanger respectively about the ethnic integrity and ideological soundness of "real" fans of Inverness football. First we have DD who seems terribly concerned about getting "the right kind of chap" through the gate. Only the ideologically sound. Only the "Inverness minded" perhaps? Then we have Dougal, who for all we know may well be an Albanian or an Eskimo who has never visited Inverness in his (or indeed possibly her) life. Dougal is clearly very concerned about the Aryan credentials of people gaining entry to Inverness football matches. Given that this time round, measuring nose length wouldn't provide an indication of ethnic Invernessian purity, might he instead be proposing placing "real" Invernessians at the turnstiles who would only admit those with "acceptable" vowel sounds...... "righ'een naff".

Clearly the xenophobic, parochial tribalism of the old Inverness football remains alive and well.

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by Charles Bannerman

[Kingsmills 6,193]

2 hours ago, dougal said:

The Caley v St Johnstone cup game was a ground packed full of Invernessians with a fair number of cling ons like Bannerman whereas the modern day crowd are mainly made up of incomers, elderly wifees, more than ever cling ons and a clear minority of Invernessians 

Even on CTO you can count on one hand the amount of posters who are born and bred locals who post from a current Inverness household like moi

Dougal

If you are suggesting that those not born and brought up in Inverness or who happen to be women, of whatever age or background are somehow less worthy or less valuable fans than native born Invernessian men then this particular native Invernessian man  could not disagree with you more.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Kingsmills

[dougal 243]

I welcome every paying customer that pays at the turnstiles no matter who they are or where they come from

New houses are still going up in large numbers hopefully they will fill with more newcomers to boost the attendance on Saturday afternoons

Those who probably have never seen a turnstile like Bannerman, now that's a different story they epitomise everything that is wrong with football past and present in Inverness

Whether we like it or not we are seen by most Invernessians as a franchised institution not a football club

Charlie Christies comments regarding the Angus clubs on TV a week or two back doesn't help either

Dougal 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2016 by dougal

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,118]

Well if you beat a fairly buoyant St Jones Town, fashion a worthy draw at Aberdire and come from behind to grab another well deserved point against the Champions elect the remainder of September and October should hold no fears. Dundee, Sevco, Killie and the Jam Tarts at home and only two away trips to Hamilton and Muvversmell. I would take 13-14 points from that lot. Interesting quote from Foran yesterday was that his main man management task was to keep the players who are not getting a regular game happy. I think that should be a bonus as I cant remember such competition for starting places for many a year and with people on the bench quite capable of fitting in. That of course means that everybody has to maintain a level of performance to ensure that they keep their places whilst the others have to be ready to take their chances. The back five basically now picks itself. There is lots of scope to change things in midfield and hopefully to play teams to fit in with the opposition we are playing against. I feel that pushing Draper forward was a masterstroke as it allows both he and Tansey to play their own games instead of vying against each other. Lets just hope that the last three games are not just lifting ourselves against the better teams and we can show the psyche to dominate some of the "lesser" teams. This is a great opportunity to cement ourselves in the top six and provide early breathing space from the anxieties of a relegation battle. And what a feckin difference from the shocking display in Embra

[ictfcsince94 373]

1 hour ago, dougal said:

Whether we like it or not we are seen by most Invernessians as a franchised institution not a football club

 

Eh.....nope. No, we're not. But whatever! 

No reason why we can't get a good result on Saturday to set us up for hosting Sevco. Onwards and upwards!! 

#comeonthecaleyjags #prideofthehighlands #caleyaway

[Scotty 2,771]

 

this is an alternative to replying ...... http://caleythistleonline.com/ignore/

 

[dougiedanger 457]

It's daft to compare Caley and Thistle Highland League attendances to ICT Premier League crowds--of course the latter would be bigger!

How many would watch ICT in the Highland League?

How many would watch Caley or Thistle in the Premier League, or even a new team created in a way that did not alienate the core support of both teams?

I guess we'll never know.

[ictfcsince94 373]

2 minutes ago, dougiedanger said:

It's daft to compare Caley and Thistle Highland League attendances to ICT Premier League crowds--of course the latter would be bigger!

How many would watch ICT in the Highland League?

How many would watch Caley or Thistle in the Premier League, or even a new team created in a way that did not alienate the core support of both teams?

I guess we'll never know.

I have mentioned a few times about poor attendances and it almost always starts this argument about pre-merger/post merger stuff.  I'd rather compare to the likes of Hamilton, Partick, Motherwell, Dundee etc who are smaller clubs who have to compete with others and the ugly sisters for fans.  yes i know the central belt is again a different demographic, and we have the issue of geography to contend with as well, but i feel it would be slighlty more beneficial than comparing a top flight club today with a highland league club 30 years ago....

Autumnal Aspirations? Firmly planted in the top six! 

[Huisdean 680]

I moved to Inverness in 1967 from Aberdeen and because I stayed "up the hill", Inverness Thistle were my adopted team. My first game I attended was against Elgin and the crowd was certainly in the thousands, three perhaps. I well remember local derbies getting crows of 4/5 thousand as would Scottish Cup ties during the seventies. I w as also a season ticket holder at Thistle for many years but crowds had started to diminish from the eighties onward and at the end, crowds were down to the low hundreds for all Inverness clubs. Anyone who states otherwise has a very selective memory.

Crowds in Scotland have diminished since the late sixties for many reasons, not least because there are so many alternatives on a Saturday afternoon now. As a last example, before I moved up from Aberdeen, who my father took me to watch, they reached the Scottish Cup Final in 1967. On the way to that, they had a replay against Hearts, I think midweek and drew an astonishing crowd of 45000 to Pittodrie. How great would that be now.

[TheMantis 1,761]

2 hours ago, Huisdean said:

I moved to Inverness in 1967 from Aberdeen and because I stayed "up the hill", Inverness Thistle were my adopted team. My first game I attended was against Elgin and the crowd was certainly in the thousands, three perhaps. I well remember local derbies getting crows of 4/5 thousand as would Scottish Cup ties during the seventies. I w as also a season ticket holder at Thistle for many years but crowds had started to diminish from the eighties onward and at the end, crowds were down to the low hundreds for all Inverness clubs. Anyone who states otherwise has a very selective memory.

Crowds in Scotland have diminished since the late sixties for many reasons, not least because there are so many alternatives on a Saturday afternoon now. As a last example, before I moved up from Aberdeen, who my father took me to watch, they reached the Scottish Cup Final in 1967. On the way to that, they had a replay against Hearts, I think midweek and drew an astonishing crowd of 45000 to Pittodrie. How great would that be now.

That must be the same year they knocked out Hibs after a replay. I went to the first game at Easter Road and got a space at the front with my pal about an hour before kick off. We didn't have a chance to move again till full time. The crowd was 40000 and the Dons got a late equaliser. That was the year Berwick beat Rangers and Hibs beat them in the next round.

[Bridge_Ender 88]

Caley v St Johnstone, 1992... Only 9 years old at the time but still one of my all time favourite football memories. Coming back to 2-2, sensational stuff. It was by far the biggest crowd I'd been in up to that point, and we were at Telford Street most weeks. 

 

It's a completely different football world now to then. More choice, more TV, more exposure, greater demand, and options, on the leisure ££. It's almost pointless to compare and we'll never know what Caley would have achieved attendance wise. What we do know is that average CT attendances early on were higher than the combined average Caley & Thistle attendances in the final seasons, and that we compare favourably as a % of population attending (something in the region of 4.5% is standard, if I remember right), so with a population of 46,870 in 2012 anything over 2,100 is a bonus, perhaps?

[Scarlet Pimple 973]

Yes and the new stand that Aberdeen seem to have decided to start building  shortly is certainly not designed to assist in packing in anything like 45,000 into their ground. More like 20,000 or just above it as far as I can remember from a couple of articles I had read.

If this is correct it's a realistic commentary on what the situation is in the premiership for the  more favoured teams these days, excluding of course the old firm gates.

 

[Alex MacLeod 1,539]

On 9/29/2016 at 2:27 PM, Scotty said:

I was in the Howden End that day, and remember this game well, and whilst Jeremy Corbyn might describe it as 'rammed', there was certainly adequate room in most areas. 

The closest TCS came to this was the cup game (replay?) against Dundee Utd I think it was in the early days when the stadium capacity of stand and terracing was somewhere around 6000. the stand was full and the terracing was also jammed ... we scored an injury time equaliser but I think we were beaten in extra time. 

From this site Scotty 4th round tie played on 14th Feb 98 ended one each. ICT scorer Sheerin. Replay at TCS on 18th Feb finished 2-3 Our scorers Thompson and McCulloch. Crowd 5821

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,118]

Well 4 points out of 9 is less than I was expecting. Can we get 9/9 from Killie, Well and Hearts ?

[forresjags 431]

Mate, that is a big ask.

Was really hoping that Killie would be in total turmoil by now, but that was a decent result at the weekend.

Motherwell away in midweek, would take a point.

Hearts, think we can raise our game, payback time for earlier in the season,

7  from 9 for me .     

[ictfcsince94 373]

Killie - Must Win

Well - Must not lose

Hearts - Must regain face!

[+Robert 1,354]

That's a fair assessment!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,118]

Hopefully the last prediction will come true - I can live with 10 points - saves me renaming the thread Autumnal Exasperations