v Airdrie - League Cup

[Jaggernaut]

7 minutes ago, lizi said:

I’m always in the North Stand and will be glad to get back to my usual seat to enjoy the game without being within earshot of Mr Dodds.   So much swearing at his team, is that his way to encourage?   In my successful working life I was a team leader and NEVER would have shouted at one of my team - you’re a f..king amateur, which was shouted on Tuesday evening at an established team member.  I cannot recall ever being advised that insulting someone, especially in public, encouraged better performance.   Plenty times the f word was used towards his players.  If I was in his team I would be raging - so much for being a leader - huh - Mr Dodds’ tactics are so obvious other teams know how to play against us and his lack of vocabulary only shows up his many failings.  

There are some teams that would run through brick walls for their manager, that is something that is quite obvious not applicable with Dodds.

[+DoofersDad]

43 minutes ago, lizi said:

 So much swearing at his team, is that his way to encourage?   In my successful working life I was a team leader and NEVER would have shouted at one of my team - you’re a f..king amateur, which was shouted on Tuesday evening at an established team member.  I cannot recall ever being advised that insulting someone, especially in public, encouraged better performance.   Plenty times the f word was used towards his players.  If I was in his team I would be raging - so much for being a leader - huh 

Some might say such language is all part and parcel of football culture.  If so, then it needs to change.  The club used to promote a "family club" image and there were announcements before games that foul and abusive language would not be tolerated.  Clearly foul and abusive language is not only tolerated, it is part and parcel of the management style of the manager.  As you say, abusing your staff in public is bad management.  It is also in contravention of the club's own unacceptable conduct policy, although something tells me he will not be hauled over the coals for his foul mouthed behaviour.

[big cherly]

12 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

Some might say such language is all part and parcel of football culture.  If so, then it needs to change.  The club used to promote a "family club" image and there were announcements before games that foul and abusive language would not be tolerated.  Clearly foul and abusive language is not only tolerated, it is part and parcel of the management style of the manager.  As you say, abusing your staff in public is bad management.  It is also in contravention of the club's own unacceptable conduct policy, although something tells me he will not be hauled over the coals for his foul mouthed behaviour.

Maybe the head of the Supporters Trust Board can submit it in an email to the SLO!  - Oh I forgot, no one in the STB looks at the forum, (makes you wonder why their there), and the ICT suggestion box disappeared years ago! 

bc

Edited July 27, 2023 by big cherly

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

I was not present on Tuesday night but swearing at staff in some workplaces is deemed serious misconduct. 

[caley1]

43 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

I was not present on Tuesday night but swearing at staff in some workplaces is deemed serious misconduct. 

Be nice if someone caught it on video 

[BobbyDazzler]

Has there been any more information regarding Lewis Nicholson from the club yet? Hopefully it's not as serious as first expected 

[Robert]

Sadly I suspect that most Managers are guilty of “industrial” language. Dick Campbell and Ian McColl, for example, are probably much worse than Dodds.

Players are probably used to it too, and we often hear it from players during games.

However, none of that is acceptable.

Kids will be hearing the language and what example does that set?

Players are in their workplace and should be treated respectfully by their employer.

Employers also have a duty to try to protect their employees from abuse in the workplace, both from other employees and the public. That’s why we get the announcements before games, but that’s as far as it goes.

There’s a thread live here just now that is arguably abusing one of the club’s employees (Billy Billy GTF) which highlights how difficult it is for any employer to protect its workforce.

However, the Management team should be required to lead by example and conduct themselves professionally at all times.

Separately someone mentioned the late start of pre-season. I don’t think the club had a choice or they’d have broken the Working Time Directive. Full time employees must get 28 days paid holiday per year, normally 20 days (4 weeks) holiday plus 8 public holidays. With the final being on 3 June, the first Monday in July is really the earliest they could have the players back in training.

 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

All I can say is What the feck 

[jed5697]

Let’s give some praise to Airdrie for coming north securing three points and giving all ICT fans something to mull over. They would probably would have thought they there was a fair chance prior to arriving given the respective team situation; ie no one could argue they weren’t the more settled side at present. However ICT could also have won the game and we now have analysis of what went right/wrong. With that in mind if a player makes a glaring mistake it is usually obvious and there is no hiding place; they have to hold up their hands and accept. Then obviously rectify if possible in future games. Anyone verbally castigating them or blaming them from the coaching staff for causing a defeat will only cause further disharmony within the team. The players know if they have messed up and they will not want to let their team mates down. It’s a bit more tricky when looking at what went wrong tactically around player selection and formations; both before and during games. However if players have to hold up their hands and admit mistakes then it seems entirely reasonable that so do the coaching/management. You can learn by your mistakes after all we all make them so that’s not the issue the issue is owning them learning from them and being supported to improve.  A phrase that we hear a lot is telling players to be brave on the ball ; and I would add if your brave and make a mistake don’t worry as we will support you; not castigate you. Football is after all a large part to do with confidence and momentum as we all know. Hopefully behind the scenes this culture is being fostered and the game time verbals are the cut and thrust of battle and not things that fester.  After all we all want the same end result and given the season is just starting its in everyone’s interest to support each other and not play the blame game. 

[+Fraz]

Foul language at a football game is unacceptable. If I heard anything like that in the North Stand I would take my daughters away and never return. 

[ICTPaisley]

2 hours ago, Fraz said:

Foul language at a football game is unacceptable. If I heard anything like that in the North Stand I would take my daughters away and never return. 

Heard it in the north stand at the end of last season. Some idiot got ejected at half time for trying to bully our own support a fair few roasters in our support these days. 

[+MrCaleyjag]

9 hours ago, big cherly said:

Maybe the head of the Supporters Trust Board can submit it in an email to the SLO!  - Oh I forgot, no one in the STB looks at the forum, (makes you wonder why their there), and the ICT suggestion box disappeared years ago! 

bc

What's your actual problem with the Supporters Trust Board that you seem to think it's ok to come on here and slate them at every turn possible and points fingers?

Quite the statements given your relative new found voice on here and very little content.

I would suggest that users on here who are part of the Supporters Trust are here in the same capacity as you and I, to post our feelings with like minded people and scan for fans views. 

Maybe instead of pointing fingers and coming across as being slightly childish, especially in matchday threads, you should contact the Trust direct and see if you can get some help or answers from them direct. Knowing that the Trust works on behalf of the fans, I am sure they'd only be too willing to assist in any way they can if you put it across in a more constructive manner to them direct.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

At risk of a warning this thread is getting feckin boring.

[Robert]

3 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

At risk of a warning this thread is getting feckin boring.

It could be worse, Mrs Brown, we could be Hibs fans mourning a defeat to an amateur team from the tiny principality of Andorra. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Robert

[Robert]

On 7/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Jaggernaut said:

There are some teams that would run through brick walls for their manager, that is something that is quite obvious not applicable with Dodds.

Where’s the evidence for this?

Of our players out of contract we released Boyd, Sutherland, Walsh and Woods.

Everyone knew Deas was moving on.

Only Allardice turned down a new contract.

All other out of contract players agreed new deals.

If they were unhappy with the set up here more surely some would have moved on!

[Jaggernaut]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Where’s the evidence for this?

Of our players out of contract we released Boyd, Sutherland, Walsh and Woods.

Everyone knew Deas was moving on.

Only Allardice turned down a new contract.

All other out of contract players agreed new deals.

If they were unhappy with the set up here more surely some would have moved on!

The truth is out there!

I'm afraid that I cannot divulge the sources, as, just like the club, information is a very rare commodity.

[Satan]

18 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

At risk of a warning this thread is getting feckin boring.

Getting?!

[tm4tj]

2 hours ago, Satan said:

Getting?!

What!

I started it...

[Duke of Inverness]

17 hours ago, Robert said:

It could be worse, Mrs Brown, we could be Hibs fans mourning a defeat to an amateur team from the tiny principality of Andorra. 

Daniel Mackay came on as a sub in that game

With ICT, he got to a Scottish Cup Final

With Hibs, he'll get one shot and getting some duty free lol

[Yngwie]

Inter Club Escaldes are not even the best side in Andorra. In fact they are not even the best side in the village of Escalades!

[big cherly]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:40 PM, MrCaleyjag said:

What's your actual problem with the Supporters Trust Board that you seem to think it's ok to come on here and slate them at every turn possible and points fingers?

Quite the statements given your relative new found voice on here and very little content.

I would suggest that users on here who are part of the Supporters Trust are here in the same capacity as you and I, to post our feelings with like minded people and scan for fans views. 

Maybe instead of pointing fingers and coming across as being slightly childish, especially in matchday threads, you should contact the Trust direct and see if you can get some help or answers from them direct. Knowing that the Trust works on behalf of the fans, I am sure they'd only be too willing to assist in any way they can if you put it across in a more constructive manner to them direct.

Good, hit a nerve and a worthy repost.

 I will be succinct and concise as I can!
 
Why, Well principally two reasons,

1)    As long as there is no Supporters Trust link or representation to the Forum, then their fair game.

The purpose of the ST in their headline webpage is ‘Representing the fans of Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC’ - A bridge between the club and its supporters.  – Then the forum is where I would expect a wider and more spread fan representation where sensible debate on the more serious matters relating to the clubs are aired and discussed.(#) 
The posting of alleged foul language by the management team is up there as an example. Right now, there is no way via the forum to understand whether the Supports Trust think this matter is of importance or whether they would take the matter up with the club’s representatives in a timely manner and seriousness that the club would address the ‘complaint’. Whether the club feel they have to do anything about it is part of my second point.  

 # The case I hear is join the supporters trust. Well I disagree here in that any ICT fan should have a voice and platform to air serious alleged grievances such as the one above without having to join a club. Or indeed have to take the matter up on their own directly with the club and hope that some action is taken and a reply issued, ( their track record here on communication needs no further words).  

2)    Does the ST Board represent the full spectrum of the fans in the redress to their voting rights? 

I understand from the posters the Supporters Trust Board carries 10% voting rights and is second largest voting block with ICT. Are the fans views across the spectrum of the support reflected in their submission to the club? If the supporters trust only represent their members, (I’ll guess a 2 or 3 hundred number of mostly 50 plus aged members) is this truly representative of reflective enough.  – The two main examples or issues for me is a) the poor to little incentives for increasing the younger fan base, and b) the two-year contact for the manager. 
On the latter there are many fans that did not agree with the decision to award him a two-year contract extension based on the performances and style of play for the past two seasons. Unless the decision to award BD the new contract as solely down to the CEO and Chairman I would consider the STB were signatories to this decision.  – That’s Ok if this was the case, but it would be useful for the fans to know. 

So, concluding,  – My having a pop at the supporter trust board isn’t an attract on any individual, (if it is taken as such then it’s my place here to correct that and apologise). My efforts and focus are prosecuting what I think is in the best future long term interests of the club I support. For me the Supporters Trust has to reach out to a wider and dare I say it a younger fan base and the Forum (not sure twitter or their equivalents are ‘solid’ enough), is the artery that a ST representative, (doesn’t need to be named), can comment on pertinent matters considered by the CTO high heid yins to support can be made. 

Anyway – I’ve had my say, I can move on!! 
bc
 

[Yngwie]

Good of you to elaborate on your feelings. However, IMO, your logic is all over the place.

[+DoofersDad]

I am no longer on the Supporters Trust Board and so can't speak on their behalf, but I am the immediate past Chair and therefore can give some informed comment on the interactions between the Trust and the Club, and how it tries to represent the wider fan base.  It is true that the Trust could be more active on this forum, but it does take note of issues that are raised here and takes some of these to the Club.  However, the problem is that when these issues are brought up, the stock response is that the Club is not going to make changes just because a handful of people on social media are having a moan about something.  When the Trust responds that as the representative fans body, and having spoken with others, they believe this to be a wider concern, the club dismisses the claim of the the Trust to be representative due to the level of its membership.

This is a major reason why the Trust carried out the Supporters Matchday Survey earlier in the year.  This survey asked fans about a wide range of issues associated with the matchday experience and, as a result, the report will provide views of a large and generally representative number of fans.  Where the survey reveals a general unhappiness regarding a specific topic it will therefore not be possible to dismiss it as the views of a small minority of folk who like to moan.  The survey has involved a lot of work and should mark a significant milestone in developing the collaborative working between the Club and its supporters through the Trust. My understanding is that the Trust Board will be meeting Club representatives next week regarding the survey report and that the report will be issued more widely soon after.  Hopefully, the report will pave the way for some detailed interactions on a range of issues and that this will provide opportunities for a wide range of people to get involved.

It is true that the Trust is nothing like as representative as it should be or as the Trust Board would like it to be.  And it needs to be more representative if the Trust is to effectively engage with the club in exploring the issued raised by the survey.  The Trust has regularly reached out to the wider fan base to get more involved, but if people don't want to join or help in the aims of the Trust, the Board can't force them to!  Hopefully the survey report will convince many more people of the value of having a strong and representative Supporters Trust to be the link between the fans and the Club.  This is why it is so exasperating for Trust Board members to read people criticising the Trust and giving excuses as to why they don't join.  Every time someone does that it makes it easier for the Club to say the Trust is not representative.  It also makes it harder for the Trust to do the very things people are criticising them for not doing.  If you think the Trust should be doing more, join it and help them do it!

 

[Robert]

Well said DD.

Im a member of the ST but other commitments mean I’ve been unable to do more.

BC mentioned that the ST must have agreed to the Manager’s new contract.

That will not be the case. Shareholders get their say about company business at the AGM in the main but business decisions (contracts, signings etc) are down to those running the club.

Presumably the Board delegate powers to the CEO and Manager up to set financial thresholds and if they wish to go outwith those thresholds they need to consult the Board.

For the Manager’s contract I’d think the CEO would have consulted the Chairman and possibly the full Board, but definitely not any shareholders.