Saturday really is a huge match for us. Possibly the biggest in the history of ICT.12 points behind, if we win it's back to 9 and I believe promotion is still achievable. Lose, 15 points back and realistically it is all over.

If we win on Saturday and follow it up with a win over County the perhaps some momentum will be generated and the promotion push can re-ignite.

Should we lose we are condemned to another season in Div 1, the knock on effect on finances and personnel and the reality is the club takes a massive step backward. I can't think of a match involving ICT where so much has been potentially been at stake for the future of the club. Even the Falkirk match didn't have as much riding on it, even though it transpires to have been the catalyst for the situation we now find ourselves in.

Possibly the biggest in the history of ICT.

Not even in the top 100.

And I really can't believe people are still talking about promotion.

Aye well... here's hoping. IF we win and IF it sparks a losing streak for Dundee then maybe. I honestly can't see that happening to Dundee. They're winning games comfortably (from their scorelines) and I can't see where our goals are going to come from. The Pars were there for the taking yesterday and we didn't do it. I still think we should be playing Barrowman. Just my humble opinion though.

Saturday really is a huge match for us. Possibly the biggest in the history of ICT

Shame that when it comes to a big high presure match we always seem to bottle it

I'm inclined to agree with Yngwie.... Our season is all but finished.

The worrying part for me is the Catch 22 situation we are now in. Unable to even talk about rebuilding for next season until the present management team move on at the end of this one.

Our remaining fixtures now look to be pretty meaningless.

I too agree with Yngwie, the very slim chance we do have of promotion will be taken from us on boxing day and then another defeat to county will hopefully force Butcher to resign.

I too agree with Yngwie, the very slim chance we do have of promotion will be taken from us on boxing day and then another defeat to county will hopefully force Butcher to resign.

Can't argue with that. Stranger things have happened in football however, but, it isn't going to happen with ICT - not this season.

I agree with most. Not only do Dundee have to start dropping points, they have to do that, whilst somehow not giving points to all the teams above us too.

Do what Rangers did in Walter Smith's last season. Start talking to the next manager now, or offer Butcher a longer contract. I'd prefer the former but could live with the latter. We need long-term planning to get out of this hole. But if we start now, then it's all to play for next season. There's no Dundee and Falkirk will have lost a lot of players.

I too agree with Yngwie, the very slim chance we do have of promotion will be taken from us on boxing day and then another defeat to county will hopefully force Butcher to resign.

He won't resign - he's contracted with ICT until the end of the season.

I'd settle for a draw in this game, but a smash and grab win as per Dingwall earlier in the month would be nice.Hopefully you will see a differant Dundee team to the one at Dens earlier in the year,the team spirit and attitude since the cup final has been brilliant.Win, lose or draw,I think most are correct in ICT are too far back to challenge for promotion now and whilst i dont think we will run away with the league, the main challenge will still come from Partick with QOTS and Coonty taking points off most teams especially in Dumfries and Dingwall.

Anyway folks, have a great Christmas and see ya's doon the Longman on Boxing day provided Tommy can get the pitch playable

I must be the only one that thinks QotS are not up to it then. I thought they were rubbish and will no way sustain a challenge to the end. It is a long shot now, but write us off at your peril, we still have to play you three times, twice in Inverness. Lets say, we win all three games, what then, squeaky bum time. I know it's highly unlikely, but what if..........

A two nil start, more likely a four goal start that our final play deserved.

Keep looking over yer shoulder.

Thats the spirit Mannie!!! think we have to be a wee bit positive, If only we could convert chances to goals, that is the difference.

From a footballing sense i've not seen anything about Dee that scares me.. just putting the ball in the net, with Barrenman not getting a game, Foran not looking anywhere near 20 goals and Sandshooes hardly prolific it leaves Rooney as out main striker, and his hit rate is hellish although he tries hard.

Anyway saturday (if the game is on) will be a test of the players resolve and we will see what they are made of.

Remarkably little recognision on this thread that apart from Dundee there are also three other teams to catch. QOS and Partick also have a game in hand and then theres a certain Ross County who are five points clear of us.

But there is only one team to catch really, and thats the one that tops the league, the rest don't matter.

Come the end of Feb, the boys will be sorted from the men.

But there is only one team to catch really, and thats the one that tops the league, the rest don't matter.

Yes they do if we catch Dundee but not PT, QOS or County. Thats a total of 22 points to catch up on four teams in front of us and two of them also have a game in hand on us.

Simples, win all our games until the season ends............promotion.

None of the others mentioned have got the squads to challenge for promotion realistically.

I suppose we are in that bracket too, but if you aint got hope, then you aint got nothing.

last time we won it we only dropped two points at home all season plus were good away from home. we just dont have that grit or whatever it is this time round.

i think butcher will be gone one way or the other in january if we dont win our next two games

I think we will have Butcher for the remainder of the season no matter what.

He has a contract which we will not write off and he has no job to go to, so why would he walk? we can only hope he turns it round starting saturday.... ie scoring more than the opposition.

I don't rate our title hopes at all anymore but all it would take is one win and then who knows...

I don't see how everyone has given up hope... Dundee are no world beaters and will lose points a long the way. We are starting to sort out our defence.. everything's to play for

Not even in the top 100.

And I really can't believe people are still talking about promotion.

Promotion is still possible but the point I was making was that the Dundee match could pretty much end our interest as 15 points is too big a gap, 9 is do-able especially with facing each other twice more. The half-full as opposed to half-empty approach I guess! Also if we are consigned to Division 1 again, the huge knock on effect on finances means even less money being available for players, the standard drops again and we take another huge step back.

With the comments in the P&J regarding not signing anyone up until the position is clear, it's obvious to me that the club see a huge amount riding on the festive fixtures and the results and decisions made as a result could affect us for years to come. That's why I think this is potentially one of the biggest games in our history.

I will be following on the radio or on teletext or whatever you youngsters call it these days.

If we finish above county this season thats good enough for me.

If we finish above county this season thats good enough for me.

If we can beat them in the league at some point this season i would be happy.

If we finish above county this season thats good enough for me.

If we can beat them in the league at some point this season i would be happy.

Both are a must or Butcher doesn't even get the option to stay

Edited December 21, 200916 yr by Harry Chibber

I'm with bridgender on this one. Saturday is MASSIVE. In terms of it's possible influence on the club (revenue, players staying/ going, the board etc.) it could be one of our biggest games in years. Winning could propel this season forward in a way that no other result could. And please, naysayers, don't tell me that this is impossible after I watched the game at Dens earlier and the first half of the cup final. They are not that far apart. Follow that up with a win against c*unty and Robert is indeed yer Da's brother.