what a joke!

spl refs are getting a raise after last years horific performances from them

imo in scotland we only have 1 or 2 decent refs

I expect at least a 5% increase in their performance taking the majority to the "Above Useless" level of efficiency.

Whole day of work + travelling time. Media scrutiny and pressure... Don't knock them until you try it.

ok Ref.. we know where you stay.

It always amazes me when people complain about referee performance and pay.

We have a situation where football is professional where players are identified at 10 years of age, nurtured, placed in special programs so they can be ready for professional football.

A simiar program should be in place for referees. What about targeting players that don't make it as professionals. Nurturing them, build refeering programs - in essence build a career path for them and then pay them appropriatly as professionals.

The result would be professional players being refereed by referees of at least a similar standard.

Whole day of work + travelling time. Media scrutiny and pressure... Don't knock them until you try it.

I wouldn't pushing for a wage rise had my performances been roundly criticised over the past year. I accept that these guys are not full time and they can make mistakes but it's the significance of (some of) these errors which are, at times, criminal.

Does this new remuneration package include an additional bonus each time they award a penalty to the OF?

Or has that always been there?

Whole day of work + travelling time. Media scrutiny and pressure... Don't knock them until you try it.

Still doesn't justify the level of wage and the fact they've got a 5% increase across the board...regardless of performance.

It wouldn't bother me so much if they were putting in a weeks work/training/CPD, but they aren't. Most of them seem to manage to hold down other full time jobs whilst being referees...so I doubt the hours invested in being a referee are that considerable. How can they possibly justify a full-time wage?...which is what they are getting (and more).

If they want a professional wage (without complaint) then I don't think it's too much to expect them to invest the time in being professional in their training and preparation for the job and also in their performance on the pitch.

I can't think of any other profession where you could be slated from every angle for your performance and then stick your hand out and expect a pay increase the following year (apart from politicians and bankers). In fact, if anyone in just about any other profession performed as poorly as most of our refs then they'd be down the job centre right now.

I don't blame the refs, if I thought I could get that much money for that little work and not have to worry about performing at my best then I'd be doing it as well. It's the system that's to blame and just like every other aspect of the the way the game is run at the top level in this country....it's a shambles.

Getting away from performance for the minute. Refs are not full time. Nor do they officiate every week. The SFA has 31 category 1 referee's, according to their site, and I dont know how many lower grade. Only the cat 1 get paid the published figure. The lower grades get nothing near that and the bottom grades are lucky to be able to cover expenses. That said I think Tug has a serious point. Refereeing should be a full time job. It should be a career and when they are not officiating they should be training and learning. Working with clubs and with each other to become consistant. They should also be looking at ways of incorporating technology into what they do.

Getting away from performance for the minute. Refs are not full time. Nor do they officiate every week. The SFA has 31 category 1 referee's, according to their site, and I dont know how many lower grade. Only the cat 1 get paid the published figure. The lower grades get nothing near that and the bottom grades are lucky to be able to cover expenses. That said I think Tug has a serious point. Refereeing should be a full time job. It should be a career and when they are not officiating they should be training and learning. Working with clubs and with each other to become consistant. They should also be looking at ways of incorporating technology into what they do.

i do????

spooky but actually i dont think thats a bad idea...further to that would be intrested if any former players have gone into refereeing at a decent level?? would an ex player make a good ref?

Be careful what you wish for.

Employing ft ref would translate to increased prices at the gate or less money for employing staff/players.

Getting away from performance for the minute. Refs are not full time. Nor do they officiate every week. The SFA has 31 category 1 referee's, according to their site, and I dont know how many lower grade. Only the cat 1 get paid the published figure. The lower grades get nothing near that and the bottom grades are lucky to be able to cover expenses. That said I think Tug has a serious point. Refereeing should be a full time job. It should be a career and when they are not officiating they should be training and learning. Working with clubs and with each other to become consistant. They should also be looking at ways of incorporating technology into what they do.

i do????

spooky but actually i dont think thats a bad idea...further to that would be intrested if any former players have gone into refereeing at a decent level?? would an ex player make a good ref?

Sorry, should have said Gabby.

Be careful what you wish for.

Employing ft ref would translate to increased prices at the gate or less money for employing staff/players.

Not necessarily. refs are employed by SFA. Its time they put some of their funds to more productive use.

Full time refs would be under further increased pressure - pressure to get decisions right and explain the decisions they made. Remember they are making the decisions quite often in a split-second and don't have the benefit of seeing a replay. IMHO it wouldn't be a good idea. RiG - you're a fit young chap. Ever considered doing the course and taking it up?

In seriousness though, the SFA are actively encouraging more younger girls and guys go in to refereeing. I don't think the problem is with the refs per se, but more a case of the pressure placed on them. To hit Cat 1, you need to work up through the ranks doing juniors and u18 games etc - quite often on your own. Because there is so much pressure on players from parents, coaches etc this affects the behaviour both on and off the park. Of note, the physical aspect of the SFA requirements are far more stringent than UEFA.

I don't think young players should be joining clubs at such an early age (as Gabby says 10 years old). They should be allowed to enjoy the game and playing it. If this pressure was removed from their shoulders, then the pressure on the refs would lessen and we would have a larger pool of refs to rely on.

Another major factor IMHO is the behaviour and conduct of SPL players and coaches / managers. Youngsters look up to them as role models and emulate their behaviour and actions. The change does need to come from the top I think. I even noticed a tweet today from The Sun newspaper stating that "Neil Lennon is ready for battle against Hibs on Saturday". Sorry, it's not a battle Neil. It's a game of football. A game.

The sooner people realise this, the better. What I'd suggest to anyone who goes to a football match (perhaps a lower league game or even a game at the bught) is to watch the referee and compare them to the refs who do the SPL games. It's a tough shift. Don't knock it until you try it!

Edited July 21, 201114 yr by Top Six Next Year

TSNY, speaking as an ex-referee, albeit at the lowest rung, I wanted to post a comment on here but was struggling to find a way to do it - your post has hit the nail right on the head. Good post, and well deserved green dot.

It is easy for armchair generals to criticise the referee but this constant drip-drip-drip of negativity from fans, clubs and media can do nothing but erode the confidence of the referees at the higher level and introduce second-guessing, thereby creating a vicious circle that will only result in further damage to the game.

When I was trained I was told the best game you can have is one where you blow for the start, blow for the finish and only have to indicate the call when the ball goes over a line. But football more often than not isn't like that. And one "wrong" decision can affect the remainder of a match through ill-feeling or worry over having made a mistake.

Add to that the increase in television coverage where every action can be endlessly re-run and scrutinised and it becomes a cauldron. Not to mention the voracious need for scandal and intrigue by the media who crave controversy in order to maintain interest (so they believe) so that even minor infractions are blown up out of all proportion. Think about this - next time there is a game where there are a number of goals, one or more disputed penalties and a number of cautions or a sending off or two and listen to the introduction from the intro from the commentator, I guarantee it will be called "the game that has everything". Like it is something to be desired. And a game that has an excellent refereeing performance and maybe only one or even no goals? It will be portrayed as boring. But if it were the way most people seem to be asking for, should it not be the other way round?

By the way, can anyone tell me of one country in the world that does not criticise their referees in any way shape or form? Is England have a better than us or is it similar?

In essence, are you not just wishing for the impossible?

Not necessarily. refs are employed by SFA. Its time they put some of their funds to more productive use.

The SFA get a fee from the club for refs, FT referees = increased costs = increased fees = gate prices up.

one of the guys in my work is a cat 1 ref, albeit just turned cat 1. it is just the SPL refs that get this, div 1 get less, div 2 even less and div 3 even less.

remember without refs we have no game. remember we nearly lost a week of the season because the abuse from players/managers/clubs got to the point where it was ridiculous. i dont envy the referees, how many of us would actually want to be in the middle with 22 players doing anything to win but also berating every decision you make just about. how many of us can handle the pressure. ive always thought i would like to give it a go just to see how hard it is.

yes sometimes the performances have been substandard but everyone is human, everyone makes mistakes. im sure each one of us makes mistakes at work but have yearly increments in salary or hourly rate so we cant knock the refs for taking a pay increase.

yes they are not at the level of their english counterparts where they are full time but having spoke to a few they have regular training sessions, rules tests, fitness tests. they watch through dvds of their performances, teams they are going to be refing so they can see formations.

without refs we have no game and without a game we have no ICT!

I have been watching football for a long time. The refs have always been the target of shouting and the fans' displeasure. Only rarely have I heard any fan shout out .."great decision, ref". ! I used to clap smart decisions by them but not too many people would ever do that as I recall, more's the pity.

The above post is definitely a good one. We have to cut slack for these folks; although I do agree that at the current salary levels now mooted or agreed upon, they should become full time and undergo training and reviews on a regular basis, not to put them down or to reduce their confidence level but to strengthen their understanding and improve their performance. All aspects of this type of training should be fuly supported by all persons in the game., including players who often are the sole source of the troubles refs have to face by diving and initiating professional fouls

. If we could stamp out the is type of action by players the game would be abetter to watch, anyway.

Years ago, say around the 1960's, there were quite a few ref "characters" in the A Division of Scottish Football. One of these whom I will never forget was one, J R P Gordon of Newport on Tay, who was an extraordinary fellow. J R P made as many mistakes, some rather farcical,against the opposition as well as against the home team so all evened itself out at the end of the day. His physical style of dominating the game included not quite keeping up with thwe play and when he detected an infringement he would race at full tilt to the spot where the alleged offence occurred all the while with his body bent forward at a distinct angle and with his arm out at full length pointing to that spot. This made for stirring theatrics almost like his whistle was a bugel anf he was charging forward on horseback with the Light Brigade with his sword way out in front of him. Amusing as all this was nobody seemed to hate the guy; in fact you could not but like him because he was so human and of course it was palpably obvious that JRP was always doing HIS best to be fair.And the word "diving" had not yet entered the dictionary in these days.

So, the bottom line is, IMHO, that if we are going to shout dog's abuse at refs then we must take some of the load off their shoulders about taking responsibility for all the decisions in these highly technical and emotion-charged days. i.e we MUST introduce video technology along the goalmouth lines, etc., so that he /she can consult the images or, as in North American ice hockey, let the judges make instantaneous judgements in the booth upstairs based on their review of the video on controversial incidents. For me , this is a no-brainer and why this has not yet been implementeed is astonishing.

Good post Ruairidh and I do agree with a lot of what you say but what concerns me is the standard overall at all levels. I do think that officials are getting worse. The reason for this I don't know but I've seen a noticeable decline in the standards of not just referees but also their assistants/ linesman. Bring back Willie Young!

RiG - you're a fit young chap. Ever considered doing the course and taking it up?

I doubt I'd have the time but I am sure it would be an interesting experience.

I don't think young players should be joining clubs at such an early age (as Gabby says 10 years old). They should be allowed to enjoy the game and playing it. If this pressure was removed from their shoulders, then the pressure on the refs would lessen and we would have a larger pool of refs to rely on.

I think as finances tighten and more and more clubs are will look towards youth and seek to hoover up kids at as young an age as possible to get them through their system and ultimately into the first team. I do agree though that even with kids there is increased pressure put on them to succeed (to an extent) during games which in turn leads to pressure on the referee as they argue decisions. Having watched some of the U 12's through to U17s with Aberdeen it's hard not to notice that they talk back to the referee in a manner I have never seen before. I don't think that they get that directly from the coaches I think they get that from current players and managers in the "big leagues" as you mention below.

Another major factor IMHO is the behaviour and conduct of SPL players and coaches / managers. Youngsters look up to them as role models and emulate their behaviour and actions. The change does need to come from the top I think. I even noticed a tweet today from The Sun newspaper stating that "Neil Lennon is ready for battle against Hibs on Saturday". Sorry, it's not a battle Neil. It's a game of football. A game.

This I think is the catalyst to it all. The behaviour of players and managers in the SPL, EPL etc are mirrored by kids in the youth teams and that includes the attitude problems as well! If kids see Neil Lennon acting like a fanny during a game then they seem to think this gives them licence to do this also and disrespect referees.

The game generates many millions of pounds each year yet the key "on field" decisions are made by glorified amateurs. This is not fair to the professional players that train hard or the fans that spend their hard earned watching them.

Referees would be more accountable if they were fulltime, professional because it would be their main source of income.

Also, it looks like the A League will be following the other professional football codes in Australia by having microphones on the referees left on during TV coverage.

This technology is also available for fans at the stadium using an earpeice that can be purchased. It certainly helps fans to know what the ref's are thinking when they make decisions. The audio also includes converstations between the Refs and Players.

Edited July 23, 201114 yr by Gabby