Does anybody know if CJT still exists? 

1 hour ago, Charles Bannerman said:

So, in these times of internal political uncertainty, what mechanism exists for casting the 10% of votes to which the supporters are entitled in the event of a poll in the foreseeable future?

yet another shafting  engineered by the builder. let's not forget this was the only way the legacy from Caley and Thistle could be retained and now it's in the hands of a totally inefficient organisation which is rudderless. I wonder what the legal position is here?

3 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

So, in these times of internal political uncertainty, what mechanism exists for casting the 10% of votes to which the supporters are entitled in the event of a poll in the foreseeable future?

None

Just a thought. A lot of complaints against cjt, instead of moaning why not be pro active and join the board/committee to help them out. My experience with any kind of committee is that everybody moans and whinges at them yet are unwilling to put the time and effort into helping them   Thankless task 

3 minutes ago, jagster said:

Just a thought. A lot of complaints against cjt, instead of moaning why not be pro active and join the board/committee to help them out. My experience with any kind of committee is that everybody moans and whinges at them yet are unwilling to put the time and effort into helping them   Thankless task 

See my post of the 29th August...

http://caleythistleonline.com/topic/31574-caley-jags-together/?do=findComment&comment=482289

I’ve always admired the time and effort you have put into everything ICT Caleyd I certainty wasn’t having a dig at you. Just that we seem to have b come a bunch of moaning Minnie’s 

Edited December 7, 20178 yr by jagster

58 minutes ago, jagster said:

I’ve always admired the time and effort you have put into everything ICT Caleyd I certainty wasn’t having a dig at you. Just that we seem to have b come a bunch of moaning Minnie’s 

There are others, in the same boat as me, who have joined the board to try and move things forward but have found they are fighting a losing battle with people currently on the board or recently departed.  There's been a very unhealthy attitude that just because things are done with (apparent) good intention, then they should not be questioned or criticised.

The phrase "it was done in good faith" has, and still gets thrown around a lot by members of the society board.  It's a term that has it's place and it's even legislated for within the society rules....doing something in good faith and getting it wrong is when you find yourself having to make a snap decision and don't get it quite right, or when you operate on the basis of something being done historically, only to find it wasn't perhaps the correct way to be doing it.  Showing deliberate disregard for the rules just because you don't like them or they don't fit with your motives or even because you don't understand them....or don't know them, even though you have been a director for a number of years....is not acting in good faith, it's incompetent and irresponsible.

On no less than 11 occasions during the AGM on Tuesday, the person chairing the meeting stated that they could not answer a question or clarify a situation because they did not know the society rules.  They used the excuse that they were not due to be the person chairing the meeting....and you could have perhaps excused that, except....they have served on the board for around 10 years so have had ample opportunity to familiarise themselves with the rules, even the change to rules in 2012.  They didn't seem to know what rules the society is suppose to actually be operating under and were talking about registering changes that hadn't even been before and voted on by a general meeting of the members!!  What's more, the same person chaired the last AGM in February 2016* and on a number of occasions during that they also failed to answer questions and points of ordered with the excuse that they did not know the society rules.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here....if this society is shut down, and it's a very real risk if the Financial Conduct Authority (who are their regulator) believe it is not operating as it should, then the fan's 10% voting right is gone...forever.  It doesn't transfer to anyone else, it disappears.  It only exists so long as the 108 shares to which it is attached are held by the Inverness Caledonian Thistle Supporters Society Limited.

If you think something needs to be done, you're damn right it does.  The society members need to stand up and make sure this is not allowed to continue.....and I suggest you all start by ensuring that you do not allow the current board to proceed with their plans to cancel over 700 memberships without having made proper contact with the entire membership base....they tried to tell those at the AGM that the society now only has 65(?) members.  Thankfully those in attendance did not accept that and the board agreed to keep those memberships active until the end of the current financial year (May 2018).

If trying to battle the above makes me (and others also trying to battle it) moaning minnies...then where do I pick up my badge?

*The AGM held on Tuesday was due to have taken place before the end of 2016, so was over 11 months late in taking place.  They couldn't even produce minutes for the EGM held in April 2016 to sort out the mess from the AGM 2 months earlier.

Thanks CD that’s probably the clearest explanation about it all I’ve read on this thread and I understand it better now. Apologies for the moaning Minnie’s tag 

seems like it’s quite a mess 

8 hours ago, CaleyD said:

There are others, in the same boat as me, who have joined the board to try and move things forward but have found they are fighting a losing battle with people currently on the board or recently departed.  There's been a very unhealthy attitude that just because things are done with (apparent) good intention, then they should not be questioned or criticised.

The phrase "it was done in good faith" has, and still gets thrown around a lot by members of the society board.  It's a term that has it's place and it's even legislated for within the society rules....doing something in good faith and getting it wrong is when you find yourself having to make a snap decision and don't get it quite right, or when you operate on the basis of something being done historically, only to find it wasn't perhaps the correct way to be doing it.  Showing deliberate disregard for the rules just because you don't like them or they don't fit with your motives or even because you don't understand them....or don't know them, even though you have been a director for a number of years....is not acting in good faith, it's incompetent and irresponsible.

On no less than 11 occasions during the AGM on Tuesday, the person chairing the meeting stated that they could not answer a question or clarify a situation because they did not know the society rules.  They used the excuse that they were not due to be the person chairing the meeting....and you could have perhaps excused that, except....they have served on the board for around 10 years so have had ample opportunity to familiarise themselves with the rules, even the change to rules in 2012.  They didn't seem to know what rules the society is suppose to actually be operating under and were talking about registering changes that hadn't even been before and voted on by a general meeting of the members!!  What's more, the same person chaired the last AGM in February 2016* and on a number of occasions during that they also failed to answer questions and points of ordered with the excuse that they did not know the society rules.

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here....if this society is shut down, and it's a very real risk if the Financial Conduct Authority (who are their regulator) believe it is not operating as it should, then the fan's 10% voting right is gone...forever.  It doesn't transfer to anyone else, it disappears.  It only exists so long as the 108 shares to which it is attached are held by the Inverness Caledonian Thistle Supporters Society Limited.

If you think something needs to be done, you're damn right it does.  The society members need to stand up and make sure this is not allowed to continue.....and I suggest you all start by ensuring that you do not allow the current board to proceed with their plans to cancel over 700 memberships without having made proper contact with the entire membership base....they tried to tell those at the AGM that the society now only has 65(?) members.  Thankfully those in attendance did not accept that and the board agreed to keep those memberships active until the end of the current financial year (May 2018).

If trying to battle the above makes me (and others also trying to battle it) moaning minnies...then where do I pick up my badge?

*The AGM held on Tuesday was due to have taken place before the end of 2016, so was over 11 months late in taking place.  They couldn't even produce minutes for the EGM held in April 2016 to sort out the mess from the AGM 2 months earlier.

very informative CaleyD. thanks.

For the sake of balance it would be good if we could hear from one of the committee.  Who is on there now?

Yes,  there is a serious lack of transparency here - regardless of the buts, ifs, and howevers.  No info on CJT website about AGM or anything (defunct)  no info on Facebook and no info here.  Supporters of Caley Thistle know more about the ICTFC board than CJTs.  How has this been allowed to happen?  

Can someone from CJT comment? 

 

what a shambles.  if this organisation fails the supporters give up our 10% voting power which we may need to use in the future. sad to see this situation.

1 hour ago, Glover said:

Yes,  there is a serious lack of transparency here - regardless of the buts, ifs, and howevers.  No info on CJT website about AGM or anything (defunct)  no info on Facebook and no info here.  Supporters of Caley Thistle know more about the ICTFC board than CJTs.  How has this been allowed to happen?  

Can someone from CJT comment? 

 

 

3 hours ago, Buster said:

For the sake of balance it would be good if we could hear from one of the committee.  Who is on there now?

I fear you might wait some time. As far as I know, the only remaining Board Members are Liz MacRae (Chairperson) and Laura Grant (who chaired the last two AGM's) Cliff Sim was elected on the night. Laura intimated her intention to resign at the AGM and must now go, so there is effectively no Board. The AGM was a farce, I'm not going to dwell on it as Caley D has covered it adequately. What has happened here is that the were members of that Board who are wholly responsible through their actions and inactions for the situation that has transpired. Liz must be wondering what she got herself into. 65 members? I know of at least that number who they couldn't be bothered to contact.

We need to build bridges with the club, right now. We need to build bridges with the social club, right now. We need to adequately deal with the issues within the support (young team etc.) and communicate to the outside world. We need to sort CJT administratively and make it accountable to the membership. The situation whereby a membership can be reduced from 700 to 65 without telling them simply as a means of forcing an agenda can't be allowed to recur. As with all orgnisations of it's size, there's a small body of activists that serve a larger membership but more need to help out. I'm up for it.It's an important time for CJT and I hope that others can join us to take it forward.

Edited December 8, 20178 yr by davie

16 hours ago, CaleyD said:

Let's get one thing absolutely clear here....if this society is shut down, and it's a very real risk if the Financial Conduct Authority (who are their regulator) believe it is not operating as it should, then the fan's 10% voting right is gone...forever.  It doesn't transfer to anyone else, it disappears.  It only exists so long as the 108 shares to which it is attached are held by the Inverness Caledonian Thistle Supporters Society Limited.

If you think something needs to be done, you're damn right it does.  The society members need to stand up and make sure this is not allowed to continue.....and I suggest you all start by ensuring that you do not allow the current board to proceed with their plans to cancel over 700 memberships without having made proper contact with the entire membership base....they tried to tell those at the AGM that the society now only has 65(?) members.  Thankfully those in attendance did not accept that and the board agreed to keep those memberships active until the end of the current financial year (May 2018).

If trying to battle the above makes me (and others also trying to battle it) moaning minnies...then where do I pick up my badge?

 

3 hours ago, caleyboy said:

what a shambles.  if this organisation fails the supporters give up our 10% voting power which we may need to use in the future. sad to see this situation.

 

2 hours ago, davie said:

As far as I know, the only remaining Board Members are Liz MacRae (Chairperson) and Laura Grant (who chaired the last two AGM's) Cliff Sim was elected on the night. Laura intimated her intention to resign at the AGM and must now go, so there is effectively no Board. 

We need to build bridges with the club, right now. We need to build bridges with the social club, right now. We need to adequately deal with the issues within the support (young team etc.) and communicate to the outside world. We need to sort CJT administratively and make it accountable to the membership. The situation whereby a membership can be reduced from 700 to 65 without telling them simply as a means of forcing an agenda can't be allowed to recur. As with all orgnisations of it's size, there's a small body of activists that serve a larger membership but more need to help out. I'm up for it.It's an important time for CJT and I hope that others can join us to take it forward.

 

Ok, how do we do this? and what if anything can CTO do to help or support those trying to get it done. A 10% voting stake in the club cannot be allowed to disappear in a puff of smoke just like that and CJT needs to be the voice of all fans not just for a few select members. For my own part, heres how I reckon we might be of some assistance on CTO if CJT does indeed begin to rebuild itself from the foundations up./ 

• We are happy to give people a platform to discuss CJT on here or to promote it. (already offered it)
• We are happy to establish the 'groups' function within our software to give them whats in effect a website within a website (or to help them get their own back up and running) if required. (already offered it)
• We are happy to host and distribute membership forms and applications through our downloads section (or the aforementioned groups section). (already do that)
• If possible (need to check) we are also happy to add membership applications to the shop for purchase on here ... where payment can go direct to CJT and not through CTO (assuming they have at least a paypal setup)

Much like the comments about our chairmen in another thread, this is a situation where egos, parochialism, or personal control issues need to be put aside and cannot be allowed to negatively affect the body that the people involved have signed up to show good governance for on our behalf. I know CaleyD and Davie are very forthright and direct, and that bluntness may rub a few people up the wrong way at times, but both of them have shown on numerous occasions with their roles in the ICT arena that they have skillsets we could do with sorting this out. Caleyboy - you have also asked some very pertinent questions at the most opportune moments and I am sure there are many others who could bring something to the table, or to the discussion.     

 

 

As above:  ‘if CJT does indeed begin to rebuild itself from the foundations up’ - is there any moves towards the EGM?  I want to join CJT and help stop this 10% being lost. 

On reading accounts of the recent AGM, was it even legal / accepted under

society rules?

Board members should be prepared for an AGM, know the rules etc.

700 members, majority of whom seem to have not been even

contacted ? 

Can the board nominate and elect a new board member when it is so complicit in bringing the rules of t h e association into disrepute. ( absolutely no offence intended to Mr Sim ).

This is quite shameful and the CJT board for whatever reason (s) appear to have acted inappropriately. 

How has it slipped into such a shameful state of affairs?

Deplorable, quite frankly.

Communication is a basic and fundamental function of such an association

and it appears the current CJT board are unable or unwilling to offer even the minimum of efforts to serve their association and membership.

Perhaps they should either explain their reasons or motives for fair

hearing (although it appears that that time may have already passed) or simply 

resign and allow others, suitable and willing, to take up board membership and drive CJT forward into a functional future, o n e that befits a supporters association of a professional football club such as ours.

  It will take much determination, spirit and the utilisation of many skills to pick up this fallen and failed organisation. 

In the current climate where the Football Board of ICT numbers only four and faces a possible potentially damaging campaign by Savco ( Savage/MacGilvary), it is imperative that supporters retain their 10% voting share. 

Does o n e of the current board not work for with Savco's close allies ?

If so, clarification on that position should be sought. 

CJT for t h e future, for the fans, of the fans!!

Edited December 8, 20178 yr by A Sofa In San Tropez

Think most folk on here know my feelings on Caleyjagsforever so I won’t go over old ground but I also won’t claim to say I told you so either

We should remember these type of fan groups do not represent the entire clubs support, however they can cross the line when they try and act like they do so

New board members might make a difference but everyone needs to be reading from the same hymnsheet therefore getting the correct folk in is vitally important but they should be vetted first not just added because they are keen

Background checks are a must

 

Dougal

 

 

Edited December 8, 20178 yr by dougal

One way or another, this situation must be resolved sooner rather than later.  The club itself could be heading for difficult times and it may be that the supporters voting share has an important role to play in shaping the future of the club.  If that was to be the case, it is imperative that there are no questions about the legitimacy of CJT to have those votes or about the fact that those CJT officers using the vote truly represent the supporters.

I was unable to attend the AGM but have since written to CJT to express some concerns about both the paperwork (or lack of it) in relation to the AGM and the general lack of communication from and information about CJT.  Given the importance of retaining the 10% voting share I reiterated a previous offer to help behind the scenes.  I concluded by writing "I don't know any of the people involved in CJT personally, nor do I even know who most of them are, and therefore I have no preconceived view on where any responsibility for the current failures of CJT lie.  I am willing to help behind the scenes but, as outlined above, I really  need to know a bit more about CJT first.  I need to be assured that the help I might give is working towards specific and appropriate goals."

That offer of help applies to CJT whoever might be taking it forward, provided that they have or are developing a clear programme of working towards specific and appropriate goals.

23 hours ago, A Sofa In San Tropez said:

On reading accounts of the recent AGM, was it even legal / accepted under

society rules?

Board members should be prepared for an AGM, know the rules etc.

700 members, majority of whom seem to have not been even

contacted ? 

Can the board nominate and elect a new board member when it is so complicit in bringing the rules of t h e association into disrepute. ( absolutely no offence intended to Mr Sim ).

This is quite shameful and the CJT board for whatever reason (s) appear to have acted inappropriately. 

How has it slipped into such a shameful state of affairs?

Deplorable, quite frankly.

Communication is a basic and fundamental function of such an association

and it appears the current CJT board are unable or unwilling to offer even the minimum of efforts to serve their association and membership.

Perhaps they should either explain their reasons or motives for fair

hearing (although it appears that that time may have already passed) or simply 

resign and allow others, suitable and willing, to take up board membership and drive CJT forward into a functional future, o n e that befits a supporters association of a professional football club such as ours.

  It will take much determination, spirit and the utilisation of many skills to pick up this fallen and failed organisation. 

In the current climate where the Football Board of ICT numbers only four and faces a possible potentially damaging campaign by Savco ( Savage/MacGilvary), it is imperative that supporters retain their 10% voting share. 

Does o n e of the current board not work for with Savco's close allies ?

If so, clarification on that position should be sought. 

CJT for t h e future, for the fans, of the fans!!

why do you think the savco situation may be potentially damaging? 

Disappointing that the committee don't appear willing to communicate with fans. How can they expect to sort things out if they do not speak to people to explain what's wrong and how others can help? It all seems very closed shop. Why?

I think that is the crux of the matter - it is pretty much defunct:

The AGM has no committee (to speak of); no website or social media; no agency (in abeyance) and so (CJT) is basically a shell.  Very happy to hear otherwise.  Unless the EGM is announced very soon (that too would require someone to do something) then sadly I think that 10% will disappear as soon as the club require (CJT) to vote.

Regardless of who is/isn’t associated with (CJT) I think it needs those outwith (CJT) to take action not the other way round.

Again, very happy to be corrected by someone from (CJT )

 

(     )= abstract noun

Edited December 10, 20178 yr by Glover

The Club (ICTFC) have no say whatsoever in the operation of CJT and have no authority to wind it up (or otherwise).

CJT can only be wound up by the members or shut down by the regulators; it is the latter which poses the biggest risk, IMO.

My understanding of the options are based on the rules I have to hand and which I believe are/should be in force.  However, nobody representing the board at the AGM was able to confirm this and/or provide a copy of the rules which they claim to be working under.  They also seemed to want to work to rules which had not yet been registered!

1. As the AGM gave the board instruction to hold an EGM at the earliest opportunity in order to rectify the situation with it being non-operational, then they have 28 days in order to make that happen.  Should they fail, then any 3 people in attendance at the AGM can act on behalf of the members to call an EGM in order to do that.

2. Any 20 members can give written instruction to the board to call an EGM and state the purpose of that meeting.  A failure to hold that meeting within 28 days would allow any 3 of those 20 to act on behalf of the members to call and hold that meeting.

Until there's an operational board in place, then any/all other disputes are secondary.  With that in mind, my view would be that the first option is the one to be followed and it is a process that is already underway.

That means that a meeting should be held on or before the 3rd January 2018, with notice being given 14 clear days prior to that (19th December 2017).

Thanks for the explanation.

Assuming that the current position is salvaged, is there scope for new members joining?

I am sure many on here, with the club's best interests at heart, who would be happy to get involved.

Absolutely. There should be (and is) nothing stopping anyone who has the interests of the Club, and the community it operates in, from joining.

Good to know:  so, up to and not beyond the 19th there will be an announcement of when the EGM will be,  to take place between 25th Dec - 3rd January?

And what is the likelihood exactly of people in CJT actually complying with this timeframe and what happens if not?

If those currently on the committee, however well meaning or difficult their personal circumstances, have lost control of the situation or have got out of their depth then they need not be too proud to confess that that is the case and seek help from the many people with the best interests of the club and the supporters group at heart who are willing and able to help.

Please do so now before it it too late and the situation becomes irretrevable. 

Equally, those who have been critical, sometimes highly vocally so, should resist recrimination and act in a constructive and helpful manner.

Now is not the time for burying heads in the sand or for apportioning blame but for everybody to pull together to sort out this mess while we still can.

Edited December 10, 20178 yr by Kingsmills