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And when was the last time the UK had one of them? The day before Maggie Thatcher was elected in 1979 I would suggest. I have to say it always raises a bit of a giggle when I see them still singing The Red Flag at Labour Party conferences these days!

I've got a Dundee supporting colleague who was complaining recently that they never get awarded penalties. 'Ave it!

This topic was inevitable. It's very difficult to look at the league table at the moment without dreaming. Let me say first of all that i think finishing in 8th place this season would be a tremendous achievement. We're playing in a mini-league of the uber-skint with Killie, St.Mirren, St. Johnstone and Hamilton. As the new kids on the block we should be pleased just to be able to compete with them whilst ensuring that we don't finish bottom of the pile. Now that the realism is out of the way, i really want to play this dreaming game. In the first qualifying round, i'd like a crap Irish team in order to allow for the fans to baptise our maiden European voyage in style. A trip home for the Dubliners perhaps, a mass army of ICT fans on cheap Ryanair flights and a resounding victory over Bohemians. For the second tie, i'd like something more testing, more obscure but also winable. A bit of Balkan hostility, maybe a trip to Zagreb or Belgrade, a cheeky away win before being chased to the airport by ultras wielding flares and molotovs. The play-off is easy: Revenge for Marius, as a financially crippled Dinamo Bucharest get a taste of their own Euros. Not sure about the group stage yet.

I can't see Butcher going anywhere other than Europe...... .....with ICT next season ;)

"We went out wanting to win but some of the players were tired," said Foran. "They're playing every game and we didn't have the freshness for the last pass, the last touch. "I suppose it's better this result came early in the season as we'll be aware of it in the next match. "We have a small squad and we are feeling the demands of so many games. But it's not the end of the world as we're still fourth in the table. "We have to pick ourselves up for next Tuesday. You don't need motivation for the Scottish Premier League. When you come out on the pitch and hear that music it's a different world. It's such a vital game because if we win or draw we're still on our way to qualify for the top 6. "You don't feel tiredness in games like this. It's more mental. That's why we must forget Rangers and concentrate on Motherwell and Aberdeen." For those who have not seen Broughera's whinge, just change a few words in the above report.

Mr Cadbury met Miss Rowntree on a Double decker. It was just After Eight. They got off at Quality St, he asked her name. Polo, I'm the one with the hole, she said with a Whispa. I'm Marathon, the one with the nuts, he replied. He touched her Cream Eggs, then slipped his hand inside her Snickers. He fondled her Flapjacks, and she rubbed his Tic-Tacs. It was a fab moment and she screamed in Turkish Delight. But three days later his Sherbert Dib-Dab started to itch. Turns out Miss Rowntree had been with Bertie Bassett, and he had Allsorts.

On you go then - you've obviously got the foundation of a compact little tale.

Or, as I have been harping on about elsewhere, put in place systems that reduce the likelihood of it happening in the first place. One of the biggest problems is that the worst offenders in situations like this (the Board) are the ones who suffer least as they just up and out the door, leaving everyone else to clear up the mess. The only possible recourse would be for the shareholders to take action against them for negligence/corruption, but very difficult and expensive case to prove in court....especially as the companies Articles will be written to allow them (the Board) to do pretty much as they like, and unless you can prove personal gain on the part of a Director you're probably pissing in the wind. Quite simply, the business models being used do not fit football. What's most unfortunate is the decision makers within the Associations who could force change are the clubs and you're not going to get the Turkey voting for Christmas (which is why I think the proposal for working with HMRC for early warnings is unlikely to happen). SFA/SFL/SPL are suppose to be a regulatory body, but they have little/no powers to regulate how clubs operate beyond footballing matters. Until all the above changes then we'll continue to see clubs using Administration as a means for running up, then escaping from, huge debts.

Does this now mean there has been another 25 point swing against Dundee?

http://www.dundeefc.co.uk/news_detail_iframe.asp?h=25-POINTS-DEDUCTION&newsid=1284 I know people at Dundee will be hurting, but this statement will do nothing to win support from others. I fail to see how it's the SFL who have put the club at risk, that is something that lies squarely at the feet of their own Board and the sooner they realise that the better.

Not so shure maself - it was just a case of collision - you dont ger those type of decisions at Ibrox. Cant believe that the highlights didnt include the Hayes run in the closing minutes where a cut cabck to Foran, or even Rooney would have been a sure fire winner. It's not so much a collision as Weir turns into him rather than the two colliding. Knows exactly what he's doing, but like you say, you don't get them at Ibrox. Tokeley or Munro do that to Miller it's a penalty all day long. They didn't show many of Caley's chances really did they? Hayes at the end, Foran at the back stick (should have done better imo) and Rooney in the first half are three that spring to mind.

I am in favour of the SPL Green Cross Code and I look both ways after every game - IMHO the safer that we become from the threat of relegation then the more the chance of a Top Six finish. I would love to see an ICT side this season released from the shackle of relegation and then we could really give it a go. And as I have alluded to in several other threads - to me the biggest "plus" this season has been the form of Ryan Esson plus we have unearthed some "kids" who can hold their own at this level.

I wasn't worried at all about how the stewards and police would handle things yesterday as they deal with it week in week out and handle 50000 or 60000 fans a week depending were the game is (well that's when the best fans in the world turn out), did notice that a few of the boys were spoken to but that's as far as it went, from what I saw. Common sense policing and stewarding is always the way to go, a leaf needs to be taken out of Strathclyde Police' book at other stadiums around Scotland.

Another set of cracking pics from Peter Paul

Thanks for the link. Yeah, The praise RANGERS TV were giving us is more than all the papers have given us lol. Btw Its the Uganda Manager, Bobby Williamson.

WOW....canna believe that there are ICT fans thinking along these lines at the mo. Sounds like Dons fans :irritated: . Fair enuff if we were 28-30 games into the season. This season...its about SPL survival for me. I will be delighted with achieving that. Anything above that...EXCELLENT!

Werent Dundee claiming they'd won the league already by this time last year? We all saw how that panned out! while it would be fantastic to reach Europe there are a lot of points to be won and lost before the end of the season. Way too soon to be even be considering European qualification IMO Counting chickens and all that....

I cannot see us getting in to Europe for a good many years yet. If we are lucky we might get it by getting to the Scottish Cup Final. But, we are not good enough to get there in the league. Over the course of the season i think we will finish 8th. Maybe 7th at a push. Teams like Dundee United and Motherwell will be pushing eachother the whole way to get into Europe.

He's a BMW fan.

A bloke in the newsagents this morning told me that they were moving the Scotland game to a Wednesday now. As Roy's game is on a Tuesday we can all be absolutely certain now that there will be no clash. Mind you, on walking back home another guy told me that moving Roy's game to a Wednesday was under discussion so we could be back to square one again!

Shambolic way to run a tuck shop never mind a football club! The guy who I feel most sorry for is poor Jocky Scott. Sacked when your team is top of the league, albeit on a very poor run, and replaced by the management duo of one of the clubs well below you. Now, thanks to a combination of factors all out of your control, you get not a penny settlement. Chisholm and Dodds didn't give two hoots for Jocky when they took the job. If I recall rightly their words were - "that's football." I struggle to find too much sympathy for them now as they chose to walk out on Palmerston and join the Dens Park Dream Team. The fact that they were incapable of doing their homework properly is their own responsibility. For me, when they took the job they were certain they would get up. They failed. The consequences of failure were well known to anyone who has a clue about the Scottish game and for me, it's a bit rich for Chisholm and Dodds not to take some of the responsibility. Are we really to believe that me of such substance (as they are portrayed in the media by their pals) sat back and said nothing in public whilst all this went on? As long as the cash kept coming they sat tight. Sad for fans of the club. But think that Melville, Brannan, the management team and many of the guys who signed up to big contracts that they knew weren't available elsewhere in Scotland took a calculated risk which failed. How many of them were offered lesser deals that were more secure but refused?

I think the club need to offer him the best deal they can, no holding back, they made Craig Dargo the highest offer they've ever made a player before he left. Rooney is probably worth more than that.

let him get lost, if he dont wanna be here let the ginger ninger go elsewhere

What a coincidence, both games being on a Tuesday, who would believe it. Seems you will all make it now then if the Scotland game is on another week altogether.

The only thing that is certain (to me) is that at some point in the future we will lose the likes of Hayes, Rooney and Odhiambo to 'bigger' teams, especially if they continue to perform well. We simply do not have the resources to match most other teams and unfortunately, money talks. Having said that, from comments made by at least two of those players, and I get the impression it applies to all three, I dont think money is the be-all and end-all for them so we might hold onto them for longer than we would think, but they must also have aspirations of playing for their country and that is more easily achievable if they are at a club traditionally regarded as a 'big' club. It doesnt matter that we know ICT are a big club .... others still regard us as a 'wee highland team'. Both halves of the OF have a tradition of buying the best players from other teams and leaving them rotting in the reserves. Whether any of them go to the OF via another team or there directly is up for discussion but I am just happy we have all three right now and hope we do all we can to keep them for as long as possible. I also think the likes of Ross and Shinnie could be added to this discussion. They have both shown excellent promise and unlike the aforementioned three have come up through the ranks .... I wonder if it will be easier to keep them or whether they would also be tempted .....

Can I make a suggestion with ref. to song....He plays on the left ,he plays on the right etc could County be replaced by name of team we are playing on the day .since we are no longer in same div as county.Just feel it would be more effective but thats a personal opinion wondered what others think.Good to hear our own matchday songs .