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Crucially we need to know what CaleyD thinks!

Not suggesting anyone feels 'sorry' for OFW or Foran or any others. But the club were only too happy to offer these guys the contracts they did - why should these guys now be berated for seeing out their contracts? These guys are not 'staff' as such at the club like regular employees in corporations - they are given a contract for X wks/months/years with specific terms and conditions most including penalties if they break these but also include the right of the club to sell these assets on the market. If the player has to abide and see the T&C's of the contract out so should the club - in both the cases mentioned if the club do want rid then pay up the cash to an agreeable amount between both parties - otherwise find a way to utilise the assets in an effective manner and stop trying to 'force' players (OFW/Raven/Draper/Warren) out the door in the manner they have. When we have a scenario where the player wants to leave - such as Tansey and the club block this or cant negotiate a deal we blame the player and say its their fault not wanting be at the club. When the club decide to get rid of a player we say its the player that's greedy not walking away. Whether this or the previous regime neither board seem to be covering themselves in glory with the way business is conducted. If that's the case, then pay out his contract and release him - don't go to the media trying to force him. If he can get regular football for the same or better money I'm sure he will go but if he cant then he has every right to sit out the next 12 months and take every penny his contract allows.

Football is a feckin business you soft bestards. The previous soft bestards where the ones who almost fecked up the club in the first place and agreed these over the top deals. lets all feel sorry for OFW and Foran eh ?

He is well within his rights to sit and see out his contract which is legally binding and was agreed by the club. He has no obligation to look for another club or walk away. This is going to be another embarrassment same as Raven last season who was cast out then brought back and OFW who was in and out like the hokey-cokey. For a club that is known to struggle with recruitment of established players or those experienced from elsewhere in Scotland doing such business in public will not go un-noticed. Refresh is acceptable, as is removing 'deadwoood' and under-achievers but it all has to be done the right way. If the club want GW out then pay off his contract or reach a settlement mutually agreeable, otherwise have the discussions behind closed doors and keep it that way - with those who are brave enough to make these calls need to be aware that if GW stays they need to get back to the table and maximise what he can bring to the club in whatever capacity can be accommodated and agreed.

It makes me laugh that folk still dont realise that the club doors would not even be open still if it wasnt for members of the previous board putting money into club still.

People/fan engagement!!

These deals were only OTT following relegation. We could afford a lot of these contracts when we were in the top flight. Highly unlikely. Whilst fans clamour for more openness from the club this kind of dirty laundry can do without public airings. Much like the Hughes and Cameron budget battles of a few years ago.

Glover can I just say that these posts are exactly how I feel. You are not alone and that last paragraph esp sums up how it seems to be these days. We seem to have lost our soul and eithos as a club sadly

A footballing decision, a decision based on maximising advantage in the game of football, it could be argued, would value and utilise Gary, our most experienced, longest serving player, captain and qualified coach to lead what is a very young team. He is already quite the future coach apparently - UEFA A licence and qualified PE teacher ( knows something about educating young players). A footballing decision would look at the dressing room, morale, harmony, stability, and leadership from having Gary there. How many times are we told about unity in football teams? Unless Gary is a deeply dislikeable person and disruptive, in which case... Not to mention he played more than 25 times last season and is also still a player in his own right, and the duo preferred are no less susceptible to injury or loss of form because of last season’s late run. I would call it a business decision. A bird in the hand is worth three in the bush. This is like the NHS bus - we dont know how the money saved will be actually used and whether it would even be a saving in a cost-benefit analysis. All the speculation of Gary leaving is moot anyway. What club is willing to give an ‘unwanted’ 34-year-old Scottish Championship defender a one year contract, a contract that would entice him away from his home for the last 7 years, a contract that would need to be significantly better than what he already possesses? What would it take for any of us to leave our jobs, or earlier than our existing contract, and also move home too? There is no land of milk and honey for Gary except at ICT for the next year and it was wishful thinking on the club’s behalf to think so - I can see why these mystical ‘three young dynamic players’ would be a result, absolutely, but it was a business decision to forego inspiration, harmony, leadership and a player on the very, very remote chance a club will come in and take Gary and it was that trade-off I have issue with. Had there been a club like Gretna trying to steamroll through the lower divisions - potentially, but there’s not. I think Carl should be worried if a young player in his position pops up soon. Perhaps ‘legends’ will become a hushed word at ICT - don’t deserve legends if the end is to try and shaft them. I don’t want a club fashioned in the Mr Burns mould, perhaps I’m just sentimental.

Good people of CTO, I have a favour to ask. In a couple of weeks’ time I will be doing a Lands End to John O’ Groats bike ride solo and unsupported. Its 1,000 miles and I’m going to try to do it in 8 days. That is a lot of work and yes, I’m doing to support a charity. This one is very close to my heart, The Smith-Magenis Foundation UK. Max, my grandson, has SMS and you have probably never heard of it. Well, you have now. It’s called Smith Magenis Syndrome (SMS) and it’s there because Max got born without a tiny bit of chromosome 17. It just happens in 1:25000 births, no cause, and no history. What you won't have heard of are the sleep disturbances (he doesn't) the meltdowns, the rubbish eyesight, the amazing ability to cause self-damage, the learning difficulties and all the rest. Max won't tell you about it either because he can't speak yet. He will let you know how much he loves you though at almost every opportunity. Hugs, hugs and more hugs. If you good people want to add to the £1200 or so that we have already raised towards our £2K target, you can go to https://mydonate.bt.com/fundraisers/davidbalfour1 and put in whatever you can. Alternatively, I’ve got myself a new and unworn ICTFC home shirt which is signed by the first team squad and which ICTFC have generously donated. If you want it, please DM me on here with a bid. You know you want it and Max and I would be really grateful.

If I had to summarise this thread I would say there are relatively equal viewpoints on either side. Neither being wholly right or wholly wrong. It also seems to becoming slightly polarised by views on old board, new board. Again, neither board were or are particularly all bad or particularly all good. I think all would agree however that settling for the Championship isn’t ambitious enough. Much of the discussions are how we swap places with Livingston next season. That end may be achieved by different means and it is those means that are being debated. It is the outcome, promotion, not the method, that is the unifying element. Some say retaining experience and stability, some say rolling the dice. Gary may have become a proxy for a less visible undercurrent that promises on better communication and fan engagement (or at least consideration) have only materialised when it comes to season tickets and shirt sales. Again, some may not see that as a major issue and some may feel fan voice, fan role and fan contribution should be more pronounced. Either way, I think it has been one of the better discussed threads which has had differing views. I maintain my position but I can see the other views’ merit in terms of being outcome driven and end focused as opposed to worrying about the methods or means too much. All illuminating, all informative, and hopefully not polarising.

And, it could be argued left the club in an appalling position both financially and on the field through their mismanagement in our relegation season. To suggest that the board were as hugely influential in this as you suggest is nonsense. The board, over several seasons, did not show they were capable of building on the good times and moving the club forward.

So they deserve all of the blame for the bad stuff and none of the credit for the good stuff? I based my comment on exactly what Robbo is quoted as saying in the press. This one line about covers it.... "This has nothing to do with Gary’s ability, commitment or leadership as all are excellent."

Sorry - Hearts away is a test and a good day out. And most are salivating about the prospect of Cove away ?

And the opinion of the fans who watched last season ? What Robbo is stating is that Gary is not worth the payments that he is receiving because he will NOT be a starter next season. And I fer one think that he will be a squad player.

To me that was as much to do with the players who were playing as a team and fer the shirt - good scouting, good signings, good FOOTBALLING decisions, Managers able to attract, with experience and with media savvy but well overpaid - no real mercenaries (well not many) - playing fer the shirt - And instead of steadying the ship AFTER the Scottish Cup Final they got very, very cocky and nearly sunk the ship - they "misused" the "winnings" and eventually went to the lifeboats.

Ah - I stand corrected. Then probably/perhaps any other member would be financial. People/Fan engagement is what is needed, definitely. We are sailing into the Carlisle United or Crawley Town model of having a fan rep on the board. The former had a board approved shortlist + vote on social media, the latter £8000 gift from the supporters' trust and a member only vote. Their remit was engagement.

Gobbledegook! The main thing is Gary Warren is our player and captain. Until that changes otherwise no point shooting at ourselves about what ifs or has been?

They also oversaw an immediate return to the Premiership after the last relegation, a League Cup Final, several upper Premiership League finishes, European Qualification and our name on the Scottish Cup.....what utter bastards, eh?!

Agreed, that would be teams of Dalgarno & Oliver (commercial), Fyfe & Crook (PR & Marketing), Robbo & Danny (Football) with Rae (management/business development) Mackenzie (legal) and McPhee (financial). What other skillset or oversight is required? Matchday experience? We seem to be well represented in terms of adverts and sales.

A fan and long term sponsor of the club. Don't know him personally but sounds like a great board appointment to me.

And if it came out - as it undoubtedly would - then many would be complaining that it had been kept quiet !!!

Sadly this is the price of relegation. Costs get cut dramatically and if we can find a player for any position than will command a lower wage than the player we already have playing there he will be quite an attractive proposition to ICT. Look at Raven last season. I agree with most of what @bdu98196 says in the post above. This should have been kept behind closed doors. By putting it out in the public domain it's almost as if they are trying to shame Warren into leaving the club which is exceptionally poor.

Me too - I think he still has a lot to offer & not just as a player...he'd be a great coach, as someone who has had to work hard to get to where he's at now.

i would like to see Gary Warren here next season

A very interesting and informative post hislopsoffsideagain. Both Gary and Carl signed their contracts at 31, the former for 3 years and the latter for two. They will both be 34 when they finish their contracts. Regardless of what wage it is, there is no chance he will get a two year deal, or a one year deal on noticeably better terms thus there is no rational reason to leave so he will stay, under a cloud, and reminisce during his seventh and last season for the club on the 220-odd appearances he made and maybe rue that he won't be able to move up from 6th to 4th in all-time appearances for the club because they wanted three new players or a CEO or whatever else the money was earmarked for. We should, by rights, be seeing Gary off at the end of the season, even as a sub in the final home game, or at the end of the game if it's close in a meaningful way. Not sure how much feels that will have. I disagree with the 'too sentimental/it's business' line. Football is complete sentiment - emotion - as anyone in the ground can see (to varying degrees, granted). If it's a business, our ROI is not in money, but emotion. Gary is no volunteer, he was paid for the work he did. He still had work to do. The only players above him in terms of appearances were which 5? I cannot readily support the board and the manager over their issue with Gary. Gary's wage, whatever we assume it is, was ok last season and thus not a major issue, else it would have been dealt with sooner. It is a ruthless opportunistic gamble to cut costs based on a surplus of stock and short dates akin to a toffee yoghurt in the co-op. I can see why people support it, we have become content with austerity and conditioned to such practices, to see a service in pounds and pence saved, and believe that if we keep cutting costs we'll become successful, as if more negativity will turn into happiness. As with the Council, as with schools, as with healthcare, the cuts are made on frontline services, but you'll always see funding for back-end positions. Football at this level is much less a business and much more a public service. Like schools, like hospitals, it's raison d'être is not to make money for shareholders but to provide a service. I'm stretching now to compare Gary to a nurse, but better that than regard him as disposable, like the toffee yoghurt at 10pm.

Can we please, please, PLEASE stop obsessing over former players? This constant looking backwards is embarrassing.

Greg Tansey was garbage during his first spell with us, was really good for a season and a half and then went back to being garbage after that Aberdeen saga. He was absolutely dreadful when he eventually did sign for Aberdeen and would certainly be looking for Premiership wages. There’s absolutely no chance of him coming back and even if there was a chance, I would pass on him.

Tansey? Osman? Storey? Do you just like the idea of a team full of expensive, unfit has beens? Trafford was a great player for us when he had to step in, and could contribute so much more this season. Storey was good when he was here, but only relative to the utter nonentities that we had upfront prior to him arriving. He was the type of player that very quickly settled into the lifestyle and started to show less and less interest and willingness to win the ball. What makes you think he'd be any better the 2nd time around? Same with Tansey, he goes to Aberdeen.... Gets nowhere, achieves very little, is not match fit and is now unsurprisingly surplus to requirement. So what, we pay what would be a fortune to us to take him back here so he can try and recapture some of his previous form. Would the drive be there, no..... Would the enthusiasm be there, no.... Would it be value for money, no. I'm quite excited at the current squad we've got, and think robbo and his coaches will get the best out of them starting with a good preseason

Don't know how you can say that Dougal. Last time we played Buckie, Scott Boden got 2 and we realised we had unearthed a gem. Last time I was at Kieth (?) we saw the legend that was Dean McDonald. And my car got vandalised. What's not to like?

If we sit back and take stock, is this not normally seen as the kindest way to treat someone leaving a club that is surplus to requirements. Get yourself a deal elsewhere and the club will not make it difficult for you to move on. Been a good servant for a few years now but as seen with the likes of Coll Donaldson moving in it's unfortunately time for Gary to move on if he wants to continue with first team football. No brainer for me and good luck to Gary who has served Inverness well. Worth a hall of fame entry.

From my perspective there have been numerous positives since the end of the season and they far outweigh the negatives. A strong CJT now is just what is needed to raise issues and hopefully assist the new regime. As fer Mr Warren - a great servant, always gave 100% but his days are numbered.

Got the away top today. Completely in love with it. I'm taking it out for dinner at The Kitchen tonight.

Hope Cowdenbeath and Cove are drawn together.