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Stefan Kiszko, the Guildford 4, the Birmingham 6 etc etc would all be dead by now in that case. That's my biggest objection to capital punishment. Kiszko, for a start, admitted the crime. There was no doubt he killed and raped someone...then, 16 years later, he was released when new evidence showed that was physically impossible. He was a fantasist that couldn't distinguish between reality and tv/newspaper reports. The Birmingham Six judge publicly stated he would hang them if he had the authority. As they had firm forensic evidence (or so they thought at the time), no-one doubted their guilt until years later. How can a state live with killing an innocent man because it's cheaper to execute than jail? There's also other things like burden of proof being higher, so more guilty people go free or get a reduced charge ("Are you sure he's guilty?" Yes! "Sure enough that your decision will mean his death?" Um...) I don't go for the deterrent argument as 1. it doesn't seem to deter anyone in other countries and 2. I don't think it'll stop people like Huntley who don't think of the consequences. That said, should he get any money? Nope. Prison, given that it's full of criminals, is inheritantly dangerous. An attack just means that the prison can learn some lessons for next time. While you're in there, no rights and no compensation. It should be a harsh place where non-lifers can come to the decision that life on the outside, no matter how difficult it is to find a job/house/whatever, is much better than being inside. At the moment, it's a 24-hour factory. Boring, but not exactly fear-filled terror that ensures those inside will do anything but re-offend.

Heston Blumental will be producing them. The new menu is a snail and porridge pie, compote of crows breast and nuclear distilled yoghurt in a bridie and Bovril reduced to a steam.

Nope. Far lower in states without the Death Penalty (42% less murder rate in fact on the 2007 figures). You could argue about the demographics as much as 'no deterrent but lower conviction rates' that I've outlined above. One thing's for sure: states with the Death Penalty have executed innocent men. Horrific, unjust and lets the real murderer away with little chance of reopening a case.

I am a hard liner...i believe if you are sent to prison, you should lose all your rights. Prison should be a harsh lesson...not about rehabilitation. There are too many goody two shoes who will make excuses and pander to these sort of scum that we lock away. Until such times....we will have lots of reoffenders, coz lets face it...prison isnt so bad! I like the Chinese system.....they even used to charge the condemmed the price of the bullet used to execute em. I bet if we followed their lead there would be a lot less crime and reoffenders in our country.

Good luck to him, I hope you do sign him, I rated him..

We did look more threatening when Odihambo came on no doubt, I'd put that down to Rooney being upfront on his own beforehand though and having to try do everything himself when he clearly doesn't have enough work ethic in him. One thing I will say about Eric is that he can look class when he wants to. Today he chased everything down and looked a step or 2 ahead of every other player on the park, was the same against Forres. However against Fleetwood he wasn't in the game at all and Sutherland looked the better option upfront ahead of him. If we can get some consistency in him he could really shine next season up against SPL defences. Agree with what's being said about Coxy, he was awesome today, and indeed in every friendly I've seen him in. Not scared at all to get stuck in, and is showing much more composure and ability to pick a pass now aswell. Good run and reactions for his goal too, well done that boy. McCann, whilst having an average performance, also impressed. Everytime he was having a look at where to put the ball rather than just using the hoof tactic, which Golly and Munro were guilty of. Looking forward to seeing how the boy Gillet plays at left back.

Do you think he means lifting silverware as opposed to the first division trophy?

I've always avoided volunteering for this because I usually have too many pints before a match, but I could do the Dundee Utd game if you need someone for that - I'm working the next day so will have to stay sober. I'll let you know about future games.

Hayes is looking to be fit for the Celtic game....not too sure on Foran though. If you were going to single out two players who got us back into the SPL it would be Hayes and Foran.

Uh oh, here's this topic again...

That was total pish.

A 2-1 defeat to Fleetwood Town is nothing to get upset about. Fleetwood earned promotion to the fifth tier of English football for the first time and this league does produce some quality teams that will give any SPL opposition a decent game. As for us, we huffed and puffed at the start and were under the cosh early on. Our new signing between the sticks had a fine game and made one memorable save from a free-kick. After going behind we almost equalised straight away but, unfortunately, Roy hasn't got that 'in front of goal instinct' as his lame effort was easily saved. We also hit the bar towards HT as we tried to get back on level terms. We started brightly enough in the second half but we were weak in front of goal. There second was a defensive mix up which had Terry and Mo raging (as well as us) but, after that, we did try to make a game of it. TB answered our calls for Rooney and he got one back within 5 mins of coming on. We had chances late on to snatch a draw but our efforts were wayward or easily saved. Just a comment on some of the new faces: Tuffey was excellent between the sticks but there does seem to be a lack of communication with his defence at times which is understandable for a new guy. McCann looked ring rusty and uncertain, not sure if he was responsible for any of the goals mind but he didn't fill me with confidence. Early days of course. Gil whatshisname looking up for it when he came on and did a loy of running around. His first touch was woeful and distribution of the ball was also bellow par. Again. early days and I'm they'll all come good in the end. Fleetwood Town FC as a whole was a wonderful relaxed experience. There was no segregation for this match and the banter was superb. There was a bar underneath the stand behind the goal where both sets of supporters were able to drink and enjoy the occasion. You could also have a pint at half time! Big screen TV as well with action replays of goals and a full list of the teams, goals etc. For a team that attracts the same kind of crowds as we did in the SFL their facilities put ours SPL one's to shame. Despite the score it was a great day out.

Even though he was not playing today, Foran's reign as captain has got off to a pretty shaky start. Writing in the programme notes today, he pays tribute to Grant Munro's captaincy and goes on to say "I saw how much it meant to him when he lifted the Irn Bru First Division Trophy last season and it's certainly something that I hope to experience in the not too distant future". Relegation this season Richie, and you'll be half way there! :_beatme:

Why not just go to the shop ?

It kind of does though. :_lol: "You've s***ed the c*** of the devil for too long and now you're going to have to swallow." That is inspiring. **slams door on way out to find gypsies**

(language not suitable for work or kids btw !) So thats all right for on here then?

YES YES YES! NO! NO! NO! we dont have the money and we dont even need them anymore since we signed gil and gillet

A decent performance, more of a pre-season friendly than anything. A few moments of excitement, although more were found in the half-time entertainment than the game itself. I hope they keep that on, seeing the wee lad dummy the ball about 15 times before fluffing it was fantastic. Was that Max Johnson in goals at half-time? Nice if it was. Out of the new boys, Blumenshtein looks like he has enough in him to take control of that spot behind Rooney, McCann looks strong enough at right-back, with enough awareness to let his lack of height be a non-issue and Innes did look the part when he was on. Did Innes get injured? He didn't feel his thigh/foot, didn't go down at any point, and looked more angry at being subbed than anything else. Man of the Match - Odi scored one and caused havoc with his pace when introduced. Odi is the new Rooney unless the ginge starts to pull the strings again. Cox can share this award, he was superb. The new Ian Black. We are not quite the full article without Hayes and Foran. Really hope they can get some game time before the Celtic game or it'll be sit-in and hope they don't score for 90 minutes.

Only if smileys, swearing and sarcasm are allowed