Where is all of the proposed extra revenue coming from, The Government? Considering cuts in defense, education, hospitals, council staff etc. Where is this magic pot of money coming from.

TV revenue?, In these difficult times who is going to have money to spend on sport on TV, let alone the extra number of viewers required to make things pay their way, even advertising is getting tight across the board. one word could sum up these elusive promises and that is Setanta.

I would assume with in 2 years of a 10 & 12 team league, the TV broadcasters will turn around and say that this is no longer financially viable.

The SPL will then realize that its the fans that support their club through thick and thin and not Television.

Explain how this will improve the chances of our youth becoming great players for Scotland How can our youth be involved when the league is tighter and there is supposedly more money to spend on foreign players, I hope colt teams isn't your answer, as the question wasnt how are you going to help the old firm create great players ? Small clubs dont want colt teams.

Whats in it for you Neil Will you earn more money or less money if this goes ahead.

Edited January 19, 201115 yr by 12th Man

What's the problem with having a larger league? Look at the Eredivise. Far more teams than the SPL - some huge - like Feyenoord and Ajax. There are smaller, provincial clubs in there too. There are even some feeder clubs in there - Excelsior started out as a feeder club to Feyenoord and their stadium only holds around three and a half thousand! Why not have an expanded SPL? To have feeder clubs in there (county) would help ICT (maybe). I always compare ICT to VVV Venlo.

Here's the question though - how are the dutch national side by comparison?

I think the Ayr United chairman is correct. We are a laughing stock, and this whole set up is a duopoly.

is there any plans for a "No to a 10team spl" banner??

Don, that's a magnificent post. You should apply to become Tel's Andy Coulson...

However, one question I would ask Doncaster is this:

"Name all of the teams who went into administration trying desperately to cling onto their place at the top ten table the last time this experiment was played out because history suggests it is a failed business model..."

Also...

"I note that you oversaw (as Chief Executive) Norwich City's promotion to the Premier League in 2004/05 but fecked off a few years later when your business model failed and the club was relegated into the third tier of English football. Mr Doncaster, you are a solicitor by trade, so why don't you concentrate on drawing up a meaningful contract with your customers instead of chumming up with your corporate spin doctors."

Interesting further point to Football Focus in terms of SPL clubs bringing through young players - this would come to an end with 10. Clubs would look at foreign players again in the scrap to stay up. As a Scotland fan, that's a bad thing.

Doncaster - in what way would a 10 team league benefit the national side?

I would simply ask him- 'Are you a fking idiot or what?'

That is all.

Could you stop making it all up and "present" your evidence so we can then all immediately hang and ruin you when your stupid, self-serving, egotistical, baseless, arrogant, and condescending brainless idea is made apparent to all for being the idiot that you are for trying to look at the scottish game as if it was a f****** hedge fund?

There's also the very real possibility that with the revised 10 team SPL1 and 12 team SPL2 that a fan could find themselves facing a higher season ticket price if their team got relegated or that a club being promoted from SPL2 to SPL1 could find themselves with a lower income from season ticket sales!!!

Some other bits of info on the proposals that seem to be slowly leaking out.......

- The proposal regarding play-offs does not create the risk of 3 teams being relegated as the format would be that 8th & 9th in SPL would play each other (over 2 legs) and the loser would then face the winner of the 2nd & 3rd play-off from SPL2 - So you would have a situation whereby 4 teams (8th and 9th in SPL1 and 2nd & 3rd in SPL2) are going to end up playing each other a guaranteed 6 times a season.

- There's a proposed "SPL Cup" which would see the SPL2 teams play off against each other and 6 teams join the draw (seeded) along with the 10 SPL teams to give the last 16....from here the details are a bit non-existent, but it would seem it would then go to 4 groups of 4 as the intention is to provide additional games for SPL1 teams. - Baring in mind that 4 teams are already guaranteed to play each other 6 times, and then consider the fact that the teams from SPL2 could face each other in the SPL Cup Play off and could then face each other in the final 16 onwards (at least once) and then meet in the Scottish Cup, then you have the potential for SPL2 teams to end up playing each other up to 11 times and SPL 1 teams facing each other up to 9 times in a single season...proof positive that nobody is listening to the fans and the fact that we're bored of playing the same teams over and over. What's more, where are the SPL2 teams going to fit these games in when they already have a 44 match league schedule?

- The voting structure for SPL1 would require a 9-1 majority to change anything and votes from SPL2 clubs would carry "less weight"....i.e. they would not have equal voting rights within the SPL, effectively making them associate members as opposed to full members and leaving them entirely at the mercy of the 10 SPL1 teams. That's democracy for you!!! You can come play with us, we want control of your money, but you can't have a proper say in the decision making!!! The 9-1 required majority for SPL1 teams also means that the OF effectively maintain control over the whole lot.

- Also seems to be some posturing around the idea that the SFL could be scrapped with all teams coming under the administration of the SPL (why not just scrap the SPL as well and have the SFA do the job?) However, teams below SPL2 would have NO voting rights whatsoever.

- The ?1.5M "saved" by reducing the SPL1 to 10 teams would be split between 1st and 2nd in SPL2 with another ?1.5M coming from 50% of the current SFL money and that being split among the other 10 teams.....effectively recreating (actually it's worse) the uneven split in finances we currently have in SPL(1). Personally I view this as nothing more than a tool to try an win favour with the SPL teams who would face being dropped from the top tier in a "we will protect you by giving you the money to remain at the top of SPL2 and have a chance of coming straight back up"

- Season would start earlier, but the OF would be able to "opt-out" and rearrange their early fixtures to allow them to play "lucrative" foreign friendlies. So an ICT v OF at home game in July where we might expect a decent crowd could be moved to midweek in December in the cold and rain where we would almost certainly get a smaller crowd and as a result lose revenue. Meanwhile the OF are off raking it in at some firendly somewhere and losing little, if anything, from the rearranged fixture.

Oh Joy! It just gets worse and worse doesnt it? In relation to the final point I thought the proposal to start the season early was to benefit the OF getting in game practice before the european ties. As stated in the past you couldnt make it up really.

It's actually quite staggering just how far off the mark the whole thing is, and part of the reason for that is because the thinking that underpins the whole thing is so flawed.

A 16/18 team league is immediately dismissed on the basis that "it would make less money than the current proposal", regardless of the fact that I disagree with that assertion, what's more important is that nobody in the decision making process has gone "hold on a minute, clubs are wasting so much money anyway that if they learned to live within their means then the game might not actually need more money and what's more important is that we look at the long term needs of the game and desires of our customers"

There's also flawed thinking in the point that more money makes the teams/league more competitive. Doncaster himself has made mention of teams having more money to buy in talent, which flies in the face of one of their own objectives for the change which is "allow as much opportunity for player development" - Surely if that is a core objective then they should be encouraging teams to develop their own players and/or to trade within our own borders!!! I have nothing against foreign players/signings, but I see little point in concentrating on a setup that produces more money if that money is only going to be spent elsewhere and ultimately benefiting other teams/leagues/associations. Better to concentrate on a setup which is good for the game and encourages teams to make best use of what's on their own doorstep.

What's more, the proposals don't actually change the financial dynamics in any way. The OF will still take the lions share, the teams below them will still have the same income from the league (in terms of %) as they do now, 10 of the SPL2 will be financed by stealing the income from the current Div 2 and 3 teams and the top 2 in SPL2 will get pretty much the same as what 11th and 12th in the SPL currently get. If, by their own argument, finances are directly related to competitiveness, then surely the priority is not more money, but levelling out the playing field financially.

A couple of radical (and admittedly not fully thought through ideas)......

A foreign transfer levy....if you buy a player from another association then you have to pay the equivalent of x% into a centralised development fund. Clubs can qualify for money from this development fund every time they bring through a young player into the first team, rewarding them for developing within and truly doing their bit to enhance the prospects and making best use of our own resources.

A Champions League/Europa Cup levy......Society pretty much accepts that higher earners pay higher tax to help support the society we live in, let's apply similar thinking to football and have a % of the income from these tournaments paid into the pot for everyone. After all, it's domestic success that makes these places available to teams and the financial disparity at that level affords the top teams the competitive edge that allows them to qualify for these tournaments in the first place.

dear mr doncaster

why do you not listen to the fans?

your sincerly mr l mackay

why not create a two team league and let the rest of us get on with it in peace.

Or just send them of to play in the Turkish league

Dear Mister Donkey,

You just dont understand.

Giving clubs enough cash to agree to being relegated is like paying a boxer to throw a game and saying "its ok you will be better off"

Its the clubs right, the managers right and its the players right, to do the best they possibly can for the honor and integrity of their club, themselves and their fans. Asking them to join a lower league for money is not the way.

Where is the honor in asking clubs to leave the very best league in Scotland for money, how can a fan respect their club for selling out.

This scenario reminds me of scene from Brave heart when William Wallace was waiting for the clan chiefs and their men to join the fight and they held back, those clan chiefs sold their honor for personal gain.

So far, there are 3 club chiefs and their fans in this league who can stand tall, stand proud and say we wont be bought.

FREEDOM.

Edited February 10, 201115 yr by 12th Man

Well said, 12th Man....that is precisely what is happening in order to try and force through the 10 team proposal.

My question would be, "why have you not gone yet?"

My question would be "What have you been up to in the weeks since the furore died down?" If you think that taking your foot off the gas so that the fans will forget, and you can do it more quietly next time, well, then, it would be par for the course on your decision making so far

It will be back in a month or so, but you can bet your bottom dollar Doncaster will be scurrying around trying to force through a ten team league. The only thing holding things up are three clubs and the fans outwith the OF. Take that out of the equation and this deal will be done in a flash.

Need to get Doncaster and Topping out ASAP

To be fair to the OF fans, they seem as opposed to a 10 team league as the rest of us (see here).

And while you are at it why not tell us fans living overseas why you are cutting us off from even the most minimal radio contact.

And how can allowing radio access to any of the few fans that do live outwith the U.K. have the slightest negative effect on the bottom line of ANY SPL club in Scotland ?

Why don't you go home?

My question, without notice, would be:

Mr Doncaster, why do you bother?

In what way will a ten team SPL improve this http://www.heraldscotland.com:80/mobile/news/crime-courts/police-call-for-a-ban-on-old-firm-clashes-1.1087524

situation? Surely a 16 team SPL would see them playing less and lead to less crime.

I'm in the middle of writing a couple of blogs/articles on this whole league reconstruction malarky. One on the top leagues and another on a pyramid system. I will post them on here when I'm done.

Latest words of wisdom...

Edited February 28, 201115 yr by Top Six Next Year

Latest words of wisdom...

get him away from tcs before i find a rifle!

but fair play to him for comming up with something good for once

it will give the european teams more competive football before they play in europe hopefully helping them do better raising the coeffeciant and getting more scottish teams into european football

which would also benefit us