The 'Butcher OUT' post got me a little agitated, simply because out problems do not lie with him alone. Nor should they.

Yes we can say we've still got a list of injured/not fully fit players, and no that excuse wont wash for much longer, if at all. But why should our shoddy performance against St Johnstone (and even our current league position) merit HIM to be touted for the chop?

Simple answer - He shouldn't be!

I've only managed 4 games this season, and not once have I seen Richie Foran give 100% in his performances. He's meant to be the club captain and has done nothing but criticize his fellow professionals. And judging by the reactions of some others around me yesterday, I'm not the only one to think this.

Foran has been less passionate in his overall game than he was at this stage last season. He's slow off the ground for headers he'd normally be expected to win, and has been at least a yard off the pace most of the season.

His criticism's of other players performances cannot therefore be justified if he himself is worthy of even more criticism. Surely he cannot be the first name on the team sheet, just because he is club captain?

What Foran needs is to be dropped, and dropped now. Shane Sutherland shows alot of passion and creativity whenever he plays, and even Andrew Shinnie is showing signs of linking well with Tade. With McKay pushing for more game time, Hayes close to a return and others looking to start, I really hope Butcher starts to utilise these men in an effort to bring some desire and fight of which has been lacking in Foran.

Out of interest do we know it was abuse he was giving other players or was he giving them encouragement?

Going by the fact I have very very rarely seen him pat a team mate on the back or give a thumbs up, but have instead very regularly see him waving his arms about and pointing and shouting at players, I'm going to have a guess and say that he's not offering encouragement.

I even recall an article in the paper a few weeks back, i think it was after the utd match(could be wrong), where he basically said the lads weren't playing well. No mention of his own poor performance at all, and it actually read very much as if he had no part in our poor performances. Now, in my opinion, if you're not willing to put your hands up and admit you yourself are playing poor, then how can you possibly be able to motivate others?

His performance today was pretty crap.

Butchers biggest mistake has been getting shot of Grant Munro and replacing him with his personal favourite .

Butchers biggest mistake has been getting shot of Grant Munro and replacing him with his personal favourite .

Correct

Grant was hurting at being released. The expression on his face when he scored against Celtic summed it up.

Do you not think his form is down because he's playing as a traditional striker but there's no width to support him? You might say Tade is playing better but different players. With no wingers, Rooney would probably be more lost than Foran, whilst a player like Bayne would look more effective, even though he's less likely to score.

Let's either swap to the 4-2-3-1 with Foran wide on the left, or get Chippendale or G.Shinnie out wide.

Personally I feel Foran gets far too much stick on this forum, one thing the man could never be accused of is hiding. He gives his all week in week out and if he bawls at players it's because it's his job to get them working on the park. The man's been carrying injuries all season however keeps plodding on and I take my hat off to him. Another who does'nt shirk and gets stick is Andrew Shinnie, in my opinion our best midfield player yesterday and unfairly "hooked" when Tansey (Pansy) was hiding for the duration.

I had an 'exchange of views' with Mr. Butcher on that one, his retort was for me to shut up, my reply being FU i pay my money. Personally I fear for our position come May if he keeps faith with his recent buys and favourites. Young Shane is dying to be given a starting chance, what's the story with Mackay, the only recognised striker he's signed and does'nt get a sniff ??

There would appear to be many inhouse problems and unanswered questions for the loyal fans, over to you Mr Butcher..........

PS. To the morons in the North Stand who booed and jeered Foran when he came and applauded you all at the end of the game yesterday, how do you feel today?? I can imagine what Richie is thinking and feeling

Unfortunately I can't agree with a lot of what you've said Donview. I don't think you've been watching the same Foran I have this season.

The one I have seen is a good yard off the pace, hardly threw his weight about in challenges and rarely won any header (the ones he went for that is).

There is no way anyone can honestly say he 'gives his all week in week out' because he simply does not!

He strolled around the park like a lost sheep, and for him to try and gee up the fans at the end... well to me it felt like an insult. The people he should be geeing up are his fellow professionals. Not shouting at them when they make the slightest error - especially if his initial ball to them was shocking, as happened more than once yesterday!

Yes, there are questions over Butchers choice to leave the likes of McKay and Sutherland on the bench when we are crying out for a striker. There are also questions over his tactics and decision to play central midfielders on the wings. But the biggest question I have about Butcher is why he insists on playing Richie Foran when he is simply not performing as a player.

EDIT: As for him being booed at the end, I think his perfromance deserved it, and as i said earlier, I thought it was an insult for him to be so f***** smug whislt trying to gee up the support. He did sod all for 90 minutes. End of!

Edited October 23, 201114 yr by Gringo_Jnr

The man is a pure bread donk. maybay if he practised his finishing rather than gobbing off in the press bout how we can still get top 6 we mite have a chance of the odd win. how many times does has he broke away,only the keeper to beat,then ballooned it over the bar, or no where near the goal? think its funny that people are just starting to realise what a pretender he really is

Firstly, Foran did not have the best game yesterday but let's be honest who did. The booing of him at the end from The North Stand, if that is what happened is unnacceptable and if that is what some of our fans think is supporting the team, then shame on them. Too many so called supporters of this club never seem to be happy unless they are moaning.

That said, team selection and substitutes were wrong yesterday. I appreciate that Butcher wanted to give the team a chance to atone for last weeks performance but some now need to be dropped pronto to gee them up.

Foran has been more a liability than an asset this season. If he's carrying injuries, that's one thing and it's up to the manager to rest him a bit, but to those saying that he bawls at players to gee them up, I say that you're not keeping an eye on what's happening. Nine times out of ten he bawls when someone has the temerity not to pick up his own misplaced pass or when their perfectly decent ball eludes his less-than-perfect first touch, or when they dare to pass to someone else. Chasing the game against (I think) Killie, he was in with a penalty shout with minutes to go - it wasn't given, and feck knows we all feel hard done by with the refereeing sometimes, but the bugger sat on his backside on the touchline, shaking his head, for the better part of a minute. That is not leading by example or doing what you damn well should be doing when one more goal means a vital point. Yesterday, again, he was impeded in the box but, rather than carrying on, he stopped, turned around, and started waving his arms at the referee. It might be that he knew the ball was now beyond him, but it didn't look at all good. Add to that his other hobby of abusing officials - more time spent doing that than Russell 'Card Me You Whistle-blowing *******' Duncan ever did - and all round, his attitude leaves a fair bit to be desired. If this were one of the junior players, the captain would be well within his rights to dish out a proper bollocking, but this is the captain we're talking about: some captain.

forans our top assister this season hes set up about half of our goals

so with tade on 4 goals and foran on 4 or 5 assists we have a decent strike force how often does foran win a header against a tall defender about 60-70% of the time? yes hes not been the best leader this season but hes chipped in

he loves this club and thats why he gets frustrated the pressure gets to him as captain sometimes we need someone with a cooler head at times to captain the side i think cox or esson should get the arm band and see how it benefits foran to have the pressure lifted off him

I have a feeling he will be mom next week (if he plays!)

I have a feeling he will be mom next week (if he plays!)

He was Man of the Match this week in The Sunday Post!*

* - This is no joke. I am serious.

He looked much better in midfield against Motherwell. lets hope he stays there because he is rubbish as a striker.

He was back where he belonged yesterday on the left wing where he is at his best imo. Yesterday he was at the heart of everything, won loads of flick on's, his link up play was brilliant and he gave at least 100% (as did everyone). He didnt even seem to be having a go at many people in the team, heres hoping for more of the same in the coming weeks...thats the sort of performance we need from a captain.

A travesty of Justice yesterday but unfortunately the club Captain did little to enhance his reputation.

Yet another poor performance from Foran but he seems to blame the other players.

Perhaps he needs to give up the captain's role for a while until he is fully fit and out-performing the other players!

Who would be best captain? Is it best that he be a mid-fielder? Davis looks the part but he is only here for a short while!

neksor

Totally disagree thought he put in a Gd shift yesterday and didn't see him moan at anyone except the ref!

What game were you at ? I thought Richie gave110%. Get real and get behind your team.

I thought Forans shift back to the midfield proved that sometimes it's better to have a player (especially one who's not been 100%) work smarter instead of harder. Foran was back to doing what he does best and he'll contribute just as much, if not more, from there than he has been from playing at the front.

What game were you at ? I thought Richie gave110%. Get real and get behind your team.

Not possible. Just not possible.

No matter how often some sad footie pundit says it ................it is not possible.

Edited October 31, 201114 yr by Sorted

Wow - At least my negativity is tongue in feckin cheek. As I have been saying since pre feckin season. Foran has been played completely out of position - come on we all know where his best position is. He doesnt have the pace and movement now so we should be blending him in to play to his strengths. He is undoubtedly frustrated at his own performances, even taking one for the team and if I was up front looking at some of the rubbish we have been serving up then I would be shouting and bawling too. And TB evidently feels that he is a requirement and has played him through injuries and for full 90 minutes.

So keep him where he is but let him expect to be replaced around the hour mark. Get him to modify his man management and get back in to the fans good books. Get him encouraging rather than chastising.

Sorry but that responsibility and the change task is and has always been Terry and Mo's.

Foran certainly didn't help his own cause by publicly stating he was going to be the man to fill the goalscoring gap left by the exit of Adam Rooney .

I think a few things were said by several people early on which raised expectations beyond where they needed to be.

It's the whole "expectation v ambition" argument. It's tough to find the balance...if they do as they did and talk about shooting for top 6 then you get the situation we have where expectations are high and criticism is flowing due to us sitting bottom...if they had come out and said the aim is survival then they get slated for lack of ambition.

What frustrates me about Foran is that it almost looks like he is scared to have a shot at goal - against Motherwell he was given the ball about 15 yards out and right in front of goals and he passed it out to somebody on the wing when it would have been much better for him to have had a shot at goal. We then promptly lost possession and squandered another chance of scoring.

On a positive note, that was the best performance I have seen from the team this season and it was wonderful to see Johnny Hayes back on the park.