It may have been mentioned before but there was an article in the paper about the Caley Thistle team on Saturday and how the none of the starting 11 were Scottish. Pretty embarrassing really. All the way through the divisions and up until not long ago we had a team that was almost exclusively Scottish with the odd foreigner here and there. Is this a reason why there is no fight in the team, with some players only on loan as well. People will say that all footballers are mercenaries but if you look at Tokely after a defeat he walks straight off the park raging, it actually really matters to him. We need more players like that who actually care whether we win or lose.

Yes if we were winning it wouldn't be a problem but we aren't. I would rather support a Caley Thistle team with local or Scottish players who care a little than a team full of half bit foreigners.

It takes a brave man to apologise but - beware - on a forum that could be viewed as a sign of weakness !!

Dually noted.

And had we a team of Scottish players and churned out the season we just have then we'd have folks on ranting that we were insular and should be looking beyond Scotland to sign players...in fact, I'm pretty sure the later is a point that came up for discussion on here a few years back.

I think you need the blood and thunder approach of Scottish players in any Scottish team. You need a blend of the Braveheart attitude and a bit of culture from outwith Scotland, then i think your on to a winner. Look at Rangers team of the 90s, when the THREE foreigners rule was in place. Rangers did their best in europe back then, despite the "handicap".

Don't disagree with you SMEE, just saying that there's some people who will find fault, regardless of the situation.

Also, Scotland faces a situation whereby the setup doesn't support the production and retention of enough of our own talent. That's not down to any individual team and the smaller a teams budget the less able they are to combat it.

For the size of ICT I think they actually do a pretty admirable job of bringing through younger players, but it's hard when the moment a youngster shows the slightest hint of promise they are lured away by bigger clubs...and not just bigger clubs in Scotland. Year after year ICT see the youths plundered and they are powerless to do anything about it.

We don't have the retention of our own players though if we are bringing in loan players who as someone mentioned aren't playing for the good of the club but purley to get themselfs noticed or stay match sharp. Do they really care what happens to the club when they know (and want in some cases) that they will be away soon. Not long ago there were those programmes on tv about the state of scottish football and they had some debating programme on the bbc. They mention Rangers brining in loads of mediocre foreign players who were no better than what was avaliable here and that damaged the game here. With the situation now and them being forced to play more Scottish they were saying they hope that lessons will be learnt and Scottish football can move on from there and it won't revert to back to what it was once the situation improves. But of course it will when other teams such as ourselfs are doing the same thing and filling our team full of foreign players who do nothing to improve the game whatsoever.

Where are all these Scottish players who want to sign for us? As someone pointed out already, there was a number of them last year who refused contract offers from ICT.

How can you sign players that don't exist, aren't available or won't come here for what we can offer?

GMS........

is GMS Gary Mackay Steven or Grant Munro's of this world?

Former though equally strong argument for the latter.

Former though equally strong argument for the latter.

Not knowing much about football, but understanding a little of finances to the extent that I know that spending money on something which I thought was a good idea at the time, because theoretically it was a sensible buy because the company which produced it was a well-known company, is money wasted if the buy turns out to be faulty and rarely, if ever gets used.

Wasn't Gary Mackay-Steven released by Liverpool as a much as a result of an injury plagued season as anything else? Wasn't the reason he was back home for seven months in 2010 without a team because he was still suffering the effects of the hip stress fracture? Didn't he get an Achilles injury in the warm-up for the Forres Game pre-season 2010/2011 when he was on trial? Didn't he say himself that I got an injury and never really recovered from it. when on trial? Wasn't he offered a pay as you play deal, in order to allow him to prove his fitness? Was he not more keen to sign for a part-time Division 2 team on a contract than chance that he would be able to play to get paid for ICT?

Hindsight gives 20/20 vision....and, with hindsight, Mackay-Stevens was a chance missed...but how could he have fared between pre-season 2010/2011 season and the January transfer period if we did not have hindsight to tell us? Fit to play? maybe.....earning a wage while not fit to play? Possibly.

Given the way some posters on here react to everything, if he had been signed when injured......and then played as little as those who have been signed uninjured and sustained injuries later have.......guess who would be getting given the pelters for wasting the money which could have paid the salary of somebody fit? Tudur-Jones didn't have a much better injury record...but at least he manged to last the trial period and a game or two as a player to show his credentials. One single trial game, however good, is not a basis for a short term contract, far less anything more.

Didn't he get an Achilles injury in the warm-up for the Forres Game pre-season 2010/2011 when he was on trial?

Don't know about anything else you've quoted but that is not accurate. During that trial, he played the first half against Clach. He produced the single greatest wing display I've ever seen in a Caley shirt (I'm including Robson, Wilson and Hayes in my comparison here).

Easy with hindsight, now knowing he's playing for Dundee Utd completely injury free but on the basis of that first half alone, I'd have offered him a deal. I recall saying I'd sign him there and then to all who were around me who attended that game at Grant Street.

Didn't he get an Achilles injury in the warm-up for the Forres Game pre-season 2010/2011 when he was on trial?

Don't know about anything else you've quoted but that is not accurate. During that trial, he played the first half against Clach. He produced the single greatest wing display I've ever seen in a Caley shirt (I'm including Robson, Wilson and Hayes in my comparison here).

Easy with hindsight, now knowing he's playing for Dundee Utd completely injury free but on the basis of that first half alone, I'd have offered him a deal. I recall saying I'd sign him there and then to all who were around me who attended that game at Grant Street.

Where did I say he didn't play in a game..though I did think he had played the whole Clach Game...mea culpa......so he had a trial period which lasted one half of a game and a warm-up. Butcher said it would be unfair to judge a player on one half of football. We will see how they do in our next two games.

He didn't manage any other games, and was not prepared to go for a pay as you play deal, which would have allowed us to see if he was going to be able to sustain his fitness....even though that would have probably earned him a proper contract if he had. Maybe he realised himself that he still wasn't 100% fit and needed the time until January to get himself ready to return to the game.

If you think We are an absolute joke in a game you didn't attend, what would you have been saying if we had taken Mackay-Steven on and he was paid until January without ever being fit enough to play a competitive game? ICT don't have the money to deliberately employ passengers just in case they come good....it is bad enough having so many with fairly long term injuries earned in competitive matches without taking a chance on someone coming in after a long lay-off having done no training at all.

Maybe we made a mistake not offering the training facilities Dundee United offered him when he was at Airdrie......but not inclined to think he'd have been too enthusiastic at the travelling required. Dundee United had the benefit of knowing that, by the stage they gave him a contract he was fit enough to train and play a full game....which was not something ICT could possibly have known without the benefit of the hindsight so many of you are now employing.

Where did I say he didn't play in a game..though I did think he had played the whole Clach Game...mea culpa......so he had a trial period which lasted one half of a game and a warm-up. Butcher said it would be unfair to judge a player on one half of football. We will see how they do in our next two games.

He didn't manage any other games, and was not prepared to go for a pay as you play deal, which would have allowed us to see if he was going to be able to sustain his fitness....even though that would have probably earned him a proper contract if he had. Maybe he realised himself that he still wasn't 100% fit and needed the time until January to get himself ready to return to the game.

If you think We are an absolute joke in a game you didn't attend, what would you have been saying if we had taken Mackay-Steven on and he was paid until January without ever being fit enough to play a competitive game? ICT don't have the money to deliberately employ passengers just in case they come good....it is bad enough having so many with fairly long term injuries earned in competitive matches without taking a chance on someone coming in after a long lay-off having done no training at all.

Maybe we made a mistake not offering the training facilities Dundee United offered him when he was at Airdrie......but not inclined to think he'd have been too enthusiastic at the travelling required. Dundee United had the benefit of knowing that, by the stage they gave him a contract he was fit enough to train and play a full game....which was not something ICT could possibly have known without the benefit of the hindsight so many of you are now employing.

Jesus wept. Read my post again and re-think your reply.

Where did I say he didn't play in a game..though I did think he had played the whole Clach Game...mea culpa......so he had a trial period which lasted one half of a game and a warm-up. Butcher said it would be unfair to judge a player on one half of football. We will see how they do in our next two games.

He didn't manage any other games, and was not prepared to go for a pay as you play deal, which would have allowed us to see if he was going to be able to sustain his fitness....even though that would have probably earned him a proper contract if he had. Maybe he realised himself that he still wasn't 100% fit and needed the time until January to get himself ready to return to the game.

If you think We are an absolute joke in a game you didn't attend, what would you have been saying if we had taken Mackay-Steven on and he was paid until January without ever being fit enough to play a competitive game? ICT don't have the money to deliberately employ passengers just in case they come good....it is bad enough having so many with fairly long term injuries earned in competitive matches without taking a chance on someone coming in after a long lay-off having done no training at all.

Maybe we made a mistake not offering the training facilities Dundee United offered him when he was at Airdrie......but not inclined to think he'd have been too enthusiastic at the travelling required. Dundee United had the benefit of knowing that, by the stage they gave him a contract he was fit enough to train and play a full game....which was not something ICT could possibly have known without the benefit of the hindsight so many of you are now employing.

Jesus wept. Read my post again and re-think your reply.

I did read it......and responded to but on the basis of that first half alone, I'd have offered him a deal. I recall saying I'd sign him there and then to all who were around me who attended that game at Grant Street.

What's to rethink?

"Braveheart attitude "?

Sorry SMEE i have to disagree with you on this. I dont think many footballers these days know what this means! Does anyone? on a side note I wish Mel Gibson would p*ss off and stop meddling with a nations history! Lol

The media love to latch this buzzword onto players; Colin Hendry being one that i remember! But i think its limited to the International game

All we need is players that play for the Jersey! Simple

Edited April 29, 201214 yr by BornCaley

Questions - what is the difference between GMS and OTJ and SW (Chorley) ? Who else have we taken on trial / loan who has a history of injuries ?

Questions - what is the difference between GMS and OTJ and SW (Chorley) ? Who else have we taken on trial / loan who has a history of injuries ?

Difference between GMS and OTJ is that the GMS signing has clearly produced the better goods for Dundee Utd. OTJ came here with a record of International football and playing for some pretty decent clubs so when he came here i was really excited, i didn't care about his previous injuries either and it was rather unfortunate it continued into his career at ICT. I'd keep him here for another season though as i still think hes one of the better players worth having around.

Questions - what is the difference between GMS and OTJ and SW (Chorley) ? Who else have we taken on trial / loan who has a history of injuries ?

The difference would be that he didn't complete the trial period before getting injured, wouldn't it?

No idea re the answer to your second question....but should the correct question not have been "Who else have we taken on trial/loan with a history of injuries, who has been injured before the end of the trial period and still been signed?" .......though I couldn't give you an answer to that one either.

Oh gawd - the stalking has started

MARIUS FECKIN NICULAE

Oh gawd - the stalking has started

MARIUS FECKIN NICULAE

Wasn't aware Niculae hadn't trained or played any competitive football in the time since he was injured, before his trial for ICT....and wasn't aware he got injured in his trial period.

I stand corrected........you obviously have a much better memory than I do. (No need to shout, btw!)

Didn't Billy McKay get injured during a warm up down in England (Yeovil?) during his trial period? He was signed though.

Mackay signed and then got injured later that day, I believe.

Oh, for goodness sake, give it a rest! Please. GMS wasnt signed, even everyone at Clach Park that day thought he was great, but.... The others were. End of. Topic closed, please.

It never ceases to amaze me the way folks get their knickers in a twist about something with such a blinkered attitude. GMS impressed at Clach. We are an SPL team. Clach are Highland league and not really doing that well there. Of course he's going to impress at Clach. GMS is doing very well in Dundee and fits in well with the team around him. Would he have fitted in as well with the team we'd have provided around him? Would he even fit in so well with any other of the top flight teams? Nobody knows so getting all het up about what never happened is just plain stupid.

gms didnt want to sign for us. meh his loss.