Artificial pitch would be a great idea. The club could rent it out to the local community for school, street league, amateur/welfare, youth teams and of course us the fans for 5 a side. To good an oportunity to miss imo and with our current pitch being so pump, now would be the time to do it. It may also give us a slight advantage over other sides ;)

bUT DOESN';T THE PLASTIC GIVE RAZOR BURNS ON THE PLAYERS' A..SES

 

Anyway, sniff, it's all ,the fault of IHE with his dastardly dwelling on the dwindling resources of the club related to  the cost of implementing the dire necessity of draining the Aquifer. D'OH!!!!!!

What rubbish football is one of the oldest sports started off on grass and that's the way it should remain there is enough of a plastic issue going on already without adding to it by installing an artificial surface

Ask any decent player and they would prefer to play on grass no argument

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Artificial pitches what then? Venders going around selling hot dogs and popcorn? Karaoke for pop star wannabes at half time?

Scottish football is fast becoming a circus on its own without trying to quicken the process

Dougal

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Dougal

 

Plastic pitches a bit like mergers then ?

What rubbish football is one of the oldest sports started off on grass and that's the way it should remain there is enough of a plastic issue going on already without adding to it by installing an artificial surface

Ask any decent player and they would prefer to play on grass no argument

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Artificial pitches what then? Venders going around selling hot dogs and popcorn? Karaoke for pop star wannabes at half time?

Scottish football is fast becoming a circus on its own without trying to quicken the process

Dougal

You're right Dougal. They're all wooses nowadays. Can't beat the old days of playing in mudbaths with a 50lb wet leather ball and boots that came up to your ankles.

Morning Dougal. As far as I know, contaminated land Regs weren't as strict as nowadays 20 years ago when TCS was being built so there could be anything under there. The landfill was capped and drained but there are still liable to be issues around methane release (if we get a plastic pitch, don't light a match around it) and the odd bit of asbestos or gallium arsenide from batteries leaching through. The players will mutate soon enough.  Billy Mckay missed that chance against St Mirren because the ball bobbled off an old bedspring sticking out of the ground. Seriously, nae danger it's sealed.

As far as I know, there are no regulations from SPFL that would debar a proper FIFA standard 4G or hybrid pitch, and they provide a consistent surface largely unaffected by weather and short growing seasons and would provide a valuable income stream. If, as someone says above, Tommy is interested it can't be all bad.

 

What rubbish football is one of the oldest sports started off on grass and that's the way it should remain there is enough of a plastic issue going on already without adding to it by installing an artificial surface

Ask any decent player and they would prefer to play on grass no argument

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Artificial pitches what then? Venders going around selling hot dogs and popcorn? Karaoke for pop star wannabes at half time?

Scottish football is fast becoming a circus on its own without trying to quicken the process

Dougal

You're right Dougal. They're all wooses nowadays. Can't beat the old days of playing in mudbaths with a 50lb wet leather ball and boots that came up to your ankles.

 

Interesting, did you actually play then Alex?

 

 

What rubbish football is one of the oldest sports started off on grass and that's the way it should remain there is enough of a plastic issue going on already without adding to it by installing an artificial surface

Ask any decent player and they would prefer to play on grass no argument

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Artificial pitches what then? Venders going around selling hot dogs and popcorn? Karaoke for pop star wannabes at half time?

Scottish football is fast becoming a circus on its own without trying to quicken the process

Dougal

You're right Dougal. They're all wooses nowadays. Can't beat the old days of playing in mudbaths with a 50lb wet leather ball and boots that came up to your ankles.

 

Interesting, did you actually play then Alex?

 

Only as a kid. Shinty was my game

Morning Dougal. As far as I know, contaminated land Regs weren't as strict as nowadays 20 years ago when TCS was being built so there could be anything under there. The landfill was capped and drained but there are still liable to be issues around methane release (if we get a plastic pitch, don't light a match around it) and the odd bit of asbestos or gallium arsenide from batteries leaching through. The players will mutate soon enough.  Billy Mckay missed that chance against St Mirren because the ball bobbled off an old bedspring sticking out of the ground. Seriously, nae danger it's sealed.

As far as I know, there are no regulations from SPFL that would debar a proper FIFA standard 4G or hybrid pitch, and they provide a consistent surface largely unaffected by weather and short growing seasons and would provide a valuable income stream. If, as someone says above, Tommy is interested it can't be all bad.

Don't know if there have been changes to the rules but the old SPL didn't allow them. Dunfermline had to lift their pitch and lay grass when they were promoted. Apparantly the system laid at Falkirk is one of the top products on the market just now and is as close as you can get to natural grass. I'm sure I read a while back that the English league clubs are also lobbying their rulers to go to artificial surfaces. I believe the cost of such a surface is around £750,000, including ground preparation, but that can be recouped in no time by renting out. And maintenance costs are reduced dramatically.

Edited April 7, 201412 yr by Alex MacLeod

I think the cost will have to come down Alex. I think these pitches are about to reach saturation (!) level so not sure about renting out in future. Great for the local youth etc and future development of players' skills though.

 

Looking at the Lowland League which I watch quite a lot, 3 of the 12 clubs have plastic pitches (Spartans, Gala, E.Kilbride) and in the EOS Leith Athletic only, I think.

It won't happen in the near future at Whitehill, my local club, because they simply can't afford it, but they train locally twice a week at 2 different 3G facilities. Last season they had to go to an Edinburgh school during the winter, but the demand for pitches in Midlothian has now been largely met with new schools etc.

 

If Whitehill ever got funding for a 3G pitch I doubt it would make them much money, due to being situated in a village of 2000 with a decent choice of pitches in nearby towns.

 

For people who hanker for the old days when ICT toured the lower leagues, Stenhousemuir and Alloa are both synthetic surfaces nowadays. 

Have to say I prefer grass myself but.....

Broadwood is also synthetic and is licenced by SRU for rugby matches.

Rather than hogging another thread on the subject I wonder what are the views of others regarding modern synthetic pitches. My understanding is that the 3 and 4G are very like grass and are not as hard on players as the older types. I know there are a few lower league teams playing on them and I also believe Cumbernauld Rugby Club use Broadwood at times.

There are also a lot of advantages in that the surface can be played on more regularly and can be used for sports other than football so clubs can gain finance from letting the pitch. There is a vastly reduced maintenance cost as well.

I've never walked, let alone played any sport, on a synthetic surface so haven't a clue about negative aspects of it but I'm sure many of you will enlighten me on this.

Is synthetic the way forward?

 

 

Did find an article here http://bleacherreport.com/articles/449490-artificial-pitches-and-football-a-history

Edited April 7, 201412 yr by Alex MacLeod

Broadwood is also synthetic and is licenced by SRU for rugby matches.

 

Strangely, Highland rugby club are playing a final down there later this month!

I think Murrayfield Stadium is laying a hybrid pitch. I'm not even sure what that is! It obviously (I assume) won't 'cut up', but I can't imagine seeing a rugby pitch in pristine condition at the end of a game with the players' kits looking like something out of a Persil advert!

 

I still prefer traditional grass. One thing that can be an irritant, to me, are synthetic pitches that cater for a variety of sports but have the different lines permanently drawn!

 

I think the cost will have to come down Alex. I think these pitches are about to reach saturation (!) level so not sure about renting out in future. Great for the local youth etc and future development of players' skills though.

 

Looking at the Lowland League which I watch quite a lot, 3 of the 12 clubs have plastic pitches (Spartans, Gala, E.Kilbride) and in the EOS Leith Athletic only, I think.

It won't happen in the near future at Whitehill, my local club, because they simply can't afford it, but they train locally twice a week at 2 different 3G facilities. Last season they had to go to an Edinburgh school during the winter, but the demand for pitches in Midlothian has now been largely met with new schools etc.

 

If Whitehill ever got funding for a 3G pitch I doubt it would make them much money, due to being situated in a village of 2000 with a decent choice of pitches in nearby towns.

 

For people who hanker for the old days when ICT toured the lower leagues, Stenhousemuir and Alloa are both synthetic surfaces nowadays. 

Have to say I prefer grass myself but.....

Doing some research I note Hamilton's cost £400,000

I think the cost will have to come down Alex. I think these pitches are about to reach saturation (!) level so not sure about renting out in future. Great for the local youth etc and future development of players' skills though.

 

Looking at the Lowland League which I watch quite a lot, 3 of the 12 clubs have plastic pitches (Spartans, Gala, E.Kilbride) and in the EOS Leith Athletic only, I think.

It won't happen in the near future at Whitehill, my local club, because they simply can't afford it, but they train locally twice a week at 2 different 3G facilities. Last season they had to go to an Edinburgh school during the winter, but the demand for pitches in Midlothian has now been largely met with new schools etc.

 

If Whitehill ever got funding for a 3G pitch I doubt it would make them much money, due to being situated in a village of 2000 with a decent choice of pitches in nearby towns.

 

For people who hanker for the old days when ICT toured the lower leagues, Stenhousemuir and Alloa are both synthetic surfaces nowadays. 

Have to say I prefer grass myself but.....

Mantis, have you any inkling who the 7 'mystery' teams are that have reportedly indicated they're wanting to (or have indeed applied to) join the Lowland League?

Curious as to whether any of them are from the Juniors?!

Football is the beautiful game.  If modern synthetic / hybrid pitches allow skillful players to demonstrate those skills to greater effect, then I'm all for them. 

If the club could afford it I'd be all for a Fifa standard 4G or hybrid. I've played 11s (not at any great standard) on both surfaces over the years and always reckoned the standard of the games played was far higher when played on a decent new 4G pitch rather than on grass. No dodgy bobbles or massive mud patches to negotiate meant you could concentrate on what you were going to do when you got to the ball and not have to worry about whether it will reach you and if it does take a first touch to control it. the most modern of pitches don't leave burns when you slide and feel just about the same to run and pass on.

 

Obviously better players than myself, and there are millions, would have the skill levels to be able to cope with these fluctuations in pitch quality. but imagine they didn't. imagine they could play a game on one surface as they had on the last. Would the overall quality not improve?

 

if we lived in a country where our pitches (at all levels) could be guaranteed to stay good throughout the long season then grass definitely. But we don't and games can easily get cancelled and end of season games can descend into a farce and be won and lost by a errant bobble just when it matters the most. The EPL have a good standard of pitches through the season as they have the resources to keep them that way. We don't and we should make use of the technology that is available. 

the first option should always be grass but where it can't last the season artificial is just as good.

I think Murrayfield Stadium is laying a hybrid pitch. I'm not even sure what that is! It obviously (I assume) won't 'cut up', but I can't imagine seeing a rugby pitch in pristine condition at the end of a game with the players' kits looking like something out of a Persil advert!

 

I still prefer traditional grass. One thing that can be an irritant, to me, are synthetic pitches that cater for a variety of sports but have the different lines permanently drawn!

As far as I'm aware a hybrid surface is a mixture of grass and artificial surface.

 

I think the cost will have to come down Alex. I think these pitches are about to reach saturation (!) level so not sure about renting out in future. Great for the local youth etc and future development of players' skills though.

 

Looking at the Lowland League which I watch quite a lot, 3 of the 12 clubs have plastic pitches (Spartans, Gala, E.Kilbride) and in the EOS Leith Athletic only, I think.

It won't happen in the near future at Whitehill, my local club, because they simply can't afford it, but they train locally twice a week at 2 different 3G facilities. Last season they had to go to an Edinburgh school during the winter, but the demand for pitches in Midlothian has now been largely met with new schools etc.

 

If Whitehill ever got funding for a 3G pitch I doubt it would make them much money, due to being situated in a village of 2000 with a decent choice of pitches in nearby towns.

 

For people who hanker for the old days when ICT toured the lower leagues, Stenhousemuir and Alloa are both synthetic surfaces nowadays. 

Have to say I prefer grass myself but.....

Mantis, have you any inkling who the 7 'mystery' teams are that have reportedly indicated they're wanting to (or have indeed applied to) join the Lowland League?

Curious as to whether any of them are from the Juniors?!

 

(Wonders if there's any way of splitting the thread in two so we can get on with laughing at Cownty)

 

P&B thread here covers it

Gets interesting around page 10

As far as I'm aware, Spartans have a hybrid at their new complex and Rangers have one at Murray Park. Must be soft and flexi if rugby can be played on it.

Edited April 7, 201412 yr by caleyboy

If the day comes that top sides start laying these pitches you will see thousands of supporters walk away from the game and never return

Artificial pitches what then? Venders going around selling hot dogs and popcorn? Karaoke for pop star wannabes at half time?

Scottish football is fast becoming a circus on its own without trying to quicken the process

 

The day is already here .....

 

DESSO Grassmaster Hybrid systems seem to be the preferred option now ... installed at Arsenal, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Man City, Wembley, AC Milan, Feyenoord and many more ... will also be used for the stadium in Sao Paolo at Brazil 2014 and was used in South Africa in 2010 

 

http://www.dessosports.com/hybrid-grass

http://www.dessosports.com/sports/football/football-projects

 

A lot of debate raging about this in Toronto right now as TFC are thinking of replacing the natural grass they installed in 2010 with this stuff due to the possibility (or near certainty) that the stadium will have some additional tenants soon (Toronto Argonauts of the CFL)  .... A friend of mine, who was a football fan long before he was a journalist, wrote an article about it and he expresses the same fears we all have..

Any idea what cost of hybrid system?

No idea what it will be costing TFC as its part of a $120m upgrade of BMO Field. The only real reference I can find to recent costs is an article published last year that says its going in at Old Trafford at a cost of £800,000: http://www.insideworldfootball.com/world-football/europe/12657-pitch-battle-prompts-manchester-united-to-switch-to-new-surface

 

Reading also installed the same technology in 2004 and this article says it cost £750,000 plus about £65K a year to maintain. The scary part is that the article also mentioned that it had to be completely relaid in 2007 so it was £750K X2 !!!! http://thetilehurstend.sbnation.com/2011/06/16/field-of-dreams-the-story-of-the-playing-surface-of-the-madejski-stadium/

 

If the Wiki page is to be believed, its already installed at Easter Road and Ibrox and according to Scottish Rugby will shortly be installed at Murrayfield: http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/14/02/04/new-hybrid-grass-pitch-be-constructed-murrayfield

If it were to happen I would canny enough to start taking orders for the turf that can be sold when ever it gets replaced. Aberdeen had to play a cup game on an artificial pitch and one of their injured players trained at a ground with artificial, to see if they could play in time and it just niggled the Injury. I'm sure the tecnology is improving all the time though.

If it were to happen I would canny enough to start taking orders for the turf that can be sold when ever it gets replaced. Aberdeen had to play a cup game on an artificial pitch and one of their injured players trained at a ground with artificial, to see if they could play in time and it just niggled the Injury. I'm sure the tecnology is improving all the time though.

 

The argument about DESSO is that its not technically 'artificial' .. its 97% natural grass and only 3% artificial ... the artificial portion being designed to make it more durable but not as damaging to players bodies as the old "Field Turf" product. Its not like the artificial pitch that is/was(?) at the Bught or better quality ones like (I think) East Stirling (or was it Stirling Albion?) !!! I will be interested to hear the comments made at this year's world cup when it is used for the opening game and one of the groups based in Sao Paolo. 

 

 

Toronto started off with Field Turf and although it was top of the range at the time it was still really brutal !!! weird bounces, bad injuries, and one time a flare was thrown onto pitch and a small square of the pitch went on fire. That was replaced with real grass in 2010 thanks to the transfer money received from Rangers for Edu but now that the Toronto Argonauts are likely to become unwanted lodgers in the stadium, DESSO is being touted as the solution, especially as quite a few other top level stadia in Europe use it and a few of those have both football and rugby teams to deal with which - if you replace rugby with the Canadian version of NFL - is the scenario for TFC sharing with the Argos. I remain to be convinced !!!