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Why are people in such a rage about county getting 4000? The novelty will wear off soon enough.

Didn't Alex Ferguson rule with an iron fist also? He even went so far as to kick a boot at so-called top players on occasion. Didn't seem to stop his run of successes, did it? Since when was a fair bit of discipline and control a bad thing for the younger players--and maybe for a few of the older ones too. Terry is probably from the old school when there was a fair bit of respect for those older than thou. It just came with the territory. Nowadays many of the younger element think they are the equal of their elders despite having the life experience of a gnat. I repeat, let's give the Manager a fair break, and time to consolidate his team and his plans before jumping down his throat .

Why do people want Rooney back in January when Claude Gnapka is available RIGHT NOW!

You fail you mention that I did say that "most of the damage was done under Brewster", while Tokely had been playing centre-half for some weeks previously, Mihadjuks was playing in a position he'd never played before in the clubs most important game ever. Surely playing Mihadjuks and Tokely in their natural positions would've made more sense, no? Oh wow! Number one at County! He must be some sort of Peter Schmeichel/Oliver Kahn/*insert great goalkeeper here* hybrid! No doubt County will be declining bids from Barcelona, AC Milan and tons of other major clubs come January! In all seriousness though, is it logical to go with a poorer goalkeeper to the one on the bench for the club's most important game ever and the couple beforehand once Esson had come back from suspension? Of course not. And it's even more ridiculous when you consider that Michael Fraser had already signed a pre-contract with Motherwell. It was an utterly ludicrous and decisive decision. County are close to doubling the amount of unbeaten games that ICT did, which also includes games in the SPL and would be even longer had they not been gubbed by Hamilton earlier in the season. It's also an unbeaten run that has included Grant Munro almost in it's entirety and now includes Ross Tokely. Butcher punting Munro was the best thing that ever happened to County. But you and your ilk would probably find some way of praising him for that as well! Cool story bro.....albeit a little camp. Even if the club is hurtling towards relegation? Wow the Irish lads. Brewster had some good signings as well, should he have kept his job just because of that? I bet you probably did! Don't really see how the two are related to be honest. Short memories no - I have acknowledged the good times under Butcher, but they cannot justify his staying hin the job for life, especially if the reasons why we are in such a mess is done to his decisions.

Not that many of them were penalties. When Rooney got his most regular run in the team (SFL1 season and 1st SPL season) he scored 48 goals in all competitions (League and Cup [excluding North of Scotland Cup and Friendlies] ) 13 of which were penalties or 27%. To be honest, I would want my regular goal scorer, high on confidence, to take penalties as there's more chance he would score. People level this idea that a lot of his goals were penalties like it's a bad thing. It's a shame people seem to almost belittle what Rooney did with us.

if 4000 dwellers are in one place at one time every second saturday then less of them are settin up camp elsewhere. thats a positive thing

i know how i'll react. it wont be pretty that is all!!

I hope you're right Luke. Keep the rose tinted spectacles nice and clean!

Now that I agree with. I am by no means advocating to sack him this minute and the next couple of months will be the most telling of how the season will pan out, and he should have the time to do that. What I would say though, is that the Highland Derby in October could well be the most important match in the history of his managerial career and should ICT be on the end of a drubbing with Munro, Tokely and Duncan running the show, then in many people's eyes his position may well become untenable.

I'm no believer in this view that just because a manager has had success in the past means that they should be untouchable or is the man for the job for life. John Beck managed two consecutive promotions at Cambridge United and in his third season was sixteen minutes from guiding them to the inaugural Premiership season in 1992. They just missed out and no more. The following season, he had them hurtling towards relegation with both fading away into obscurity ever since. Paul Le Guen is another one. His record pre-Rangers was very strong, but it didn't save him from the sack. There's an old saying that a manager's second season is always his best and where Butcher is concerned it could be argued that he has two at ICT. The season after relegation was his second season here and his first full one in charge. As we all know, it was very successful. The season after as well (his second full season here), was also fairly successful and on another day could well have obtained a top six finish. It should also be noted, that both these seasons contained players that could be described as "vintage ICT" who had been at the club for a number of years, with Stuart Golabek's return being the only one instated by Butcher himself. Many though seem to forget, that ICT should have stayed up in 2009, but Butcher blew it with weeks remaining, opting to play the weaker and already leaving Michael Fraser over Esson and playing Pavels Mihadjuks out of position in the final game. While it's true that most of the damage was done under Brewster, Butcher certainly played his part. Just because someone has been the "man for the job" in the past, does not mean he always will be or should be in the job for life. Very few managers ever go to a club without it eventually turning sour, or becoming progressively stale and Butcher's time may now be upon us. Not long before he left Motherwell, I remember reading that while many fans did not want to see him fired, they did feel that he had run his course. I believe this may be scenario more and more of us will find ourselves in, in the very near future.

People will never be totally happy with Butcher now after he broke the team out of their comfort zone. He got rid of the old guard and has tried to put his own stamp on the team which has backfired on him amongst financial difficulty and a failure to retain our better players. He has done what he can to put the team back together over the summer and has also been willing to give the younger lads a chance with places up for grab and i will always respect him for that. His new style is drawing debate after the weekend and i agree with some comments that maybe sometimes we should focus more on getting results rather than playing well and losing. While its a honorable approach it is more likely to see us on the end of a defeat, especially against better teams. Give the man some time. Still dosent know what his best team is and has had a difficult set of fixtures to contend with at the start of the season.

The way I see it butcher has been here three FULL seasons and in one of them he got us promoted brilliantly and gave us our best ever league finish. So that's 2/3 very good seasons and lets be honest at the start of last season most on here said staying up would be our no 1 goal and we did so he's done his job last season whether people on here liked how he did it or not. Why sack a man for giving what fans ask for?

He could also snuggle under his duvet and watch Rastamouse.

Or just ignore you now :lol: Insistent pests are difficult to ignore, especially intelligent ones.

Calm down children it'll never happen , moot question IMHO .

The success of the SNP in doing a good job in a devolved Government has put the SNP in an impossible position in my view. Devolution has worked well for Scotland and part of that success is that we get a good deal out of it. The Union works for the rest of the UK and they do not want an independent Scotland. The underlying threat is that unless we can see that we too are benefitting from the union, we all just might side with the SNP and vote for independence. As long as the devolved Government was not an SNP Government, no Scottish Government was ever going to call for a referendum and the tactic of keeping us relatively sweet has been in everyone's interests. However, this all changed once the SNP came into power in Hollyrood. The SNP is the party of independence and had absolutely no option but to seek a referendum on the issue. It would have been political suicide not to. The paradox for Salmond here is that he knows he is very unlikely to win the referendum vote because we do reasonably well out of the union. He knows that there are large numbers who have voted for the SNP simply because they are doing well in running a devolved Government. These people will not vote "yes " in a referendum and relatively few who have not voted SNP in the Hollyrood elections will do so either. Salmond also knows that if Scotland votes "no" he will lose his trump card around the negotiating table and Scotland will get a poorer deal within the union. Salmond's success at Hollyrood has therefore pushed him into a postion where he is forced to take action which almost certainly will make Scotland worse off. Salmond is an astute politician and he will do all he can to win the vote. He has done well to delay the vote as long as possible and the seriousness with which he will fight the campaign has been highlighted today with the announcement that the very able Nichola Sturgeon will step down from her Health brief to oversee the campaign. I am sure they would rather have the vote when the country was in more of a mess than it is - but don't write them off. For me the question in not whether independence will see us better off than we are now, it is whether it will see us better off than if we vote "no". I've yet to make my mind up on independence but I do think that up to now, devolution has worked rather well for us. I'm just not so sure it will work so well in the future.

Think he's talking about the 'good old days' not te calderwood days

We've been subsidising the English portion of the National Debt for the past 300+ years....pretty sure we could get ourselves sorted out in less time that.

Three young signings called up for international duty, I would say that is pretty good management selection on a low budget! A forward line that is scoring goals consistantly, A team trying to play entertaining football, A team that fights back when down. A team that is still to gel and reach full understanding of eachothers capabilities and yet is improving regardless of losses. Give the Manager the credit he deserves please and drop this negativity. This team can and will do well under Terry. Maybe we cant all go to the fixtures but I'm sure we can all give the team and manager our support. That can only do good!!

Only thing that saddens me about this thread is that Terry probably reads it.