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We are on the worst run in our clubs history, we are bottom of the table and are six points away from safety. Our next three league matches are against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic, all games we will be heavily favoured to lose. Assume that we get through those games with the same gap, we'll need to make up six points on someone in the last eleven games. Can anyone honestly say that we are capable of doing that? We have been abysmal this season, of all the regular players who would anyone say has had a good season? Tremarco, perhaps? Other than him I can't think of anyone who has performed to the levels required. We have a goalkeeper who constantly makes mistakes that cost us goals and matches, a defence who constantly present the ball to the opposition, a midfield who can't use the ball to attack or cover the ground to defend, attackers who can't score or create chances, notwithstanding the last-minute loan signing on deadline day. On top of this we have a manager who makes constant changes to no effect, doesn't appear to have a plan, doesn't seem able to organise the team properly and can't get a win. If we hadn't appointed Foran and had recruited someone externally who had this record fans would be far less forgiving. Foran is a legend as a player but we are in serious danger of being relegated and falling down the Dunfermline / St Miren shaped hole of lower league obscurity. The hope has to be that we make a huge improvement in the next ten games or so because if we continue to play the way we have this season we are going down, it's a certainty.

That is beyond ridiculous. I count myself as Invernessian. I was born in Inverness, went to school in Inverness and even went back to Inverness to work there for a brief spell after university. I am proud to be Invernessian .Despite having chosen to make my life elsewhere I have a continuing interest in the future and fortunes of what I regard as my home town. Notwithstanding being Invernessian to my very bones, I have no vote in the constituency whereas someone born in Paris but now living in Drummond does because they are domiciled in Inverness and that is entirely as it should be. A Scot permanently resident in England or elsewhere abroad has a legitimate concern and interest in the future and wellbeing of their native country but, having left, has no right to vote in determining it's future. That too is entirely as it should be. Finally, if you don't think that a vote to remove Scotland from the EU doesn't represent a material change, what on earth do you think would ?

DD, What change is more material than being removed from the EU, having stayed in the Union on the basis that it was the only way to guarantee staying in the EU? In fact,into the bargain, what is more of a material change than the imposition of EVEL, which prevents Scottish constituency MPs voting on "English only" law, even when the passing of that law will impact on the Barnett Consequentials, which are part of the Scottish income....or more material than the recent acknowledgement by Westminster that the Sewell Convention applies to what Westminster says it applies to...thus illustrating that Scotland can not even define what is a devolved matter within the devolved competencies. However, if you notice, a second indyref hasn't yet been called. It is still avoidable if Westminster does as much for Scotland in negotiations as she intends,it is being said, to do for NI, the car industry, the financial services industry, Gibraltar, the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands etc. I'm not holding my breath, but you can if you like. What once in a generation pledge? There is nothing in the Edinburgh Agreement, the Memorandum of agreement or the Section 30 order stating anything about any "once in a generation pledge". Because Alex Salmond said it in a BBC interview after the vote and just before he resigned as First Minister makes it a pledge from the first SNP FM of Scotland. He cannot bind any future FM of Scotland to his personal opinion, any more than any PM of the UK can bind any other administration to his/her policy continuation, far less to anything said in a BBC interview. You want a list of all the "promises" made by future PMs pre-election which got either ignored or u-turned on when THEY got into power. Alex Salmond made no promise he didn't keep...he just was not, after he resigned, in a position to keep it. Anyway, what is meant by a generation? A generation in Westminster Politics is five years and, in Scottish politics, four years and we are into both those generations now...and this is the first time those of the 14-15yo generation who could not vote in indyref1 will likely be eligible to vote in a future referendum. I don't actually see what you are getting your knickers in a twist about, though, the bill went through, as we all knew that it would, given the whips imposed...or did you honestly think every MP in the House of Commons should dutifully vote for the bill to show solidarity with a Brexit they never wanted...and allow the Tories and UKIP to claim that the whole country was behind them. Hecky thump, MPs/MSPs won't even vote for bills, decent bills, even if lifted by the party proposing it straight from their own manifestos, because if they are not proposing they oppose(or sit on their hands).

Ryan Calder Essen, David Hastings Raven, Gary Warren-Mann, Brad Tokely McKay, Carl Golabek Tremarco, Greg Christie Tansey, Ross McCulloch Draper, Iain Sheerin Vigurs, Billy Wilson King Billy Wyness Mckay Henry Teasdale Anier Subs confirmed - Aaron Bavidge Doran, Larnell Glancy Cole and Scott Byers Boden Manager Richie Ronaldo Foran ns

Whilst the club are currently shaking their head at the lunacy of JH sitting on his erse while still paying his wages. You place Yogi up on a pedestal, but it appears to have been his decision to engineer his departure. Anyway, you make a moot point. It's irrelevant. We are where we are. and I'll bet you were amongst the boo-ers too!

if we want to be certain of avoiding relegation we have to finish 10th. Here are the points totals for a tenth placed finish in the SPL and the Scottish Premiership in the last ten seasons 06/07 - Motherwell - 38 pts / Points Per game - 1 07/08 - St Mirren - 41 pts / PPG - 1.07 08/09 - Falkirk - 38 pts / PPG - 1 09/10 - St Mirren - 34 pts / PPG - 0.89 10/11 - Hibs - 37 pts / PPG - 0.97 11/12 - ICT - 39 pts / PPG - 1.02 12/13 - Hearts - 44 pts / PPG - 1.15 13/14 - Partick Thistle - 38 pts / PPG - 1 14/15 - Kilmarnock - 41 pts / PPG - 1.07 15/16 - Hamilton - 43 pts / PPG - 1.13 The average tenth places team has 39 points and a PPG of 1.02. So far this season we have 18 points and a PPG of 0.75 in 24 games. So to make it to the average level that assures safety we need to win 21 points in the final 14 games, a PPG of 1.5 To put that into context, that would be the PPG ratio we had during season 2013/14 when we finished fifth and got to the league cup final, our second best season ever in the top flight. That's the sort of level of achievement we need for the rest of the season, double what we've done so far. And that's to get 39 points - as you can see in five of the last ten seasons that wouldn't actually be enough. We've won 3 / 24 league games this season - realistically to get 21 points in 14 games we'll need to win a very minimum of five games. I'd say that we need to win all of our home games up until the split, excluding Celtic and maybe Rangers . Then we need to look at winning away to Partick Thistle and Motherwell. Really going unbeaten between now and the split is a minimum requirement to stay up, unless we lose three and win six or lose four and win five. That might put us in a decent position. I haven't seen anything from this team that suggests we are going to do that. Our best chance is for one or more teams to go on a terrible run and then we can overhaul them and try to win the play-off. The best case scenario is that Mckay's return boosts us by stretching opposition teams, taking the pressure off our defence and making us more threatening. We need the underperforming players (all of them really) to suddenly improve and start playing at levels we've seen previously from them. I hope it happens but the far more likely outcome is that we can't do it and we are relegated.

We need to get a sense of perspective. Yes, relegation, although a distinct possibility is far from inevitable and, if we can show the same sort of spirit as for most of the Dundee game we stand a reasonable chance of staying up. However, even if we do go down, although there will be very significant financial implications, we have been prudently run and will not face the prospect of administration nor are we likely to have to go part time although the wage bill will have to be trimmed and, sadly, some good people behind the scenes will probably lose their jobs. Relegation, if it happens, will be a huge blow but it won't be a fatal one especially if the fans stick by the team in the Championship but, right now, the task is for everyone to pull together and turn this around so that we don't face that prospect.

Having been lucky enough to live in a few different countries, I have never felt the urge to tell the people of those countries how they should think or act, especially on matters concerning identity, culture, and politics. To me, that might come across as arrogant and condescending. Other nationalities don't seem encumbered by such reticence, and fair play to them I suppose.

In what sense is that relevant? I profoundly disagree with almost everything DD has to say on this thread but he has chosen to make his domicile here and has every right to have an opinion on the future of the country as has everyone else on the electoral roll in Scotland irrespective of the country of their birth. The argument for independence is slowly being won. It appears that a very narrow majority of native born Scots voted yes at the last referendum if the polling companies are to be believed. It is precisely the people not born here but who have chosen to live their lives here who need to be convinced next time around.

No need to get touchy, you might be ICTs version of ISA for all I know.

Yep! "but the view is from a different place! " The building is known as ...."Viewplace"......Culduthel Road. More tomorrow........

I'll give credit to Oddquine for at least not resorting to sound bite one liners. It doesn't make her statements true or her arguments valid but at least she makes an effort to engage in meaningful debate. Let's start with the oft repeated nonsense about us voting to stay in the Union because to do so was the only way to stay in the EU. Statements to that effect were made by "No" campaigners, but in the context of response to the completely unsubstantiated assertions within the Scottish Government's glossy 670 page document "Scotland's Future", that Scotland would take its place in the EU immediately on becoming independent. The "Yes" campaign pointed out that this was very far from certain and that the only way to ensure we remained in the EU was to remain in the UK. And, of course, they were correct in the sense that Scotland voted to remain in the UK and we do currently remain in the EU. Of course, Brexit means that we will not be in the EU much longer and the much more important thing here is what the Scottish Government said about that before the 2014 referendum. In "Scotland's Future" in the Q&A section, the Scottish Government specifically asked "What impact will the Conservative Party Proposal to have a UK referendum on EU membership have?" The response repeated the assertion that if we voted for independence we would be an independent nation within the UK before the rUK vote took place, But it concluded by saying "However, if we do not become Independent, we risk being taken out of the EU against our will," There is absolutely no suggestion of a 2nd referendum in the event of a UK vote to leave the EU. Given that they recognised and addressed the prospect of a UK referendum taking us out of the EU in the document they put before the nation to support the case for independence, they can hardly say it's a game changer and nobody could have seen it coming! As for the once in a generation bit, there were numerous times when both Salmond and Sturgeon stated it was a once in a generation (and on occasions, lifetime) opportunity. But again, we need to look at the Scottish Government's official proposal document to the nation, "Scotland's Future", when the then First Minister wrote in his preface "It is a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland - a once in a generation opportunity to chart a better way". And then in the Q&A section the Scottish Government posed the question "If Scotland votes No, will there be another referendum on Independence at a later date?" The answer concluded that "It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once in a generation opportunity". This was therefore not an off-the-cuff TV interview remark, this was the clear and considered position of the Scottish Government. You make reference to the Edinburgh agreement and that there was nothing in that to say this was a once in a generation pledge. Well, it didn't need to! The legislation allowed for a single referendum and it presumably did that simply because the Scottish Government's position was that this was a one off!

Couldn't agree more with a lot of that, however some seem to think that fighting back to draw 2-2 against an average Dundee team is turning the corner and going to propel us upwards, however I am more reserved and will rather wait and see if this is progress or just a one off improvement. For some Foran can do no wrong and its obvious that he still doesn't know his best team and has limited ability to vary the tactics making us very predictable. The parallels between us this season and DUtd are there for all to see - and in some ways worryingly we have brought in the strike force that helped take them down to try keep us up. We are in dire straights and just to emphasise that - last league win was end of Oct away and last home win was Sept!!!

Is it just me or does anyone else not rate Billy Mckay as a penalty kick taker? I know Tansey has missed one or two this season, but overall I'd bet his record is a lot better than Billy's. Both of Billy's penalties yesterday could have been saved, and I seem to remember when he was here before, although he scored a few, many of them , like yesterday, were not exactly well struck. I'd far prefer to see Tansey take any future ones.

Not sure I quite subscribe to the logic in that statement. The onus is on us to gain ground on these other sides, and as every every match goes by without us narrowing the gap, the likelihood of relegation increases. Saturday might have been an improved performance but is was ultimately another poor result.

Mangetout Rodney, mangetout.

That was some game!. A terrific effort from the lads and good support from the crowd as well. What a difference Mckay made! But credit Foran for picking a side to play to his strengths. Having Anier and McKay up front with King wide on the right and with Draper playing behind the front two caused Dundee all sorts of problems. All four of them were excellent and put in a fantastic shift. It left acres of space wide on the left which Tremarco exploited very well. He nearly scored when he hit the post early in the first half and had chances later in the game as well. Billy M was superb, but why was he taking the penalties? He has always been rubbish at spot kicks and I'd have any of Tansey, Draper or Vigurs taking the kicks before Billy. It was great to see Tansey score but why oh why does he not provide support to the front men a bit more? How often do we see attacks break down with the ball running loose around the edge of the box and there is nobody there to exploit it. Tansey's goal was a prime example of exactly why he needs to get up the park a bit more. We could have scored a few more, but whilst that attacking performance provides hope for the rest of the season, the defensive performance provides concerns. OFW has not been at his best this season but I'm not sure he deserved to be dropped. Esson's performance was not great and he was unable to command the box. The second goal came from a corner which should never have been conceded. A cross was aimed at the back post but was well short. It should have been an easy, unchallenged take on the 6 yard line but he stayed on the line and left Warren to deal with it. Again we looked pretty fragile in the centre of defence. Clearly it was difficult for young McCart to have been thrown in to this environment and I think that it would be unfair to criticise him. He needs time to settle in and gain a bit of experience. The fact that he was on from the start clearly demonstrates the lack of defensive options we have. There is some serious work to do to make the defence more solid. I predict a 7-3 defeat at Parkhead next week! Finally a word on the referee. He made a few odd decisions but full marks to him for awarding the two penalties. Far too often we see players wrestled to the ground in the box and the referees doing nothing, so it was good to see a referee prepared to take action for once.

First quarter of the match or so really had me believing. Ultimately both sides had chances and on balance can't complain with a draw at the end of the day, however disappointing it may seem. We seem to have a major issue with out defence. Brad definitely had a bad game last weekend but for me McCart was way worse and I really hope Brad/Josh is back next week. Yes McCart is young and short of match time, but his positioning, passing and ball winning was poor. Hopefully with time he'll come good, but in meantime subs bench imo. Esson was rusty for sure, goal number 2 seemed to go through the legs of Warren (?) then a defender plus Esson, all of whom looked to be in the line of the ball and goal. Kicking was poor (never his forte) but overall no worse than OFW in recent games, but certainly no better. Warren still seems to be below the levels of performance we know of old. Vigurs fairly stepped up, asserted himself physically from the start. Draper had a good game, Tansey was up a notch from recent performance although still not back to his best (tremendous finish for his goal) and Billy King was my motm. Anier was quietly effective without attracting headlines, and my goodness, I can't put into words how great it is to see Billy Mckay back. Showed exactly what we've been missing, hopefully in time he'll develope a dangerous relationship with Anier. Sadly keeper sussed him for second penalty - Billy waited til he made his move for first but keeper guessed correctly that he'd do exact same for second and saved easily, no pace on it. Bit disappointed to see that Tansey is dropped as penalty taker after a tremendous record with just one miss, Billy - like Rooney - had awful record with penalties for us, despite fantastic scoring stats otherwise. Plenty of positives overall but still loads to improve on and still don't know best team. Midfield and front line look like they could be OK as long as confidence stays up but defence is a worry. not a great run of games coming up but then again these are historically the ones where we unexpectedly pick up more points than forecast!

credit to the team digging in and grinding out a point. When i seen 2-0 at HT i rolled my eyes and thought here we go again but to pull it back to 2-2 hopefully will give the team a bit more confidence. Shows what some fight can do. We will be needing it for the next 4 games. My eye's will be glued to the TV next Saturday morning. Don't think there is enough alcohol in Belfast to get me through it

A phrase which reminds us of the importance of commas!

AXE THE ACT!!!!!

I'm not going to respond to Oddquine's rant in full. It would take far too long. I'll just respond to the nonsense at the beginning and the nonsense at the end. Oddquine starts with the standard nationalist trick of making her point based on what she would have liked her political opponent to have said rather than on what they actually did say. I'm not going to waste time repeating what I said but suffice it to say that her reply completely fails to address the point I was making. She concludes by refuting my suggestion that the Scottish Government does not even know what currency we would use following independence - but then makes a statement which clearly demonstrates my point! And all the stuff in between equally misses the point. Yes, I understand that the constitutional position of Scotland within the United Kingdom is complex but I fail to see the point of debating that when the relevant issues are far more straightforward. We have a Scottish Government which is refusing to respect the results of two referendums and which lied to its people about its intention to honour the result of the independence referendum. Yet somehow in her lengthy post Oddquine simply ignores this shameful anti-democratic behaviour. Personally I think the behaviour of the Scottish Parliament in 2017 is rather more relevant than that of the English Parliament in 1687.

At least with those ages me and Donview are out of the frame.

I did briefly misread the above words and assumed we had to sing with in a Marilyn Munro, happy birthday to you stylee and wondered if that would actually help the players, lol. Sexily sing he scores when he wants !

Can't believe the number of happy clappers on this thread, I watched two pretty poor teams, we lost two goals a decent amateur side would be ashamed of and Dundee should have put us away just after half time they missed two gilt edged opportunities, it says it all I'm afraid about Scotland's top flight. Based on that performance, despite the fightback we are going down, we have no shape, no style, our defending is laughable, passes into feet don't stick, the first touch of most players is appalling, players in space play chest high passes and our forward play is based on hopeful balls played in the general direction of the forwards. I can't believe a team which looked so organised for the last two seasons could degenerate so quickly but it has. JH must be aghast watching what passes for an ICT team. To all those who lobbied for RF to replace JH I hope you are enjoying what you are watching, sometimes, you should be careful what you wish for. The fact is, despite a horrendous injury list last season JH picked up results when we had no right to expect them, that's what twenty years management experience brings. The decision by the board to get rid of an experienced manager and appoint a complete rookie on a four year contract will go down as one of the greatest ever blunders in football. All the hubris of the summer has now evaporated, go back and watch the interview with Kenny Cameron and RF and laugh out loud. Feel free to red dot me as much as you want I couldn't care less, I am angry at how a promising set up and style of play for the club was tossed in the garbage after two and a half years of hard work to be replaced by this rubbish.Were I JH I would be shaking my head at the sheer lunacy of it.

What are your roles within the club you two?