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Crap, thats pritty much what the 1st half in one word. We spent most of the half trying to get the ball out of our box. St Johnstone should've been out of sight by half time. 1st goal was a shambles. Tokely shouldve headered it and McCann shouldve been tracking Samuel.

McCann in for Duncan was the most pointless change i have seen in a long time. And it showed as McCann looked off the pace and lacking practice. The team should've just been kept unchanged.

The 2nd half was a minor improvement, we carved out a couple of good opportunities and St Johnstone had some more chances themselves. Rooney had a header which produced a great save from Graeme Smith and then lead to the goal, a great through ball from Foran and Johnny hit a nice low shot under the keeper.

Both sides had their spells of dominance towards the end but couldn't muster a winner and after the pathetic sharade that was the 1st half i was content with a point.

We cannot afford to perform like that against a so called relegation rival again this season.

WHY drop Russel Duncan WHY?!?!?!?!?!

He is vital for us to win games should never be dropped again i knew we wouldn't win when i heard he was benched.

The game didn't flow well at all until about 70 mins. I think foran needs to be put back to left forward we need somebody who can challenge a tall and strong centre back - like dubbery- in the air

All in all the game was pish

Duncan needs to start!!!!

No ones really mentioned how poor n out the game Foran was today, granty had a no bad game rossco was shocking, that said st johnnys seemed that little debit quicker n fitter than us, shinnie and road linked up well, its a tough one, I will say the singers were missing today at the start, n moat of the noise came from towards the west stand until the last 20mins, and I don't think they deserved the booos n hard times some gave them today, yes if we were on a losing streak but we are not. We deserved the point, they played very well. We didn't really, but hey **** happens.

I agree that Foran must play further forward. Although he did a great job in his midfield position, he's wasted there and someone else can do that role.

***off-topic***

I had hoped to make it up the road today but the plans fell through.

Instead I went to see Whitehill Welfare play Tynecastle FC.

The visiting coach was this chap, who was sent to the stand after disputing a Whitehill penalty:

Edited October 16, 201015 yr by TheMantis

That looks rather like a man who scored a somewhat unusual goal the last time we played St J.

No better looking now than he was then.

Hayes took the goal superbly IMVHO. We should have won the game by a great margin - even with the a slightly lacklustre performance in the first half. St Johnstone are a big side - but not a footballing side. Europe here we come.

***off-topic***

I had hoped to make it up the road today but the plans fell through.

Instead I went to see Whitehill Welfare play Tynecastle FC.

The visiting coach was this chap, who was sent to the stand after disputing a Whitehill penalty:

Strangely enough, in random conversation in the Social Club tonight about the kind of factors which affect and in reality DON'T affect a football club, I quoted the instance of David Bingham leaving "to be nearer his family" (at Gretna - who?) prompting an outbreak of "we're a' doomed!"

The news of the world team of the day have Esson, shinnie and hayes.... oh n dougie too.....

p!sh poor but happy with 1 point and to be in 4th place

However I am gutted that I missed the goal :irritated:

p!sh poor but happy with 1 point and to be in 4th place

However I am gutted that I missed the goal :irritated:

Our great run last season included some excellent performances, but crucially included several games where we learnt the art of not losing when playing poorly. In that sense, a point yesterday was a great outcome because far too many players were lacklustre with St Johnstone looking the best side - they put far more pressure on us when we had possession and where more inventive when they had possession. It really is important that we pick up points even when playing poorly. We are also up to 4th which is fantastic - 7 places higher than I would be happy with at the end of the season.

But a big downside for me was Foran. He was generally lacklustre and only showed a bit of passion later in the game when he was pushed forward. As a captain, I saw nothing from him in encouraging the team - quite the reverse in fact. When the ball didn't break the way he might have wished he just seemed to curse his luck and give up rather than getting back into position. And later in the game a long crossfield ball was played to the excellent Shinnie who, under pressure, kept the ball in and put a firm pass to Foran who was unable to control it. Foran's reaction was to shout "what the f*ck was that" at Shinnie. He kept abusing the youngster as Shinnie shrugged and then ran back into position, meanwhile Foran was paying no attention to where the ball was. As a captain he should be encouraging the youngsters and Shinnie was actually showing a lot more enterprise and passion than Foran. Shinnie's pass was no worse than most of what Foran had contributed in the match. Foran was well out of order. I hope Terry will be letting him know in no uncertain terms what is expected of him both as a player and a captain because IMHO he fell well short on both counts yesterday.

Our great run last season included some excellent performances, but crucially included several games where we learnt the art of not losing when playing poorly. In that sense, a point yesterday was a great outcome because far too many players were lacklustre with St Johnstone looking the best side - they put far more pressure on us when we had possession and where more inventive when they had possession. It really is important that we pick up points even when playing poorly. We are also up to 4th which is fantastic - 7 places higher than I would be happy with at the end of the season.

But a big downside for me was Foran. He was generally lacklustre and only showed a bit of passion later in the game when he was pushed forward. As a captain, I saw nothing from him in encouraging the team - quite the reverse in fact. When the ball didn't break the way he might have wished he just seemed to curse his luck and give up rather than getting back into position. And later in the game a long crossfield ball was played to the excellent Shinnie who, under pressure, kept the ball in and put a firm pass to Foran who was unable to control it. Foran's reaction was to shout "what the f*ck was that" at Shinnie. He kept abusing the youngster as Shinnie shrugged and then ran back into position, meanwhile Foran was paying no attention to where the ball was. As a captain he should be encouraging the youngsters and Shinnie was actually showing a lot more enterprise and passion than Foran. Shinnie's pass was no worse than most of what Foran had contributed in the match. Foran was well out of order. I hope Terry will be letting him know in no uncertain terms what is expected of him both as a player and a captain because IMHO he fell well short on both counts yesterday.

spot on, was glad of a point, our first half performance was very sloppy, hopefully it was only down to our two week break from football

Forans natural position is striker and secondly a left sided midfielder. not a holding midfielder, he should be played in an attacking role and not a defensive one. completely wasted in a defensive role.

But a big downside for me was Foran. He was generally lacklustre and only showed a bit of passion later in the game when he was pushed forward. As a captain, I saw nothing from him in encouraging the team - quite the reverse in fact. When the ball didn't break the way he might have wished he just seemed to curse his luck and give up rather than getting back into position. And later in the game a long crossfield ball was played to the excellent Shinnie who, under pressure, kept the ball in and put a firm pass to Foran who was unable to control it. Foran's reaction was to shout "what the f*ck was that" at Shinnie. He kept abusing the youngster as Shinnie shrugged and then ran back into position, meanwhile Foran was paying no attention to where the ball was. As a captain he should be encouraging the youngsters and Shinnie was actually showing a lot more enterprise and passion than Foran. Shinnie's pass was no worse than most of what Foran had contributed in the match. Foran was well out of order. I hope Terry will be letting him know in no uncertain terms what is expected of him both as a player and a captain because IMHO he fell well short on both counts yesterday.

I have to agree with you DoofersDad and it pains me to do so as I am a big Foran fan. I don't know what was wrong with him yesterday...

Butcher always seems to be harshest on Russell

When he first came in he signed Brian Kerr and used him with Ian Black, the start of last season he used Lee Cox and Daniel Stratford. And at the start of this season Stuart Duff goes straight into the team and plays along side Cox.

And yesterday despite being on the back of a great win over Aberdeen Butcher sticks in an unfit and match lacking Kevin McCann for Russell and sure as your born we struggle.

One statistic this season that i think should be noted is that every game we have won this season we have won with Duncan starting.

Butcher certainly got his review of the game right, RUBBISH! We need to win these games to make ourselves safe as early as possible yet the team didn't turn up for 65 mins! Why change a winning team? Made no sense at all.

Thought we were on for total beasting yesterday, and against better opposition we'd have been out of the game within 30 minutes.

Even in the second half it seemed to take us a bit of time to put the breaks on St Johnstone before slowly turning the tide and managing to leverage some pressure in the opposite direction.

DoofersDad mentioned "the art of playing poorly and not losing", I'm not so sure as even that requires a semi competent defensive performance.

IMO, we didn't turn up for the first hour of the game and when we did we finally show we played a Get Out of Jail Free card. The second half performance was better, but far from acceptable. I can accept playing poor and getting nothing from a game if players are giving their all, but too many of them looked disinterested and just not up for it yesterday.

I do think we missed Duncan on there from the start, but that was not the soul cause of our problems. Hopefully just a blip and Butcher manages to weed out the cause to prevent it happening again.

butcher says he can't understand the performance compered to the last two games, maybe it was the team he selected. totally outplayed first half and start of second, and more concerning out muscled so easily by a big physical st johnstone team. each throwin we had from left side, shinnie only ever had odiambo and ross to hit. both too light weight and i cant remember anything other than st j winning the ball. we would have been better just giving them the throw.

cant see what butcher see's in macann, cant tackle and always seems to slip on his ass when turning.

foran wasted in centre midfield and was much more affective when he was played towards the end wide left getting on the end of crosses to head into danger area as he did all last season. far more solid when macann taken off and duff went to right back giving us the platform to go forward. we also need a midfielder to take the ball from grant munro. we need to keep the ball better but all his howitser passes that sail over everyones head to go out for a bye or throwin are just conceding posession.

happy with a point from such a poor display

We played very poorly in the first half, reduced to constant long balls that were eaten up by Michael Duberry. St Johnstone looked sharp in their play, reducing our defence to total confusion at times. Kevin McCann had a shaky game overall and was awful in the first half. The goal was an absolute joke, a simple diagonal ball that Tokely left for McCann who left it for Esson who hadn't shouted so was caught out. A ball like that should be cleared at first opportunity, Tokely needs to have a look at himself. Parkin really should have doubled the Saints lead when he was put through again.

We improved a bit in the second half, mainly because we stopped hitting the ball long to Rooney and tried to vary our attacks a bit more. Even so, St Johnstone had another brilliant chance when Liam Criag scooped over. Perhaps our more industrious second half performance deserved a point but we were lucky to draw that.

I don't understand why Butcher changed that team - we played well, scored four goals and conceded one (a wonder goal) in our previous matches with the same team but he altered it. Obviously Butcher fancies McCann as our first choice right-back but Duff has slotted in well there and Duncan brings a lot of balance to the middle fo the park. Playing Foran deeper might work but he's so much more valuable up front, with his power and aerial prowess. At the back we looked disorganised and lacking - in the first half we were continually caught off the pace and outwitted by St Johnstone. Perhaps we need the experience of Chris Innes to steady the ship, but he is still out injured. On a positive side we came back well and could even have stolen it at the end and Hayes took his goal well.

I thought St Johnstone looked a good side, they reminded me a bit of our first few seasons in the SPL - they are solid defensively, have some enterprising players and were capable of playing some good football. I hope we're still three points ahead of them at the end of the season.

Pretty much agree with everything that has been said and this was a bit like the Hamilton game. St Johnstone did what hamilton did to us, stopped us playing/going forward by constant fouling and both teams found a referee who would let them get away with this. How Duff and haynes got booked while Jody Morris got away with trying to slice Hayes in two, I do not know. Yet another poor refereeing display and I think we should have had a penalty as well.We got what we deserved however and no more.

I have said this for many years now but I really think some of our players need to get a bit more srteetwise and start sussing out what the referee will let them get away with. St Johnstone sussed out that the ref was weak and just fouled our player when there was any danger. We really do need to wise up at times.

I have already green dotted him, but I want to add again my agreement to what Doofer's Dad said about Foran. He showed a bad lapse of judgement in shouting at Shinnie - a young professional who is on a steep learning curve and needs positive strokes not mindless haranguing. Let's hope that kind of aimless bullying does not become a feature of Foran's leadership style.