Think this will be deserving of its own thread as details emerge of the sheer state of our finances ... but let me start controversially by saying THANK YOU to Ketan Makwana !

The utter nonsense of your 'takeover' bid, the corporate phygital gobbledygook coming out of your mouth or your linked in page, and your history at companies house woke up some of our giants of the past in Messrs. McGilvray, Sutherland and Savage. You were the straw that broke the camel's back, the final grand scheme that saw all of our CEO's cards collapse, that one domino that started the progression that will surely see more dominoes fall. I want you nowhere near our club, but you can take heart that even without buying the club with imaginary money, you may well have played a part in saving it. Clearly the reality of our situation is far worse than even the most cynical fan expected now that we have had some straight talking from Alan Savage and it all started with the idea that 77Ventures were random new owners overnight just a few weeks ago.     

But onto the main focus of this thread - the money, or more specifically the lack of it or of any oversight on that front. 

AS went in just 3 days ago and in that time he has discovered that we are not £300K adrift, that quickly ballooned to £450K then £700K and now closer to £900K. We don't have new strips FOR THE TEAM let alone the fans, because we have not paid the bills, and we apparently have a pre-order for £120K of strips sitting with Puma as part of that £900K. Given that the average cost of a strip is around £50 retail that's 2400 strips, but profits on these are decent so do we really have upwards of 3-4000 new strips waiting to be sold once we pay for them wholesale first? Not having strips for the start of the season is right up there with not having seats for the Tynecastle stands and having twice as many as we get at the stadium on a good crowd day, sitting in a container somewhere is as ludicrous as it sounds.  

I am sure AS will discover all sorts of 'anomalies', unexplained or lets say 'less than optimal' spending as he goes through the accounts with a fine-tooth comb, but my ire on that one is directed back at the board. How in f*** was there no oversight on this. SG did what SG was there to do. To operate as the CEO of ICTFC. The fact he seemingly did that without a shred of governance is not his fault. His performance and ability to do it correctly and economically should have been something benchmarked on a regular basis by the board. Did he have no performance reviews since 2019? If not, why not? Thats not a failing of SG, that's a failing of the board.  

Red flags have been around for a while. I recall the comment about Ryan Christie buying footballs for the youth team and I think that's what Charlie is referring to in today's article in the Courier which is well worth a read. The last three days with Alan Savage and now acting CEO Charlie Christie have seen more public communication from the club in 3 days than we have experienced in the last 5 years since the former CEO was put in post. https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/this-club-for-far-too-long-has-been-losing-too-much-money-358498/

A few great bullets raised by Charlie: 

• He is confident that working alongside Savage, it will lead to the club having a brighter future.
• The staff get frustrated too and a lot of that has been from resources.
• He, as academy manager, has had to do without things that were needed.
• The mood at the club has been great since Alan came in. Some of the staff don’t know him. He is fair, but demanding - and very professional..
• He will want a paper trail for everything, as there should be.
• He will want more corporate governance in his time at the club and I don’t think that's much to ask. It is good for any business to have that. That’s what he’ll bring.
• We’re all delighted because we feel it is a step in the right direction.
• Watching the ill-feeling towards individuals at the end of last season, it is not good for Caley Thistle. It is something I’ve never seen. Fans have a go at managers, myself included, after poor performances. That goes with the territory. But not what we witnessed last year at times. Hopefully that’s dead in the water now and we can move on.

I like the comments I have heard that some creditors are already paid, and the things Charlie mentions in that article. I especially like the comment that the mood at the club has improved. there are many hard-working and crucial folks down there doing thankless tasks who do not need to be micro managed and for them to finally be able to exhale and maybe show what they are capable of is a relief. We do have to get back to basics, we do have to stop all the pie-in-the-sky bullshit and the loss of money hand-over-fist. We do have to put football first and try to get out of this league and back up to the Championship and hopefully over time, the Premiership. One step at a time, one obstacle at a time, and all in a sustainable or responsible manner. 

With Charlie and Alan Savage at the helm now, I think this is a good start to the process but let's not stop looking inwards. The CEO was allowed to do what he did for many years, and those who allowed that, or didn't bother to look at what he was doing also need to take accountability for that. 

Spot on. The Club need to know there are a lot of professional and experienced people who support the club - in recent months we realised what it truly meant to us -would be able to help in some small way given the magnitude of what exists (so far). We can but hope DF and GB now feel they have to put something back themselves.

2 hours ago, Scotty said:

Think this will be deserving of its own thread as details emerge of the sheer state of our finances ... but let me start controversially by saying THANK YOU to Ketan Makwana !

The utter nonsense of your 'takeover' bid, the corporate phygital gobbledygook coming out of your mouth or your linked in page, and your history at companies house woke up some of our giants of the past in Messrs. McGilvray, Sutherland and Savage. You were the straw that broke the camel's back, the final grand scheme that saw all of our CEO's cards collapse, that one domino that started the progression that will surely see more dominoes fall. I want you nowhere near our club, but you can take heart that even without buying the club with imaginary money, you may well have played a part in saving it. Clearly the reality of our situation is far worse than even the most cynical fan expected now that we have had some straight talking from Alan Savage and it all started with the idea that 77Ventures were random new owners overnight just a few weeks ago.     

But onto the main focus of this thread - the money, or more specifically the lack of it or of any oversight on that front. 

AS went in just 3 days ago and in that time he has discovered that we are not £300K adrift, that quickly ballooned to £450K then £700K and now closer to £900K. We don't have new strips FOR THE TEAM let alone the fans, because we have not paid the bills, and we apparently have a pre-order for £120K of strips sitting with Puma as part of that £900K. Given that the average cost of a strip is around £50 retail that's 2400 strips, but profits on these are decent so do we really have upwards of 3-4000 new strips waiting to be sold once we pay for them wholesale first? Not having strips for the start of the season is right up there with not having seats for the Tynecastle stands and having twice as many as we get at the stadium on a good crowd day, sitting in a container somewhere is as ludicrous as it sounds.  

I am sure AS will discover all sorts of 'anomalies', unexplained or lets say 'less than optimal' spending as he goes through the accounts with a fine-tooth comb, but my ire on that one is directed back at the board. How in f*** was there no oversight on this. SG did what SG was there to do. To operate as the CEO of ICTFC. The fact he seemingly did that without a shred of governance is not his fault. His performance and ability to do it correctly and economically should have been something benchmarked on a regular basis by the board. Did he have no performance reviews since 2019? If not, why not? Thats not a failing of SG, that's a failing of the board.  

Red flags have been around for a while. I recall the comment about Ryan Christie buying footballs for the youth team and I think that's what Charlie is referring to in today's article in the Courier which is well worth a read. The last three days with Alan Savage and now acting CEO Charlie Christie have seen more public communication from the club in 3 days than we have experienced in the last 5 years since the former CEO was put in post. https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/this-club-for-far-too-long-has-been-losing-too-much-money-358498/

A few great bullets raised by Charlie: 

• He is confident that working alongside Savage, it will lead to the club having a brighter future.
• The staff get frustrated too and a lot of that has been from resources.
• He, as academy manager, has had to do without things that were needed.
• The mood at the club has been great since Alan came in. Some of the staff don’t know him. He is fair, but demanding - and very professional..
• He will want a paper trail for everything, as there should be.
• He will want more corporate governance in his time at the club and I don’t think that's much to ask. It is good for any business to have that. That’s what he’ll bring.
• We’re all delighted because we feel it is a step in the right direction.
• Watching the ill-feeling towards individuals at the end of last season, it is not good for Caley Thistle. It is something I’ve never seen. Fans have a go at managers, myself included, after poor performances. That goes with the territory. But not what we witnessed last year at times. Hopefully that’s dead in the water now and we can move on.

I like the comments I have heard that some creditors are already paid, and the things Charlie mentions in that article. I especially like the comment that the mood at the club has improved. there are many hard-working and crucial folks down there doing thankless tasks who do not need to be micro managed and for them to finally be able to exhale and maybe show what they are capable of is a relief. We do have to get back to basics, we do have to stop all the pie-in-the-sky bullshit and the loss of money hand-over-fist. We do have to put football first and try to get out of this league and back up to the Championship and hopefully over time, the Premiership. One step at a time, one obstacle at a time, and all in a sustainable or responsible manner. 

With Charlie and Alan Savage at the helm now, I think this is a good start to the process but let's not stop looking inwards. The CEO was allowed to do what he did for many years, and those who allowed that, or didn't bother to look at what he was doing also need to take accountability for that. 

One nagging concern that I have is that, since this Forensic Audit has been uncovering Black Holes of constantly increasing magnitude, it may ultimately stumble across something so large that it may not be possible to deal with it. We just need to hope not.

As for the apparently very large number of strips - might it not be possible to contact the person within Puma through whom the order was made and come to some constructive arrangement?🤔🤔

17 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

might it not be possible to contact the person within Puma through whom the order was made and come to some constructive arrangement?

I think given the amount of bridges that Gardiner's burnt, we'll be on our hands and knees crawling back to Errea before Puma will conduct business with us again (not that I care, Errea kits were far better quality anyway).

If we have indeed overordered kits, I guess we will be retaining this kit for however many seasons it takes to shift them!

If we have to take the large order of strips, then couldn't we find some clever strategies for shifting them. I don't know what the mark up is on a football top but if we were able to see regular offers on items such as Buy One Get One Half Price - say a home and an away top, giving away a free scarf with each top purchased, spend £50 quid and get £5 off, £100 quid and get a tenner off etc. If these offers were for one week only, or for first 50 customers, then people would have to commit that week if they wanted it and it would get people into the shop (where they might spend more money).

A pop up shop (manned by ST volunteers perhaps) in town or up at big Tesco is another idea with Christmas coming.

Wouldn't it be great to see people all over town with ICT shirts on like in 2015.

If it does transpire that there is a huge excess of shirts then it may be financially prudent to burn what we don't sell this season.

How long is left on the ILI sponsorship?  Let's not forget that they have played the club and play a part in where we are now.  They were behind the battery farm and use of the carparks for the red john hydro planning was instrumental in getting it accepted so they could then sell it.

2 hours ago, STFU said:

If it does transpire that there is a huge excess of shirts then it may be financially prudent to burn what we don't sell this season.

How long is left on the ILI sponsorship?  Let's not forget that they have played the club and play a part in where we are now.  They were behind the battery farm and use of the carparks for the red john hydro planning was instrumental in getting it accepted so they could then sell it.

Another feature of what’s happened this week is that ICT can return to being a football club as opposed to some kind of vehicle for land speculation.

30 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Another feature of what’s happened this week is that ICT can return to being a football club as opposed to some kind of vehicle for land speculation.

Aye, until the next sale deal. I struggle to see how any new owner could make a return on their investment without land related developments.

2 hours ago, STFU said:

If it does transpire that there is a huge excess of shirts then it may be financially prudent to burn what we don't sell this season.

I see where you are coming from, but personally I don't tend to look at the sponsor, more the club badge when looking at shirts on people in the street. 

If they proved to be very unpopular they could be donated to charity for use in countries where the logo is the least of their worries.

12 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

Aye, until the next sale deal. I struggle to see how any new owner could make a return on their investment without land related developments.

Developing land around the stadium isn't a bad idea it just needs to be done separately from running the club and not spending any income until it arrives in the bank.

5 minutes ago, CaleyHedgehog said:

I see where you are coming from, but personally I don't tend to look at the sponsor, more the club badge when looking at shirts on people in the street. 

If they proved to be very unpopular they could be donated to charity for use in countries where the logo is the least of their worries.

I didn't mean literally burn them more that trying to punt them on the cheap might be false economy and a kick in the teeth to everyone who's pre ordered at full price.

At least there should be no excuse for player sponsors not getting a shirt at the end of the season.

Everywhere I went in Africa, people were wearing Barcelona shirts they got for free (they proudly displayed their UNESCO logo). Maybe we couldn't flood the market like that but possibly target a city in Africa or Asia to give them away in the hope of setting up an enclave that could be used with a partner / feeder club?

On 8/17/2024 at 2:16 PM, Starscape said:

Everywhere I went in Africa, people were wearing Barcelona shirts they got for free (they proudly displayed their UNESCO logo). Maybe we couldn't flood the market like that but possibly target a city in Africa or Asia to give them away in the hope of setting up an enclave that could be used with a partner / feeder club?

Use Pele Paterson's links to Japan and flood Tokyo's market.

I wonder how far this forensic audit is going. Rough calculation is there are about 12 players all needing accommodation here in Inverness or the surrounding are. ( maybe more or less), but around that figure. What happened after the Kelty deal fell through was that we were promised local players and home grown youth being given their chance to cut cost and build on the academy system !!!!! What’s happened to all that ????? Seems like DF just repeating the same loan mistakes as last season. Look where that got us !

6 minutes ago, CaleyCiuin said:

I wonder how far this forensic audit is going. Rough calculation is there are about 12 players all needing accommodation here in Inverness or the surrounding are.

I guess that there may well be two aspects to it.

One will be looking at current finances - income and expenditure at the moment - and I would expect that to include things like accommodation costs.

The other aspect will be historic - what happened to the money in the past, where did it go, and who knew what?  I suspect that it might be quite a while before we hear about the outcomes of that, because at the very least there will be lawyers involved, and beyond that there could be the involvement of inspector Knacker.

If we are so skint as a club, how have we afforded to sign 7 players since the start of the season?  Not all of those are under the AS regime to be fair, but aren’t we meant to be living within our means in league1. His means right enuff! Bit nonetheless! 

Charlie Christie returning to his regular Courier article had this to say -

"In my role as interim chief executive these past few weeks I have realised that the model the club has been running for quite some time is simply not sustainable – and certainly not in Scottish League One.

The drop-off in SPFL league fees alone has been eye-opening and again displays the huge disparity between each level in our game north of the border.

Some of the decision making at the club in recent seasons has certainly added to the difficulties we currently find ourselves in and, whilst most people associated with the club recognise the need for new and innovative revenue sources, I cannot understand the spending of large sums of money before any of this revenue has come to fruition.

That is not how well-run football clubs conduct their business and is not how ICT should be run going forward if we are to prosper once again."

With both Christie and Savage being so critical of the decision making in recent seasons, it is a little difficult to understand why so many of the Board who were responsible for making those decisions are still there.

8 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Charlie Christie returning to his regular Courier article had this to say -

"In my role as interim chief executive these past few weeks I have realised that the model the club has been running for quite some time is simply not sustainable – and certainly not in Scottish League One.

The drop-off in SPFL league fees alone has been eye-opening and again displays the huge disparity between each level in our game north of the border.

Some of the decision making at the club in recent seasons has certainly added to the difficulties we currently find ourselves in and, whilst most people associated with the club recognise the need for new and innovative revenue sources, I cannot understand the spending of large sums of money before any of this revenue has come to fruition.

That is not how well-run football clubs conduct their business and is not how ICT should be run going forward if we are to prosper once again."

With both Christie and Savage being so critical of the decision making in recent seasons, it is a little difficult to understand why so many of the Board who were responsible for making those decisions are still there.

Totally agree…….. they are culpable for our situation! 

I think a face to face encounter between the Board/Alan Savage and the shareholders, and probably the wider fan base as well, is now needed fairly urgently.

The AGM is now two months overdue and, while I appreciate that they’ve been busy with other things, I think it now needs to be held - but should be followed quickly by an open meeting for fans.

I think that the least the Board must answer to is having failed to monitor, oversee and restrain Scot Gardiner but I also think that, as the body ultimately responsible for running the club, they must also be called on to explain how ICTFC has, over a period of years, got into the most unimaginable mess.

However I also appreciate that the immediate past Chairman no longer holds any position in the club but he should possibly be given an invitation to attend.

Edited September 29, 2024Sep 29 by Charles Bannerman

17 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

However I also appreciate that the immediate past Chairman no longer holds any position in the club but he should possibly be given an invitation to attend.

Presumably he is either already a shareholder, or converted some of the monies owed to him into shares so would be entitled to attend? Whether he does or not is another question. 

Semantics aside - I agree with you, a meeting is long overdue. We need answers on a lot of things, not least the free reign our former CEO seems to have had, the treatment of players over the last few years... (for me, I still can't get past how a so-called respected surgeon allegedly tells a player to walk-off an ACL injury), who was supposed to be deploying some governance, who was responsible for communications and why this was non-existent. and who feels they are morally in a position where they can argue their position is not untenable after the last few years of mismanagement.  

 

11 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Presumably he is either already a shareholder, or converted some of the monies owed to him into shares so would be entitled to attend? Whether he does or not is another question. 

Semantics aside - I agree with you, a meeting is long overdue. We need answers on a lot of things, not least the free reign our former CEO seems to have had, the treatment of players over the last few years... (for me, I still can't get past how a so-called respected surgeon allegedly tells a player to walk-off an ACL injury), who was supposed to be deploying some governance, who was responsible for communications and why this was non-existent. and who feels they are morally in a position where they can argue their position is not untenable after the last few years of mismanagement.  

 

I agree with all of your points above. I would also like to know why there was a severe lack of engagement with players and staff after relegation over the summer. Who between management, ceo and board thought it was ok to say nothing and let players contracts run out without so much as a word from the club. Shameful negligence, unprofessional behaviour. 

On 9/28/2024 at 10:03 PM, DoofersDad said:

Charlie Christie returning to his regular Courier article had this to say -

"In my role as interim chief executive these past few weeks I have realised that the model the club has been running for quite some time is simply not sustainable – and certainly not in Scottish League One.

The drop-off in SPFL league fees alone has been eye-opening and again displays the huge disparity between each level in our game north of the border.

Some of the decision making at the club in recent seasons has certainly added to the difficulties we currently find ourselves in and, whilst most people associated with the club recognise the need for new and innovative revenue sources, I cannot understand the spending of large sums of money before any of this revenue has come to fruition.

That is not how well-run football clubs conduct their business and is not how ICT should be run going forward if we are to prosper once again."

With both Christie and Savage being so critical of the decision making in recent seasons, it is a little difficult to understand why so many of the Board who were responsible for making those decisions are still there.

Hmm, I find it interesting that after some 30 plus years at ICT and having seen ‘of’ umpteen  Chairmen, CEO’s and Board members decisions, actions and wheeling/dealing over the period Charlie, (now as interim CEO), is now finding to his astonishment and amazement, a lot of these people he had easy access and dealings with, were / are incompetent, fiscally irresponsible with self interest their prime drive! 

Fully understand of course he wasn’t in any position to query any such action over this period to wave any flags!!!!!

 

Edited September 30, 2024Sep 30 by big cherly

An interesting perspective Cherly, a bit like Labour’s £22 billion black hole they knew nothing about!

I’d like to give Charlie the benefit of any doubt though, as the last few years seems to have been completely off the wall and shrouded in mystery by the scheming and controlling of Gardiner. I imagine, like the rest of us, that Charlie was fooled and trusted those who should have been carrying out the required and necessary due diligence.

There are still a number of personalities involved with the running of the club that need to explain themselves, and still plenty miles yet to go on this unpleasant journey, but I do trust Charlie and Alan Savage to sort it all out for the benefit of the club and supporters rather than for themselves.

Part time next season beckons I'd say. 

Wow, scary as look how poor and boring the product is with us at full time. 

1 hour ago, Duke of Inverness said:

Part time next season beckons I'd say. 

Wow, scary as look how poor and boring the product is with us at full time. 

Tbf a hybrid level works for some at this level? Time will tell