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I really doubt that. All the new fans who supported the merged team would have probably supported any league team in Inverness. So I think the crowds would be similar to what they are now.

How will a straw poll, with guesses for answers, and a handful of replies, 'settle' anything? Just wondering.... BTW I believe it was 'settled' about 15 years ago

You mean Doddy died? Did he? No, Doddy!

Had Caley gone it alone I'd still be a Thistle fan. Personally, I believe the merger had to happen. Had it not then the team that was accepted into the league would now be playing lower league football. They may have had a brush with div 1 but that would be it. The fanbase may have been in the couple of thousand bracket. Who knows. But the main reason they'd never have reached the hieghts of now is not the support of the fans but the support of the council and of the money men. The local authority could not provide the support they did if only one of the three main teams went ahead. A number of our regular sponsors supported one or other of the two teams. Those funds would have been split. I dont even believe our biggest investor would have put so much in had the merger not have happened. Those who refuse to support the new team are to be admired for their loyalty to the cause but would they have supported their own team if it had gone alone. I know three persons who, although they took part in the debates and votes of 93, were Celtic ST holders then and still are now. One of those three does grace the TCS now and again because his son wants to go. But only on days when ICT are home and Celtic away.

I really doubt that. All the new fans who supported the merged team would have probably supported any league team in Inverness. So I think the crowds would be similar to what they are now. I agree Joe.....FACT....in the 50s and 60s, Caley were regularily playing to crowds as big...if not bigger than what they average now, when they were in the Highland League. Dont belive me....go get yourself a copy of Rod Clynes book, In A Different League....its all in there. I see no evidence to suggest that Caley on their own would have been less of a draw than ICT....if anything...i think they could have had a bigger, more loyal fanbase! I think that it would be similar to just now but not bigger. I doubt there is anyone who would support Caledonian as a league team but not ICT if they had no alleigances before. All the new fans and youngsters would have supported the league team of Inverness no matter who they were. I don't think you can compare things to the 1950's or 60's though as every team had much bigger crowds back then but it has no relevance on what they get today. Teams like Hibs were able to get 50,000 back then and as with the rest of the country these attendance for Caledonian did not last so you can't really cite the 50's and 60's as evidence for big crowds and not more up to date attendances Caledonian got in the 90's.

OOOOPPPPPSSSSS

I take it you mean "support" and that's a wee typo but the answer is still "Yes" - you unfortunately were a lot smaller. That was actually one of the problems which meant that Thistle was a severely weakened entity when the merger came around - lack of money, including gate receipts. Another case in point was the September 9th 1993 votes. Caley went for the merger 55-50. At the Jags meeting it was 33-12 so less than half the attendance. On the other hand Jags were at a fundamental disadvantage since only MEN were allowed to go to their meetings! Let me give you this anecdote. I wasn't in the original Caley meeting since I only joined afterwards (OK, it was in order to get into meetings for reporting purposes!). But I did doorstep their original one in the Muirtrown. As the season ticketholders came down the stairs afterwards, somebody called out "Jags have gone for it by three to one!" The response from one wag was instant. "Christ! There weren't as many as four at the Jags meeting were there?" :biggrin: All this proves to me anyway that you ain't the dye in the wool Caley man you make yourself out to be dougal Don't say that, there are certain people who will now start trying to get that vote overturned! As far as I am aware, Caledonian FC never changed its constitution on the basis of the merger and is still, for instance, constitutionally bound to have a registered office in Telford Street!!! :biggrin: (Unless in the very dying days when all 576 Season Tickets had expired and only the Life Members were left, they quietly sorted things.) OCG.... get a hold of my book. All is explained there! All is explained by a very Pro-merger author with very pro-merger views which no doubt suited the club at the time of publication While i'm not slating the content of "Against all odds" I prefer to hear views from both merger camps not just the one, that way I can make my own mind up dougal

Don't say that, there are certain people who will now start trying to get that vote overturned!

At least we'll be in the semi-final draw.

I have a bad feeling about this one. 2-0 snow.

Were we really a much smaller report charles? i remember many games at Kingsmills where there was an abundance of jags fans and remember a fair few at telford St where the Howden end was far from full and the canal end was abundant in red and black fans. The original question however about refuseniks makes me think of at least two jags fans who have never watched ICT play and never will (Their loss) no matter how much i try to persuade them? I personally decided away back in 73? or whenever we lost out to Ferranti Thistle later to become Meadowbank later to become livingstone that i would support any inverness team to join the scottish league, Inverness utd or whatever it was decided to be called. We have to see the bigger picture and those that have decided with their small/narrow mindedness not to support a merged team have lost out on a wonderful journey, from beating arbroath in our first league game with Herchy's hat trick to the famous celtic game and the awful game where county humped us. It's been a fantastic journey which many of us could never have imagined back in those days and it's far from finished. This wonderful voyage goes on and on, up and down and hopefully for many many years our children and their children can enjoy the the magic of ICT

here's a wee bit of fact for you... When ICT beat Celtic at parkhead 3-1, Aberdeen drew 1-1 in the same round with St Mirren, after being 0-0 at half time, and 1-0 down for a short period. The original fixture between us was postponed... Now, Aberdeen have today drawn 1-1 with St Mirren, after the score was 0-0 at half time and St Mirren winning 1-0 for a short period. Judging by the weather, our fixture could well repeat itself (although it'll be for an unplayable pitch rather than a broken stadium). History seems to be repeating itself. The omen's are on our side people... (William Hill has ICT down as 13/2 for the win, 18/1 to repeat 2003, and 66/1 for a 3-1 victory)

Dougal you are wrong. I still see a lot of fans now that I knew then around the TCS. charles is right in that a lot have now died and at first I think a lot did stay away but eventually a lot drifted back. I voted for option one in the poll as I dont think there are many of the diehard refuseniks left. My brother and his mate are part of this group and there are a few guys that post on pie and bovril but I think a lot just moved on. I dont really think a lot of folk care about old history anymore. My kids certainly dont. Personally I just like the fact that the Caley name is still alive and well and remember the HL days as being fun but I was very young them. I dont think that Caley would have achieved as much on their own personally as ICT have.

It was quite interesting to deabte this one the first four or five... or even six!... times it popped up on this forum. But it's now got quite tedious and I'm not even going to dignify the question with a vote on the poll. But let's look at it this way. After the Howden End and a lot further afield was trawled again and again and again for Caley "anti" sentiment for the 1st December 1993 Rose Street vote, 226 people voted against the merger. This is the biggest anti merger vote that there ever was. We also know that a great number of that 226 subsequently became regular attenders. But let's be conservative and say that half the "NO" voters didn't attend matches. That's 113 and if you make a very generous addition of 87 from the much smaller Thistle support, that get's you to what I suspect is a vastly over generous 200 refuseniks compared with the 1500 or so fans which was the average gate in the early days. 17 years on, a significant proportion of that generous 200 are either dead or have left the area. There MAY be 100 left which out of a core home support of about 3000 is a VERY small price to pay for the formation of a club which represents the whole of Inverness. Had Caley gone alone, I don't think the support would have been anything like as large and the financial backing from the Council and the community and business certainly wouldn't have been.

Most of the "ample opportunities" he got in the first team, were from coming off the bench - very often, with only a few minutes of a game remaining. Also, for some reason, a sizeable element of our support just never took to him and subjected him to all manner of unnecessary abuse. That for me, was what hastened his departure. He's certainly come on leaps and bounds since joining Brechin, but whether he would be able to cut it at ICT, I doubt if we'll ever know. It's very unlikely he'd want to come back here again.

Watched him deliver numerous top performances and bag plenty of goals for the reserves, but despite the ample opportunity he got in the first team he rarely managed to emulate it. Glad to see him doing well, but saw nothing from him while he was here to suggest he can cut it at SPL level and wouldn't be in any hurry to have him tying up a wage here again.

One of my happiest memories of the 69-70 season was Caley in their striped strip as they beat Ross County 5-0 in the Scottish at Telford Street. Two goals apiece from the late Sandy Finnie and the great Freddie Nield, with Davy Johnston getting the other.

I'll give you some advice..................free of charge. Take yer ski's and an ice pick.

Ok Charles or should that be Eric http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83B3Laghlkg How exactly do you know that a great number of that 226 became regulars?That is quite frankly a ridiculous statement on your part!! If my source is correct the highest ever recorded YES vote was allegedly 250 and a large amount of these people had probably never set foot in Telford St in their entire life but no doubt you will attempt to correct me if i'm wrong I firmly believe that a generation of Caledonian fans have turned their back on ICT with maybe a handful only becoming regulars, Mantis being one of that few and I salute him for that dougal Sorry Doofers dad i'm afraid you are very wrong, I couldn't care one hoot about the stupid green dot/red dot farce I personally would like to see it binned however it probably keeps the ICT boo boys/keyboard warriors happy dougal

i would love to see bolton pick up the cup this season owen coyles a quality guy