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There's a lot of discussion on different threads around much the same theme and it is really summarised by discussion about how to get more people into the grounds. Yesterday's crowd was a bit disappointing although it was not surprising given the fact that it was televised. What I think is of far more significance is that only 17,822 turned up at Ibrox today. OK so this was being televised as well but more ICT fans went to the game yesterday than for a normal league match whilst substantially less than half those who support Rangers in the league turned up today - this on a day when Rangers desparately needed the support of their fans. Whilst this (and the result!) certainly illustrate the level of problems Rangers are now facing, it also illustrates a more general problem in the game which the fans are the victims of and can do little about. It is, of course all about money. The reason why the the gate at Ibrox was so low today is that most who watch them week in and week out are season ticket holders and many of them will have felt that they simply couldn't afford to pay extra to watch a cup game. In other words the financing of the game is driving the fans away. It has long stopped being the people's game and is now the preserve of the middle classes. There is a lot of money in the game but it doesn't get to where it is needed. The top players get far too much money as a result of an unholy alliance with the agents, football authorities, TV companies, sponsors and the clubs which pander to short term finances rather than the long term interests of the game. The agents want the players to be paid as much as possible so that their percentage is as big as possible. The TV companies want to maximise their income from subscribers and advertisers and therefore have to show matches and players that the TV audience wants to watch. In the hope that they can get a decent share of TV revenues, clubs have to invest in the best players they can afford if they are to offer a product the TV companies will buy; this means they have to get as much revenue as they can through the turnstiles. The sponsors and advertisers want a return on their money so will pay the big money when they are guaranteed big audiences, And the authorities go along with this because they want their leagues to attract the best players and the TV money. This means that whilst a lot of money comes into the game, it is not shared in a way which benefits the long term interests of the game. Instead it goes disproportionately to the best players rather than to the clubs further down the pecking order who are nurturing the stars of the future. It even gets to the ludicrous position where some of the top clubs have far more players than they really need but they hang on to them, paying them fabulous wages for not playing on the basis that it is worth paying them not to play rather than having them playing for another team and making it more difficult to maintain a position amongst the elite who get the lions share of the TV and sponsorship money. This means that there are less quality players around for the teams in the lower reaches of the game with the net result that the customer coming through the turnstiles pays more to watch a poorer product whilst there is more top quality product available to watch on TV. The suprising thing is not that attendances have dropped, it is that they have not dropped by more. As long as market forces dictate, we will increasingly have a situation where a bigger and bigger share of the income from the game is shared out by the top players. What we need is international collaboration to cap the wages merry-go-round so that more money is fed back to the grass roots of the game so that smaller clubs can keep the better players and so that admission charges can be reduced to bring the fans back to watch them. Sadly, that just ain't going to happen and the downward spiral of football below the top echelons will continue.

These morons are a total embarrassment not only to the club but more so to themselves and shows up society in a very poor light Regardless what you think of the Septics, lowering yourselves to their level is pathetic and something we all could do without in the highlands If you feel the need to sing this tripe get yer names on the buses that leave the Portland every Saturday Dougal

The reason I didnt stay away. It was a home game. I like going to watch ICT play. Its far better than watching tv, just like any live event is far better to watch it live, than to watch it on tv. I tend to get carried away at the football, if I tried that at home I would get 'carried away'. The weather didnt bother me I just put on more clothes. As for the Celtic/Irish/Argentina fans they are as predictable as ever and I still believe we can p1ss them off next weekend.

What really pissed me off yesterday was the idiots singing rule brittania and other rangers songs , thought there was going to be trouble when someone told them to shut up and sing ICT songs only for the fools to wind the guy up with "we're british and will sing it if we want" ! Cringeworthy .

The above link was posted on a friend of mine's facebook earlier today after our loss to the tims, and for some reason it's hit a nerve... This is one of the main reasons I don't go to games when the Old Filth are in town. IE Our own supporters get chastised for standing, chanting and having a good time, yet in the South stand the fans can party and no-one bats an eyelid.

It is folly to call anyone a better or worse supporter than another in any way shape or form ...... we all support the club as best we can and in whatever way we can based on our own personal circumstances. I have not attended regularly since 2003 as a 7000 mile round trip is not really feasible most weekends, but when planning trips back home - unless its for a specific event/purpose - I have to admit to scanning the fixture list for suitable dates and working towards that. Others may live out of town, may have limited financial means, may have other personal commitments like looking after children, or work commitments, or may be younger supporters who cant get to all games because their parents have commitments (or aren't interested) .... and none of us should look down our noses at anyone for that !!!! I am comfortable with my commitment to ICT, with the work I do behind the scenes assisting ICT, and with the sense of pride I get from being able to be their unofficial PR ambassador in Toronto (along with luvgravy of course) mentioning ICT at every opportunity when I go to TFC games, or just when out and about in the city ..... not to mention the sense of connection I retain from having run this site for the last 18 years !!!! I may not agree with the comments posted by some on here, I may not personally like some who post on here, but for the most part, I would not question anyone who comes on here and shows their support of the club

I love this comment on the bottom of the Toronto FC pricelist: http://www.goltv.ca/...-SINGLEMar8.pdf In-game atmosphere is huge .... I have been to TFC games where the team were crap, and where they got royally rogered but I came away with a smile on my face because of the banter that was flying around amongst the fans !!! Conversely, I have been to games where we won and played well but the atmosphere was flat and the fans felt that way too !!!! I have encountered the same at ICT too !!! Other than that, I think more thought should be given to pre-game and post-game entertainment to make it more of a day out. Forget half-time, no-one cares, they're all too busy talking to each other or trying to grab that elusive pie or bovril ! At TFC there is what amounts to a street festival outside the stadium before every game with vendors, freebies, and things like beat the goalie or other games to engage the kids (while the stall staff try to sell the adults something or get them to signup for something) !!! These vendors/sponsors presumably pay for a spot there before games so far from costing the club money, it generates it ! After the game, the same occurs (to a lesser extent) and quite often one of the team sponsors may be giving out freebies at the exits .... believe it or not, I have headed home from TFC games not only with things like pennants, little flags, keyrings or beanie hats, but also with boxes of Frosties and packs of Spaghetti !!!!!! This sort of thing costs the club nothing !!! Wonder whether ICT could have something like this near the front of the stadium, charge local/small vendors, food vans, or sponsors to come sell their wares in what would amount to a "market" kind of idea ...... a few quid from the vendors, more choice for the fans, and an opportunity to maybe generate more income from an hour or two either side of the game rather than just from 3-5pm ???

Forget all that, just get CaleyD back. he did well last time out, and at least he sounded alive!

no point cutting off your nose to spite your face I don't particularly care what others do, that's not my problem, I'm only bothered about what I do. They can sing and dance all they want, am I bothered, no. It is of course your choice, and if you are happy with that fine. It's not for me though.

ICT should run an open mics competition, perhaps in conjunction with Orion or MFR to find a local committed stadium announcer. Perhaps targeting media students from wannabe radio presenters and any local budding DJ's or indeed anyone who thought they were up to it. It could be pre match / half time entertainment with the club and fans voting for their favourite. The incentive to apply, watching ICT at home for free perhaps a pie and bovril at half time and a Platform to make a name for yourself. Free to do, easy to publicise and would probably generate a better outcome than we currently have.

I presume the tactics were, that Celtic would normally try to hem us in on our goal line. So hoofing a ball up, with Celtic's defenders pressed so far forward, would give a quick runner like Hayes an opportunity to steal a march. Unfortunately, Celtic were fairly average. They played quite cautiously, with only really Brown and Hooper being something spectacular. Hence, their back four, played fairly deep, so nothing to get beyond. As I said before, Tansey had a real off-day but tried so hard. Another time, he would be pinging passes out left, right and centre. I do like him as a player but it just didn't happen on Saturday for him. I've no problem with Foran's play. Did probably best out of all the midfield and attacking players. Gnasher also looked as though he could be good when he came on. Give him a few more games and we can see if he's a player, or if he flatters to deceive.

heres my own tale. I supprted ICT ALL the way thro the lower leagues, right up to and including winning promotion to the SPL. Since then, I dont think i have been to more than a handfull of games. my circumstances just dont allow it. I simply cant justify the admission price. Its ironic that since we reached the upper eschelons of Scottish Football, i seem to have lost a fair bit of interest in the game. Anytime i do watch them now, mostly on tele or listen on radio....im pretty much bored to death. I have gone on record before as saying....id rather lose every game and feel entertained, than feel ripped off and let down. At the end of the day, I firmly believe that ICT should realistically be getting gates of about 6000. But...footie seems to be dying on its ass in Scotland....and that seems to be passing everyone by. The question is....WHY and what can be done?

Might have known Dougal would be the first person to disagree The stand out point in the video for me is about 13 seconds in, when you see the crowd at the front getting bigger and bigger. Not a single steward seems to try and prevent it, and the police presence is practically zero. So, why should I, therefore, part with my hard earned cash to be told to sit down, shut up, stop swearing, stop singing and thus stop encouraging my team and supporting my team when the away support, partiularly either side of the Old Firm, are persistently allowed to do what they do in the video? Add to that the fact you're almost certain to be sat in close proximity to an opposing supporter in the home ends too... Yes, 12th man, I see where you're coming from in terms of 'its a home game and i like to watch ICT play', but I also like to enjoy myself at the games, and part of the enjoyment for me is being able to get behind my team without being chastised for doing so... I missed Celtics league visit up here back in November. I instead CHOSE to stay away and go for a walk with family and friends as part of my Highland March training. We took in the Nairn County Highland League match instead and what a day we had. We saw the latter part of the Celtic match on tv amongst some banter from Lossie fans, had a spot of lunch and some beers, watched a very entertaining 3-3 encounter and I probably spent around 20 quid in total during the course of the day. Rangers are up here in a few weeks time. Nairn County are once more at home (to Fraserburgh). I'm very tempted to don the walking boots and repeat Novembers antics. Heck, I might even start at Nairn and walk to Forres, and take in their home match against Pele's Formatine United.

Brilliant post DoofersDad. Ritchie is like a different player in his new role, he didn't do much wrong yesterday IMO.

In terms of prices....if it was me I would rip up the book on season ticket pricing and start again. 1. All children under 12 get free entry to games. 2. Up to age of 16 they pay an amount that would be considered affordable from "Pocket Money". 3. Full time education is the next price level. 4. Adult pricing is the next level 5. OAP Concession (although not as cheap as the FT Education price). Over and above that I would offer Loyalty Discounts. A bit like a No Claims Bonus insurance scheme.....so second year you get a 5% doscount, third year you get a 10% discount and so long as you keep renewing you keep the discount. I would also introduce a scheme which allowed people to build up credits/bonus points by helping the club with any projects, maintenance or whatever....things where by assisting you help save the club a bit of cash or add value. These credits can then be used to offset the cost of a season ticket. Local business could be encouraged to donate to a scheme that offered free or subsidised season tickets to people who genuinely can't afford to come to matches but would like to. Here's the most radical of ideas, but one I am sure Dougal will appreciate...Season Ticket holders at other SPL clubs can come and trade their Season Ticket Book in as part payment for an ICT one at any point during the season. Obviously some of these ideas would need some thought and planning...and there's maybe other ideas out there that might be better. We all know that what's there isn't working and we'll never know if other schemes would work if we don't try them (properly).

Interesting also to see Lennon's interview. Celtic have now won their last 15 matches and Lennon was heaping praise on his players for what he felt was a very good performance. They certainly defended well but they did not create much and relied on bad defensive errors for their 2 goals - if that was a performance to rave about then Lennon cannot have a particularly high opinion of what he expects of his team. Even accepting that what the 2 managers said after the game is something of an exageration of their true opinion and considering their opinions in the context of what I felt about the performances of the 2 teams yesterday, it seems to me that the 2 managers have pretty similar expectations of the quality of the product they expect from their teams. We lost by just 2 goals to the best team in the country but our manager is damning in his criticism of his team's performance whilst Lennon waxes lyrical about his. That suggests that both managers know there is not a lot of difference between the 2 sides. That is something to be positive about - it is a reflection of how far we have come and it really doesn't serve any purpose to read anything into yesterday's performance beyond the fact that it was disappointing. It is also a bit disappointing to see a return of the Foran bashing again just because we lost to the best team in the land. He may not have been particularly effective yesterday but I don't think his attitude can be faulted. Two incidents stand out for me. The first was when Tokely made his 2nd howler: Foran went to him and clearly offered words of encouragement which is what a captain should do. The Foran of old may have given Tokely a mouthful. The second was in the 2nd half when he dwelt too long on the ball and was dispossed on the edge of the Celtic area. The ball was passed up the field as Celtic counter attacked and it was Foran himself who had run back quickly who made the interception of the final ball in the ICT box. If others had demonstrated the same level of effort yesterday, the score may have been different.

I thought the attendance was shocking for an old firm game. I put the blame on the club. Everything they do does not take into consideration the fans. Whether its the state of the car park, the rubbish 'pub', the lack of incentives to attract new fans, the food, the club shop, the announcer, hospitality... i could go on. 2nd rate - its like amatuers are running our club. County put us to shame with most of the things i have mentioned.

Enjoyed the new look match report. What is it with the Foran bashing? At least he looked like he cared unlike others.

Foran was decent enough yesterday, at least he looked like he gave a feck. He worked very hard. The match report is made up of quotes taken from the matchday thread. If anyone objects to their posts being quoted please PM me and I will remove them. Have a look and see if you made the report. http://caleythistleonline.com/page/index.html/_/reports-2011-12/ict-v-celtic-r914 Cheers reporters

I have a wife, children and a grandchild to support = plus the tab at the local.

You crack me up....complaining about lack of support from the local area in one thread and hoping that we don't convert people to the cause and bring them in on an another!!! How exactly do you suggest converting one of them, once an Orc always an Orc IMO You maybe quite happy sitting next to union jack waving bigot but I'm most definitely not With that kind of attitude I can see now why you previously voted yes to kill of your previous team Dougal

I think part of the reason in dwindling attendance is the total lack of atmosphere , today for example was actually embarrassing ! I dont recall one song or chant of encouragement for our boys in fact its been like that for too long ! Is it any wonder our team play better away from home ! So maybe we should stop moaning about the team performance & take a look at ourselves !!

Im waiting in hope that Fanny Alexander will get the boot

Hmm, that's an interesting one. You are right in theory, but in reality it is different because a board is not a democaratic group of equals. Whether it is RBS or Rangers, one man is in charge and he calls the shots. Anyone who speaks out against his plans or is seen to question his authority is likely to end up either sacked or humiliated. I don't know whether the other directors had reservations, they surely did, but they would have learnt from experience that sometimes you just have to shut up and go along with it. After all, Fred knows what he is doing and has generated tremendous growth etc. It doesn't make their complicity right, no way, but that's just what happens when you have a leader who has built an empire and is virtually unchallengable as a result.

The $64 million question? Is it our very own Craig Whyte? Is it the new Vladamir Romanov? Could we have our very own Roman Abramovich? The options are endless........ Rather than (as usual) having a quiet wee pop at those who are actually involved in the club surely we should be seeking answers from those who want to be involved in the club? Whether we like all that has happened to date or not, the fact remains that all of those involved in the running of our club since inception have taken us from league entry to the SPL within 10 years where we have remained for all but one season. Appreciate not everything in the garden is rosy but for me, it's far from shabby! Lessons should be learned from the experiences of Hearts and Rangers. So who are Muirfield Mills and what are their commitments? If I have missed the announcement I apologise.