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See you in 7 days. P.S. Thread closed because we already have another of the same ilk.

Since we beat Hearts in January, we have won three out of nineteen league matches (one of which was against a second string Hibs side). In that period we have conceded 43 goals. On four occasions we have conceded four goals; twice we have conceded three. You have to admit, plenty of clubs have sacked managers following runs of form as bad as this, have they not? I'm sorry, but this now feels like September 2008, when Brewster's ICT side couldn't buy a win. And we all know what happened then...

Hi there New member here from Rotherham down in England. I'm a massive Sheffield Wednesday fan but also hugely passionate about ICT. Only just discovered the site having followed Caley since 2009 after a college trip to Aviemore included a trip to watch Caley against Morton in the promotion season in late October /early November (can't quite remember) Anyway, we won 4-1 and I had one of the most enjoyable days as a football supporter at that point. Since then I've only managed 6 matches (3-1 loss to Hearts in 2010, 2-0 win v Aberdeen in 2010, 3-1 win v Motherwell in March 2011, 1-1 With Hearts in September 2011, 2-0 loss to Rangers beginning of last season and the win against Hibernian last game last season. Anyway, after all that I am hoping to get to a few games this season when I'm not on tour with SWFC Please be nice

I quite enjoyed that match in a bizarre way. We lined up with Foran up front for McKay and Meekings slotting into the back four in place of King. Straight from kick off we won the ball and pushed forward with some decent play and for the next five minutes most of the play was ours. Ross Draper hit a low shot just wide and it looked like it might be an enjoyable game. Well started to push back into the game and forced a succession of corners which we looked a bit shaky at, Hately has great delivery from dead balls and Higdon is always a handful. Following two or three corners, Hately whipped one in and Ryan couldn't keep it out at his near post. He'll be absolutely gutted about it, there really isn't an excuse for not getting that ball. Almost straight from the kick off Well were two up as Humphrey, who was lively all day, tore down the left and evaded two lunging, desperate tackles from ShinnieG and Draper, centred for Higdon who took advantage of the space in the area to knock it home. It was absolutely gutting at this point, we looked on the end of a real hammering. However, we started to push back into it and had the ball in the net when Richie nodded the ball to the back-post for Sutherland to knock in, although this was then ruled out for an infringement on Foran's part. Being at the other end of the ground I didn't really have a great view but there didn't look to be that much in it. Foran then chased back, won the ball out wide and tore in on goal but his effort was blocked. We had pushed right back into the game and deserved the goal that came just afterwards. A corner was knocked clear to Owain Tudur Jones, who lobbed it to the back post where Foran headed in. We probably looked more likely to score at this point and Foran was played in by a long pass from Meekings for a great opportunity. His shot was blocked and he couldn't direct his header from the rebound goalward. In the second half the game was more end to end with both sides having chances. There were a couple of massive Well shouts for a penalty, one when Meekings (I think) made a tackle in the area (looked decent from our end) and again when a shot hit what the fans and players claimed was a hand. We also had a shout for a penalty when Richie was brought down while bearing in on goal by Mr O'Reilly had no time for it. Things were nicely poised when David Raven, who had actually been pretty solid today compared to other poor displays, made an absolute howler. We'd had the ball in midfield and Raven received it and tried to roll the ball back to Esson but his short pass was eaten up by Higdon, who knoced it home. It was an absolute sickener, we had fought so hard to get back and to lose a goal like that is hard to take. We continued pushing forward, Shane came close with a header from a Foran cross that his marker did well to put behind for a corner. Subsittute Ojama helped finish us off though, tearing away on a breakaway, beating his man and squaring for Higdon to crack one home for his hat-trick. We could've cut the deficit almost straight away when Foran was clearly brought down in the box by Page and the ref gave a penalty. Shinnie's spot kick was well saved by Darren Randolph, who had earlier made a stunning diving stop from a Gary Warren overhead kick. I left with a couple of minutes to go as our train was at 1711, not sure much of note happened in injury time. Overall I feel strangely positive after a 4-1 defeat, which isn't like me. We really did well going forward, although, as AM says we took the wrong option around the opposition goal a few times. Richie Foran was absolutely brilliant today, on another day he could have scored a hat-trick, he worked hard, won everything in the air, played good passes and crosses, fought and harried. An absolutely towering display and we need to keep him up there if we are going to get anything out of this season. The obvious downside is our defending. We looked nervous defending corners and Chris Humphrey was livewire and had the better of Graeme Shinnie a lot fo the game. We just seem to make basic errors too often - a short passback, not dealing properly with a run from wide, letting a corner sneak in. I fear we'll end up repeating the mistakes of last season, chopping and changing at the back. Raven I feel sorry for, he hasn't done that well but was playing OK today until their third goal. Graeme Shinnie was caught a few times by Humphrey and looked uncomfortable against him the whole game. Shinnie is the sort of the full back who dominates his opponent by pushing onto them rather than by dealing with them and that style isn't suited to a guy like Humphrey who is pacey and got time today. In midfield, I think Ross Draper is a great player and had another influential game. Owain Tuduro Jones, cross for the goal aside, is a waste of space. He looks like he can play but he never actually raises his game and takes control fro 90 minutes. The fact he was subbed in a straight swap (for Graeme Morrison who was better) says it all. I thougth Shane and Doran did OK, took a few too many wrong options but were available and looked fluid, espeically Doran who popped up all over. Andy Shinnie had some good touches but had a quieter game than previously. We need to sort out our defence and it's a big job but watching that today it isn't hopeless.

For the neutral that was probably a cracking game to watch. We had a lot of possession and played some nice stuff in midfield, but there were too many wrong decisions in the final quarter. We did have quite a few chances, although I'd still say Motherwell had more, and obviously they were much more clinical than us. The fourth goal was an absolute beauty, but or the others, the ICT defending was calamitous, especially Raven for the third. Humphrey tore Shinnie apart all afternoon on the other side too. All the same, if Gary Warren's overhead kick hadn't been saved, if Andrew Shinnie had scored his penalty, then we might have had a very exciting finish. I still maintain we're playing much more attractive football than last year, but after the defensive displays of the last two weeks, people ate entirely justified in feeling worried about the season ahead. It'll be interesting to see how Butcher responds to this.

I really hope no one thought we had any chance of making top six this year.

Brew left us as soon as he could. Was well on the way to getting Dundee United relegated. Failed there. Came back here when he wasn't wanted. Was pretty certain to get us relegated too. Butcher was the choice of CTO. Some might blame him for getting us relegated. I thought he gave us hope. Brought us up at the first opportunity. Has been nowhere near relegation since we came back up. Just started a new season with only one defeat and that's to the champions of last year and almost certainly this. The criticism is just way over the top this early in the season. But then, it's not about this season is it? It's about wanting someone to fail, so they can say "I'm right at last! We should never have hired him, no matter how well we've done these past few seasons!" It's just simply tedious. Shout for his head if he fails but one defeat to Celtic???? It's ridiculous.

Your wish is my command....see you in 7 days. If anyone has an issue with the actions of myself or any of the site moderators then they should PM us (or another moderator) to raise their concerns. Posts such as this one will be locked (and later removed) and no discussion will be entered into on them.

Ok, calm down dears We have two weeks to regroup and sort this mess out. If we find ourselves getting thumped up till county game then I'll push the panic button. If there's any repeat of march 2003 in the derby then ill make sure butcher eats the panic button! But I can't see it happening, butcher will spend these next two weeks gruelling them and they'll be ready for dons, BELIEVE!!!! Also, say Butcher left tomorrow. Who would have the right Pedigree to take over this squad? (If anyone says john robertson they'll get a virtual slap in the balls) Terrys here to stay and I Believe he'll get it sorted!!! We are Caley, Super Caley :D

mfr 2 on 1107 mw

And your qualifications for saying this is ..??? You could insert 'I feel' or 'my opinion is' but your statement of fact suggests you are maybe not the best judge of football managers. I have just watched the EPL Saturday night show and the pundits opinion ..? The teams need a few weeks for the new players to settle in ... However our manager, in the opinion of the 'neggies' - can settle in his new players immediately unlike the top managers in England. For Heavens sake try and be a wee bit mature before posting rubbish.

As has been said, just because you aren't good enough to go pro at Arsenal doesn't mean anything. Just having been at Arsenal should have taught him well, hopefully he can develop well with us!

Who now really gives a toss about Tokely, Munro or Tinkerville - we need to sort our feckin selves out - I would have to say again that today was as much about the midfield cover as the defence and the fact that Butcher is infallible.

Only strange if you didn't follow ICT during the Pele years when our season starts were a carbon copy of what we've seen so far.....keep the faith.

I was once asked my availability to coach a football team in Sheffield....... .... I said I can't manage Wednesday. Welcome aboard.

i feel, at times, too many of our players lack concentration and intelligence...experience possibly

What a joke this CaleyD is. Here is what they wrote the other week "As you should all be aware....having agreed to the forum rules when you signed up for the site....we do not tolerate abusive content on here. There's been a marked increase in such content, but it stops now. This includes calling players, manager, coaches, club staff, other users etc names" Here is what they have just posted on another thread!! Mahonio....grow up!!! Your "I'm a spoiled 14yr old" tantrums after every loss get rather boring and tiresome. They were last season, they are this season.

Come on CaleyD big shot ***** Moderator. Follow through with your nazi like, egotistic attitude and delete this topic as you have already threatened. "Please do not start any other topics on the matter as these will be closed and removed. If you have an issue with the content of this post then feel free to PM me or any of the site moderators". At the same time, ban me from your site as I am sick of reading your *****. CaleyD, you should give the stewarding at the stadium a go. You would fit in perfectly to their regime.

FIGHT THE POWER

Boohoo. Give the bairn some chocolate!! Like I said in my last post........who would be good enough and have the right pedigree to come in and take over?

Just like most of our players then..........

For all those people saying "Who can we get who is better?" - I point you at St Johnstone's successful appointments of rookies Owen Coyle and Derek McInnes, or Derek Adams over the bridge, as examples. They took a chance on young coaches and have been rewarded. I feel Butcher still belongs to the stone age of football managers, where they think that all you need to do on matchday is tell the players to "go out and get it right up 'em". I can't think of any occasion when a tactical change by him has changed a game in our favour, but plenty where the opposition have changed their system and we've not been able to respond. He no longer seems capable of making this team even the equal of the sum of their parts (let alone greater than), nor does he seem to be able to coach up players - Ross, Graeme Shinnie and Sutherland, for example, have not become particularly better players over the last two years. This feels like 4 years ago, where Brewster was clearly a lame duck and the team were a mess.

I have to say that I'm now feeling very concerned about our prospects and much of the blame has to be laid at the managers door. I'm not one to call for the managers head but if we don't see any improvement in our position by the County game the serious questions will need to be asked. Forget about Munro, Tokeley etc, the manager has the right to build his own team as he sees fit. My issue is that the players we've brought in are completely inadequate for the demands of the SPL. None of the players signed have had any SPL experience or much experience of Scottis football which must bring his judgement into question. No league win in 5 this season and only 5 league wins this calendar year does not make for good reading. I think the 3 games in October are the make or break (County, St.Johnstone & Dundee), if we're adrift after those I can't see any way back for Butcher in the eyes of the fans.

Where's that panic button gone? I think I'll give that a wee push.....

Don't understand football. Dominated the game create so much more chances than them but lose 4-1? At 2-1 Motherwell should've been down to ten men, foran was clean through, and got taken out. Some wonder saves from Randolph stopped us getting 3 or 4 goals I'm bewildered.

Embarrassing scoreline. Shipping goals at an alarming rate and a full two weeks before we can address the problem. Woe is me.....

Is it time to panic yet? Because I'm feeling pretty panicky...

I am now certain that butcher has ruined our club omg!!

Interesting points you make. My father is a season ticket holder at ICT and has been for many seasons and I have heard him make all four of those points above (as well as a few others) more and more over the last couple of seasons. Of those I believe points 3 and 4 are those that are his biggest grumble. Although I am overseas and only get to attend 1 or 2 games a season I do hear more and more that the County experience is a better overall product at all levels for the spectator. Not one which I wish to experience myself but they must be doing some things better. Therefore if that is the case then it is to the club I look to embrace the new competition they have been given for 'bums on seats' in the SPL and show that they can offer a better product both on and off the pitch....and maybe to achieve that some will have to consider the greater need and not personal gratification. I watch from afar with interest....

Arbroath have shipped 15 goals in 7 competetive games this season so their defence is not good. I would expect the likes of Sutherland and Shinnie to look good against that kind of opposition. Neither looked good against Celtic so let's hope the performance against Arbroath gives them the confidence to dominate the Motherwell defence. One worry about Sutherland (a player who I have always liked by the way) is his ability to give goalkeeping practice to fans in row R rather than the opposition keeper. Keeping the ball down is a basic skill which he surely must practice in training. On match days I have seen him smash the ball into the back of the net during the warm ups but when it matters it usually goes over the bar. It's frustrating - he's capable of being a very good player indeed.

The question is Butcher the man for the job, well yes he is actually a football manager whether we like it or not. I know everyone say he “good” with the press but that my problem. He tends to tell the press what he thinks which the press love. He is far too realistic which then means he is far too negative. I would prefer if he did what every other manager did and just talk up team, the style of football, all the plus points with the club and ignore the rest. We are top goal scorers at the moment with 7 goals in four games. Our recognised strikers have all scored along with 2 midfield players. We scored 2 goals against the champions elect, how many other team will do that this year in the SPL? At the start of season how many point would you realistically expect after 4 games, especially after play two of the top 4 club in the country? Personally I would have thought 4, a draw away to St Mirren and home win against Kilmarnock. So has the start of season been so bad that it is time to lock away any sharp objects. PS can anyone on here tell me that any of the game this season has been boring? I have been to all the games apart from Hearts (still upset). 16 goals with 2 red cards that an average of 4 goals a game with a red cards every 2 games. You don’t get that following EPL or Spanish teams.

I'd love to see Rory back. He looked a powerful player at Peterhead. He was only a kid when he was here. I'd love to see us take a chance.

I'm old school when it comes to this. The harder the better, get the ball and it's fine take the man on the follow through and that's a bonus. Seen nothing in it.