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It's been a poor start in terms of results and performances under Yogi but no need to panic. RIG, making comparisons to other managers starts is all very well but there are different circumstances every time. Perhaps we should have re-signed Baltacha due to his 13 points from 6 games!? Many folk were unhappy with the appointment. Fair enough. Most folk that were unhappy decided to set aside their disagreement with the appointment to give him the benefit of the doubt. However some of the doubters seem to be taking great satisfaction in the poor start as if to say 'we told you so'. It's 6 games in FFS. Hard fought draws at Midden, and Partick as well as a very good performance at Hearts. Three defeats at home, one of them narrowly defeated by Celtic when I think we deserved something and a narrow defeat to Aberdeen. The only match I was entirely dissatisfied with was the County match. Of course, i'm looking at it from a happy clappy style perspective. The pessismist would point out the disastrous start against Aberdeen and say we should have beaten Midden and Partick. However, we have drawn many times at the Midden. Last January we lost 2-1 (or maybe 2-0) in a midweek game. One of the worst performances of the season. Partick beat us at home this season and should have got something from the Celtic game. Speaking of the Midden game, Yogi had been in the door only a few days. He did not take the team that day. He let Shearer pick the team and Yogi sat in the stand to observe. It wasn't a great performance but it can't be attributed to Yogi. Last January and February was a horrible period for ICT. The performances in most games were similar to the performance against County the other day. Our players seem to take these bizarre dips in confidence / form. I genuinly believe that it is not the fault of Yogi, however it is now his priority to sort it out - asap. I noticed that before Yogi was appointed, although we were still getting results, we were starting to play more sluggish football and not on top form. We were excellent against Hibs in Mo's last game in the dug out. However there were games where we were poor. The 4-0 defeat in Perth, the 2-1 defeat at home to Partick, the half of football against County that was abandoned - wasn't great to watch and was generally poor. First half against Morton was awful for example. The victory against St Johnstone in Inverness - great result but overall not a great performance. Can't complain at the time but you can compare it to recent performances. I don't think it was any worse than say the performance against Celtic or the second half against Aberdeen and Hearts. Also, despite the horrific conditions I thought in the 2nd half the lads showed great confidence and skill when defeating Hearts. Could have and should have been more. Yogi said he was hoping his appointment would be a smooth transition and he would hope that everyone would feel like it was business as usual. If you look at the team line ups, he has kept the same team, only changing the starting XI when injuries dictate. Raven was out injured for quite a while before coming back onto the bench against Hibs. He has continued to be on the bench. The back four has remained unchanged. This was the same back 4 that beat Hibs, St Johnstone, Morton, Killie etc and got us quite a few clean sheets. The team are set up in the same way as Butcher would have set them up. I'm told that training is very similar to the way it was under Mo and Terry. I'm also reliably informed that the players like him and look up to him so it's not like he has lost the dressing room. So what has gone wrong!? Training is similar, the line ups are similar, and he has the dressing room. I would have thought that business as usual would have then reflected on to the park. I do believe cracks were showing before he arrived. We have a small squad and some of the performances of late have looked like some of them are tired. He's kept faith with the same back 4 that had won us many clean sheets. Business as usual for sure, but I do believe this was a mistake. The coaching staff know the team better than he does. He's still learning their strengths and weakness. I really hope that the coaching staff have convinced him / can convince him that we need Raven back at right back. I did hope that after Ravens substitute performance against the Dons he would have seen this as well. Butcher made mistakes. Every manager does and I do believe that Yogi has made a mistake in not starting Raven. Plenty of attack comes from him at RB and Shinnie is better at LB. After the Aberdeen game I believe Raven should have found his place back into the team for the Partick / Celtic / County games. Perhaps with his drive and build up play from the right hand side we would have scored against Partick and Celtic. Perhaps we wouldn't have conceded against County. All speculation on my part of course and Raven is just one player. Some of the players look tired (yet i'm led to believe they are not being overtrained). Therefore, it's time for Yogi to make changes. Starting with Motherwell on Saturday. Raven MUST come in. I hope the coaching staff can see that as well, as they have seen Raven play that position more than Yogi has. Yogi is a big fan of the youth so hopefully we see Polwarth and Christie feature more regularly soon. I stand by my very positive comments at his appointment. I understand why certain folk have reservations, but I do believe it's too early to write him off. Motherwell is one of the toughest places to go to, and we have a poor record there. Not the best game for a manager that is getting flack from fans. However I think some of the flack and comments are far too harsh. Yogis priority now is to stop the rot. I don't believe he is at fault for the rot, but he will need to stop the rot as soon as possible. This is his short term mission. I'm sure we all hope he succeeds.

To say that John Hughes doesn't fit here only after about 4 weeks in charge is really harsh. So, who would have been a better option than John Hughes (Paul Hartley excluded due to reason he declined) that mouthpiece Kenny Shiels or the very inexperienced Paul Telfer. In no way am I happy clapping by being supportive of John Hughes. John Hughes was never my first choice and probably never made my top 10 choices of managers but he is the manager of our football club and as a supporter of the club I am putting aside my thoughts and giving the manager time to bed in with the team and get an understanding with each other. Sure results haven't been pretty on the eyes but give the man time to get his own ideas implemented in the team. The injuries that we currently have are playing a massive part in the results aswell. We really need Richie Foran driving the team forward, we need David Raven at RB because we are conceding a lot of goals from the right hand side and I wouldn't put it past other managers taking heed and getting advantage out of it. We are badly needing James Vincent playing behind Billy Mckay and getting Nick Ross back on the wings where at the start of the season played the best I had seen in a long time. Success won't happen overnight but jesus let John Hughes get in the door first and give him time. Look what happened when we gave Terry Butcher time to gel a team together.

Here we are exactly half way through the season, and it is remarkable how the first goal in a game has been decisive. Of our 19 league games: 10 wins – we scored first every time 6 defeats – we conceded first every time 2 no score draws 1 score draw (2-2 at Celtic) – the only game in which the team scoring first didn’t go on to win. Some people mentioned elsewhere that the players heads seemed to drop the other day after going behind – maybe it’s because they know that they haven't so much as salvaged a draw when that has happened! The positive thing is that ICT have been incredibly good at holding onto leads. The message for Hughes is that the only tactic we need is to score the 1st goal, the rest will take care of itself. I don’t know why he didn’t think of this before.

Here is an updated psychological perspective - many evidently did not take the time to read or consider my previously posted Aftermath of a Narcissist post. ICT had become Terry Butcher - he was in control of EVERYTHING. He had his co-dependents entrenched and wholly loyal to his cause. He manipulated others and bullied if necessitated. To be fair he was and is an impressive and characteristic individual and has learned a lot from the psychology that he has trained and invested in. I suspect that many of the players - especially many who feel indebted to TB - are still grieving. This was never going to be the case of a new manager coming in all around the club trying to impress and results being positive. Irrespective of who got the job they were in fer a very, very difficult initiation. I am informed that one of TB's main "beefs" was that he recognised that the squad was threadbare and wanted more funds which were never going to be available. He is adept enuff at seeing that the writing was on the wall and fecked off to Embra before he was the one that looked like a failure. The promises of Leith added to the lure. And from my perspective - what has Hughes changed since he arrived - the answer is feckin nothing - becos that would have totally upset the remaining co-dependents and many of the blinded fans on this forum. He is still playing the Butcher system and the TB selection, even down to the subs. He has really kept a back seat as he does not want to make waves. We had INCREDIBLE L.U.C.K in avoiding injuries and suspensions and we were always going to struggle when we did. Well that may well be Yogi's saving grace. I reckon that if we make the league Cup final and a top six finish that will be a success. Lets blood some of the youngsters instead of playing the TB/Vaseline selections from Down Saff. Hughes would not have been my first choice but I can see the logic and this forum is not helping in feeding the negativity and the anger - which again psychologically - is more about the loss of a Judas and a false hope that he had cleverly instilled rather than the arrival of a journeyman, an honest man and somebody who would die for a cause. This is ICfeckinT not Real Madrid.

If its Foran who is raising the team then it should have been him who was made manager. The players have coped without him in the past and there is no excuse for them not to this time around. Yogi needs to be more active in the dugout, that I agree with. Too many times yesterday he even had his back turned. I hope he isnt too concerned about tainting "Terry's legacy" as he has often referred to. He needs to stop talking about it as Terry's team. Its his team now. Talking about Terry wont help.

The Eagle has landed - but is sadly full of birdshitt.

Plenty fans stayed away under Butcher when we were `slipping` UP the league !!

What gingerjaggy says is fair. The season is still far from over and with everything to play for. We will be fighting the next few games in the face of adversity, it could just be the catalyst we need to kick start our season. No Foran, no Draper etc. On the back of the derby you could see how gutted some of the lads were. These things sometimes have a funny way of helping players raise their game...flip side is we could get gubbed, most of us will still be there regardless. Like it or not, want Hughes or not we just have to ride the hard times as fans and support the players out there on the pitch. Its not happy clapping and its not pulling wool over eyes...its support.

Eat Sleep Raven Repeat

It's not like Motherwell can do much else. They think the game will go ahead but rather than have ICT fans get all the way to Glasgow and find the game is off they are going to check things out as early as they can tomorrow. Fair play to them I reckon.

Probably safe to say the honeymoon is over then. The thing is, I fully expected a slump in form at some point this season. It happens to pretty much every team, even title winners have sticky patches. I also thought that we were perhaps in a false position. Now it only takes something minor to knock the train off track. We lost one of our longest serving managers and builder of this team. Terry Butcher was always going to be a very hard act to follow. Thing is at the moment I am slightly concerned yes. It's natural when you haven't won in 5 games and lost 3 of your last 6 under the new manager (all by a single goal though I must stress). In every game we've lost we've given the opposition a stupid head start and not been able to recover. However had we won yesterday, that would have been a second win to add to 2 draws and 2 defeats against quality opposition. 8 from 18. Satisfactory. It shows the fine line in games. I'm still happy to give Hughes the rub of the green. He wasn't my 1st choice. I thought we were getting an old head from England. That was the route the board implied. I was quite happy with that. For those who have taken the hump because Hartley never took/got the job I say get real. Just because a manager does well in the lower divisions does not mean he will in the top flight. See Ian McCall. Sheils had to settle for the Morton job. Was that our other choice? The main problem I see with Hughes is his unwillingness to upset Terry's boys. He appears as though he doesn't want to step on anybody's toes. He has to get tough with them and get them working hard to rectify the issues we've seen in the last few weeks that have cost us games. As said above it's his team now and Butchers legacy counts for nothing. You're only as good as your last result and that was a loss to County at home. Therefore things need sorted. I don't think he'll be a great gaffer, nor a terrible one. I can't see us becoming all conquering but I can't see us falling down either. I'll take mid table, and so would most realistic ICT fans. We'll have ups and downs and yo yo. I can take that.

There were far too many folk on this forum 'talking-up' Hughes when he came here. Artificial, fawning over a complete managerial journeyman. It's interesting to look back at the 'New Manager thread' to see just who was apparently, 'actually quite pleased' (or more!) at his appointment. Obviously won't specifically name the posters, but the thread's there to view. It's strange how it's gone silent - those folk who lauded his 'motivational skills' and 'work ethic' and 'good record'(!) etc. aren't quite so vocal now in expressing their faux ("must support the club whatever") delight at JH's appointment. I kid you not, but some 'happy clappers' would find a positive in ANYTHING the club did. That's not being a fan, but rather naively trusting blindly and unquestioningly the choice of a businessman who knows little about actuall football. No wonder Bennett wanted to distance himself. Say,Hughes appointed Tich MacCooey as assistant manager but didn't tell us until much later it was a wind-up, I guarantee there'd be support for MacCooey on here! 'Good local contacts' and other meaningless sound bites. I was scathing from the off, but am now convinced he doesn't fit here. He's somehow struggling to impart his ideas onto the players - maybe he's lost them already. But we've got Hughes for the season and for all of next. And the season after that! Let's get used to mediocrity.

Nah surely the merger caused this.

Why is Raven not playing ? He came back against Aberdeen and looked as if he hadn't been away. The defence looks more solid with him. A bit more height to help Warren and Meekings. Shinnie could play in Foran's place, or in front of Tremarco. The three games at home under JH were all the same. Lost early goal, chasing the game, then losing another goal (except Celts), throwing on forwards, and never recovering.

Proudly in the Howden End in the sky - Shine Bright Mikey Diamond.

Don't think you'll find many who agree with you on this. Foran signing a new deal has been welcomed by everyone except you as far as I can see. He's also 33 not 34!

He wants to get himself an assistant in January.

Had a very quick look over the archives and here are the point totals for each of our managers from their first six games in charge. I've not double checked it so it could be wrong. Baltacha 13 points Christie 11 points Butcher 11 points Paterson 7 points Brewster (2) 7 points Robertson 6 points Brewster (1) 6 points Hughes 5 points

Having a lack of leadership on the park is one thing, but it's the job of the management to motivate the players, whether Foran's in there or not. His absence is no excuse. Richie always ran the show on the pitch. Of course, as I said in my post that I have yet to to see John actually motivate the players from the dugout (only when things went tits up vs County and Aberdeen) Foran's being missed, there's no doubt about that, but not having him there is no reason for the players to be so unmotivated though. They didn't particularly up for it yesterday and haven't really done so since the second half of the Aberdeen game. I haven't seen the heads drop after going a goal down yesterday like that since the Brewster days. Of course, I totally agree but as I said Butcher's departure will have played a massive part of it and maybe leaving it nearly 4 weeks to appoint a manager was too long but I well and truly hope this is a wake up call to players and to management team. You could see how gutted some of the players were to lose the game, with some looking like they lost a major cup final. Regarding Duncan Shearer being assistant, I'm not too sure to be honest. Don't get me wrong he's a decent guy but I just don't think it suits him and John Hughes needs a more experienced No. 2 like Maurice Malpas is to Butcher.

I can tell you what's gone wrong, the players will feel abandoned. The way that Terry left our club would have had a negative effect on the players. Terry rejected Barnsley because he didn't think it was right to leave the club cause of how special it is. The situation with Hibs is identical to the one last January with Barnsley but with the opposite outcome. The players will have felt that when Hibs came calling that he would have had the same thought process. I feel that the unecessary comments towards John Hughes are unjustified - the man has only just got through the door. I can take a defeat and I thought the game vs Celtic we played a positive game and we should have got something out of the game. Yesterday's game and first half vs Aberdeen really hurt me to watch but none of it has been John Hughes' fault. Sure tactically we could have done better but as time goes on John Hughes will gel with the players and vice versa and we can easily get back to winning ways. Things obviously have been made more difficult for John Hughes with the absence of Richie Foran leading and motivating the team. I think John Hughes should look to be a more interactive and motaviting on the dugout as I've yet to see that happening but again I'm positive that will come over time.

If hibs win today that's the gap down to 6 -no pressure AJ !! Obsessed Obsessed Obsessed Obsessed Obsessed

Collins was Director of Football at Livi rather than Assistant Manager to Hughes. Just had a look and see that mark Burchill is the current A/M at Livi - that makes me feel old!

Billy McKay

Again what the feck has the last month have to do with Hughes ?

Old Caley Girl--so one poster likes my comment and one doesn't. J.Hughes broke-off from D Balfour when Stokes walked by to engage in lovey-doveys and D Balfour was forgotten and forlorn with a cheerful, but probably somewhat embarrassed smile, on his face. And, unless you asked D. B. yourself what he felt, you don't actually know whether he enjoyed it or not, really, do you? For your information I enjoyed it too except that it was not the time or the place IMHO. Perhaps you miss the point. He had plenty of time later to have chats or kissing and cuddling with Stokes and I was looking at the video to find out what our new Manager thought about the game and not to see him leave his interviewer in the lurch in order to exchange pleasantries with a player from the team that just BEAT us. I'm just an old fuddy-duddy but I think that it was bad manners towards his interviewer and to the video viewer and it did, apparently, show that to him chummy chats with old acquaintances might just be more important than advising the fans of his own opinions on the match...

I see Brentford are looking to sign Arsenal's striker Chuba Akpom on loan (Someone I wanted us to use the Arsenal link for last January transfer window) With them already having Marcello Trotta and to add Akpom maybe El Alagui could be a realistic loan deal till end of season?

What about Farid El Alagui? Fallen out of favour at Brentford apparently. Proven goalscorer in Division One at Falkirk, and offers something to Mckay. Don't know if he'd come here, but he'd be a good signing I think.

I spoke to my daughter yesterday on the phone.( she lives in Brighton) I mentioned ICT had signed Hughes as the new manager. She said that's a surprise, he hasn't been at Stoke long" I had to smile