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i'm fairly new to this forum, so a lot of subjects that have been "done to death" are new to me. if the subject really is so tiresome to you, don't feel that you have to contribute. it's not like you're adding anything interesting to the thread. i thought as a long standing member you'd be delighted that more and more supporters are being converted to the cause. no offence

Good post Wyness hopefully he'll get a good turn out and sell a fair number of copies I certainly will be popping along to purchase my copy Book looks like a hard back and off good quality which is always a bonus. I was in said waterstones last Friday and stumbled upon " Up stephen's Brae" I kid you not it looked like it had been literally typed up on a pre war type writer and stapled together by primary kids All the best big Dunc with the sales

Come on, ICT, fly the flag. Show how proud we are to have won the flaming thing, in the first place!

8/10! No bad for a woman :biggrin:

How is it self righteous to expect a team caught cheating the system to be punished? If the Dees gamble had paid off and you'd reached the SPL where would our club be now? Indignant? Yes. Self righteous? No. Bloody angry? You bet I am. By waiting until the campaign had started DFC have made a complete mockery of Scottish Football. If I was a Dundee fan I'd want to start again in the Juniors and get a decent management structure into the club so we don't have to rely on maverick businessmen.

1938: Northern Ireland team v Morocco Tuffey, Hodson, McGivern, Hughes, Evans, Barton, Gorman, McGinn, McCourt, Brunt, Patterson.

Because Scotland are much better off for good keepers than N.Ireland...

0-0 so far. England 1-0 down to World Cp flops France! (benzema)

They are also issuing an apology to the Nazis, who are apparently furious about having their name tarnished through association with Airdrie.

Aye,your correct D,and that part of my rant wasn't aimed at yourself,apologies if you thought it was,i understand you research your facts and i respect your honesty and forthrightness, some folk however, are quick to jump on the liquidate bandwagon after listening to a few calls on sportsound. I agree major change has long been needed,and it will probably take casualties before the powers that be take steps to resolve some of the ills within the game and the running of clubs. Personally, i'd love to get back to football being about 3.00 pm on a Saturday and a few beers , instead of constantly striving to bale out further financial mismanagement and attempting to understand the politics involved. For those directing their ire and indignation,be assured your anger doesn't come close to that felt by people who have invested massive energy and resources into doing what they believed to be for the best to save the club they have grown up with.

You know me well enough to appreciate that my comments are certainly not born out of any "self righteous indignation" and that I would not put ICT forward as holding any moral high ground when it comes to financial matters. A little naive if they thought 26% would prevent/protect against a single investor taking overall control and whilst I haven't read the DFC Articles and Memorandums I would imagine the only thing it does give you is the power to block changes therein. As the club is effectively controlled by the Board, whoever controls them controls the club. At ICT we have/had* a situation whereby Tulloch Homes only required a 25% shareholding in order to appoint 75% of the Board and the Chairman....they have, in effect, become self selecting (the Board choose new Board Members) and it would take a 75% vote to change it. As Tulloch Homes own more than 25% then, effectively, someone could buy up all other shares and still not have control. Like Dundee, we are exposed to the same dangers...as, I imagine, are the vast majority of clubs. (*Changes to the number of Board Members permissible at last AGM will have an impact on this situation) We've had cash in the bank for many years, and in that regard have been fortunate. However, it came at a cost as we don't own the stadium. You could argue that was a good thing as it has removed the temptation to borrow against the family silver and you could argue that it's a bad thing as it has left us heavily indebted to others..even if not in a financial manner. We are all fully aware that last year was budgeted for with an element of risk and we were told so at the time, but the risk was one which would have done little more than empty the bank had it failed. What's more, we had already made many cuts immediately following relegation and that included a player wage structure that was heavily weighted towards performance related bonuses. In fact, the club ended up about £200k worse off than budgeted for over the season as a result of the good run we went on, so even our success had some negatives!!! What we wouldn't have been faced with is insurmountable debt and we would have been in a position to cut the cloth and bring spending within the means of the club. Had Dundee cut costs at the start of this season I feel it would have done little more than delayed the inevitable as your problems, as it now transpires, go back even further. Even as we speak Dundee are not operating within their means as they are relying heavily on fundraising to get by...they may not be in receipt of that money, but the promises and signs that money is there is preventing the plug being pulled. I fully understand what a CVA is and was making no interpretation, simply pointing out that I don't necessarily agree with the mechanism. Also, let's face it, if decision were made purely on "viability" then no administrator in his right mind would allow a football club to continue trading under current business models once it had gone into administration. The point I'm making is that what right does Dundee FC (or any business) have to "be saved" if their mismanagement has sent others to the wall? What makes someones job there more important than a job which may be lost as a result of their only returning X pence in the pound to someone they owe money too? Liquidation does not mean creditors get nothing, it means all assets are sold and the proceeds divided up among them. What I am saying is that if that process would give a larger return for creditors then it should be the one used unless investors (and or fans) are willing to provide sufficient funds to make the CVA the more attractive offer. If it's affordable and not to the long term detriment of the club, then why not? For the record, and I am sure I said it elsewhere, I have no desire to see Dundee go to the wall or disappear. However, I am getting fed up of the same thing happening time and again within football and nobody doing anything about it. Fans do little/nothing, clubs do little/nothing, our football associations do little/nothing and our government/courts do little/nothing. There's small glimpses of positive change coming from higher up at FIFA and UEFA, but they are a few years off and we could easily lose a half dozen clubs by the time they come in to effect. Until we ALL start getting our head out of our butts and start facing up to the fact that nearly every one of our clubs is one bad decision being made by one small group of people away from extinction then nothing will change and we'll continue to lurch from one disaster to another. The days of throwing money in buckets to help has passed, IMO. It is not curing the problem and lessons should have been learned long ago and continually throwing good money after bad is not the answer. The fact that fans are going around cap in hand to raise money to support a regime which shows no sign of changing for the better is, quite frankly, obscene and until that changes then we are every bit as culpable for the problems that exist in the way clubs are run as anyone else.

Have you just discovered the internet is for other stuff too? Until the merger Hibernian. Since then ICT through and through.

When Caley still played in the Highland league my 'big team' was Aberdeen. My Dad has always supported them and used to take me to some of the games when Fergie was still the manager. They really were a great team then and I still have very fond memories of watching them winning in cup finals. Strange to think now how bad The Dons have become and to see us above them in the league. I still have a soft spot for Aberdeen and they will always remain my '2nd team' and hope they win whenever they are not play ICT.

Now that is what ya call a Freudian slip and possibly accurate to boot.

Think my wife knows more about football than I do. But then I can't even spell caley at times.

I am very suprised you have a (as you put it) 'partner' at all Dougal. If you talk as much p1sh to her as you post on here I'm even more surprised.

oh dear

Wow - some peeple are actually taking notice. Grant Munro was brought up in the shadows of the Machine - but that was a great learning curve and role model. Since the machine left not only has Granty had to suffer a fair number of central defence partners - all of different styles and skill levels - but he has also had to deal with a succesion of full backs that he had had to cover for - in my opinion Lionel must have been a nightmare but even the marauding Rosscoe at this offensive best created problems. but granty has stuck by it and is now beginning to show the beginnings of a new machine - and I couldnt praise him higher than that. I also feel that he did suffer from the extra stress and responsibility of captaincy and was probably given the role too early but who else was there. He was excellent last season and this year is showing the benefit of being able to think mainly about himself without worrying too much about the deficits of others. The only chant has to be like the man himself - simple but effective: Grant Munro - Grant Munro - He goes by the name of Grant Munro (repeat)

Whether it's through fear, panic or paranoia, I don't know, but many associated with Dundee seem to have lost the plot. The 25 point deduction seems about right to me for a club in administration for the second time in seven years, and the idea that relegation to Division 2 is an unthinkable situation which they could never survive will be seen by many as ridiculous. Clubs survive in Divisions 2 & 3 when they are run prudently and Dundee should be able to do the same if they find themselves there. Then again this is Dundee, a club that could not live within its means in the SPL or SFL Div 1. Much of the sympathy I had for them a week ago is fast evaporating and I suspect many Scottish football fans are starting to feel the same way.

I think a tough line needs to be taken. As long as penalties for this sort of behaviour are relatively minor, people will continue to take risks with the finances of football clubs. What they are doing is taking a gamble that the investment will lead to rewards on the back of success, and as long as the risk seems to be small relative to the potential rewards, people will continue to take those risks. Others have commented that it is the fans of clubs going into administration who suffer and that they should not be the victims of this. That may be true, but to some extent they, at least, have an opportunity to comment on and perhaps, influence what is going on in their club. The real victims are the fans, players and staff of other clubs who are cheated out of success by those who go into debt to buy success on the park. Last season, had Dundee not hit the self destruct button, then they may well have held on to pip us for promotion. The increased revenue SPL status would have given them could have meant their gamble paid off as money would have come in to cover the debt. And who would the losers have been? Us, of course. Would we then have been able to bring in the new signings we have and get existing players to extend contracts? How long might we have stayed in the SFL? Having got promotion, things are looking good and folk are even daring to dream that we might be playing in Europe soon. All of that could have been denied us had the Dundee Board's irresponsible gamble of spending money they hadn't got come off. Yes, I feel sorry for the Dundee fans but we have to get the message over that cheating honest clubs out of what is rightly theirs is not acceptable. At the very least, the club should be demoted to the 3rd division and those responsible for the mess be banned from acting in any official capacity in any club afilliated to the SFA.

Here is what happens when women become qualified referee's!! http://www.youtube.c...feature=related Here is what happens when women play the glorious game!! http://www.youtube.c...feature=related Here is what happens when a woman forgets the basic rules of the game!! http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4Ee98vg65eE dougal You're treading a thin line here Dougal and probably going to get a lot of people annoyed with your persistantness towards this stupid ridiculous post that you created. The three links you have posted show nothing more than what also happens in mens football so just because it involves women don't highlight it like some exhibition trying to make out that 'this is what happens when women ......'' I think it's about time the thread was removed or taken down to stop others posting because you clearly are not being objective at all throughout any of this thread and I can see from previous threads there are a few who have been offended by it including me, and yes I am a man not a woman!!!! Jeez your easily offended . Try the Celtic boards where you'll find more easily offended folk .

Here is what happens when women become qualified referee's!! http://www.youtube.c...feature=related Here is what happens when women play the glorious game!! http://www.youtube.c...feature=related Here is what happens when a woman forgets the basic rules of the game!! http://www.youtube.c...h?v=4Ee98vg65eE dougal You're treading a thin line here Dougal and probably going to get a lot of people annoyed with your persistantness towards this stupid ridiculous post that you created. The three links you have posted show nothing more than what also happens in mens football so just because it involves women don't highlight it like some exhibition trying to make out that 'this is what happens when women ......'' I think it's about time the thread was removed or taken down to stop others posting because you clearly are not being objective at all throughout any of this thread and I can see from previous threads there are a few who have been offended by it including me, and yes I am a man not a woman!!!!

Absolutely spot on Scotty. Apart from Esson who has been excellent it's very hard to argue the case for any of our other players.. especially when you see the likes of Murphy & Reynolds from Motherwell being over looked after 2 successful seasons in the SPL. Last night was the oppertunity to give some youth/fringe players a chance and to be fair I thought there was some excellent performances. The midfield excelled, with Bannan & Adams stealing the show, Wilson at the back was solid and could be a future star.... it may have been only the Faroe Islands but we showed against Leichtenstein even small nations can be well organised. What interested me today was reading how Bannan was dropped from Celtic as a lad because he was too small, try telling that to Messi, Iniesta and Xavi. I have a work mate who's son is currently at Celtic and has the same problem, his is likely to be dropped, not because of his talent or ability but because of his height... seems ridiculous. I was glad to show the alternative when you consider Morrison, Shinnie & Ross who have obviously been judged on their talent and nothing else and are now ripping up the SPL... hopefully will soon be in consideration for the full squad and not just the U21s.

I smell...

Third time round - so do I, so I am not even going to bother to reply to the OP on this occasion. You think nothing of it when it happens once and somebody floats a suggestion which is clearly miles out of tune with the vast majority. When it happens a second time, you are tempted to become impatient but do your best to be sympathetic and take the "poor soul,well I suppose there's one born evey minute" line. But when it gets to number three you do realise that such persistent idiocy can only be the result of a wind up! However I have to say that I wasn't too convinced by the suggestion on another similar thread that, partly on the grounds of similarity of name, the wind up merchant was one B Hornell. As I said elsewhere,even in the interests of winding up people on an ICT site, I simply couldn't conceive of BH writing of that club in such positive terms. In particular I think he would rather choke than refer to Inverness Caledonian THISTLE in the first person plural! So what will the next post be from "dougal"? Merge ICT and Ross County and build a new stadium at Tore? I just wonder who it is, though? I don't know how many folks have been on here long enough to remember an absolutely brilliant wind up which went on for ages (something to do with Larsson was it??) and was the work of a certain IHE?

Like i said previously i like to see women at the football and to be honest i know of one or two who are very knowledgeable about our glorious game There is a danger however if too many attend, what we don't want to create is a similar atmosphere too a Take That concert Slightly off topic I notice Inverness play in the top flight of the womens scottish football league are they connected in anyway to ICT? Dougal

I specialise in contoversial topics as the majority on here seem somewhat afraid to do so When you say you were involved in running Caley does this mean collecting the raffle money or cutting up the oranges for half time?? I applaud absolutely everyone who plays his or her part in the running of a football club no matter how small the part is, providing its not to line their own pockets of course

Well said PMF! Heilandee - Haveing a dig at me are we?! At least be open and say it! I'd love to know the answer to this question if you will please, why oh why are you a dundee supporter on an Inverness fans forum? Are you mad!?

Heilandee is officially welcome on our forums. If he werent a DFC supporter - through their good years and bad - I get the feeling he would be an ICT one .... he certainly has a soft spot for us and has added and contributed to hundreds of different discussions over the years .... stop being so parochial 'theweescot' ! Now ... back to the discussion ... I too have no sympathy for Dundee Football Club or for anyone involved in running them into the ground barely seven years after it happened the last time ! I dont care if those involved were directors, officials, or members of Dee4Life who suddenly found themselves at the trough with all the rest, or ones who maybe knew what was going on or what might happen and turned a blind eye to what was staring them in the face ... they are all equally guilty. I also think that some of those who are carping about the 25 point penalty need to 'stfu' and realise that unlike Gretna or Livi, they actually have a chance to avoid relegation and were treated more lightly by the beaks than either of the aforementioned teams (probably because of the timing if nothing else). However, the ones i DO feel sorry for are the normal, genuine fans who are merely supporters of the team with no power, influence or arrogant attitudes - like Heilandee - as it is them who would suffer the worst if DFC went the way of Gretna. I would never gloat about the demise of any team - not even County or Livi - as virtually any football team in Scotland is only but a short distance away from that self same abyss !!!!!

Got to admit i'm pleasantly surprised regarding the amount of women that attend the Caledonian stadium, i sit in the main stand normally and around about me there are usually quite a few, one or two are even quite pleasing on the eye Before the snipers start firing i'm by no way saying this is a bad thing because i think it important the club welcomes everyone through the turnstyles despite the odd cringeworthy shout Having said all that my partner hates football and the only time she's being in the stadium was for Elton John & Rod Stewart You have to ask though do the majority really understand the game and its rules Have ICT always had a large following of the female persuasion? Dougal

Here is what happens when women become qualified referee's!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADXWtg_AAdI&feature=related Here is what happens when women play the glorious game!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMAtxuCpsMU&feature=related Here is what happens when a woman forgets the basic rules of the game!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ee98vg65eE dougal

CaleyD, well bl**dy said! Heilanddee, what to say! well i think you're a dafty for continueing to do work for any company who have been in admin and esp daft for giveing them any credit! On the subject of dundee, what went wrong if the fans "took every step avalible to them in the firm belief this would prevent any repition of the financial missmanagment of the previous regime?" "26% shareholding was the figure deemed nessasry to prevent a single investor takeing controll", clearly it wasn't! Kepp the jokes coming Harry! My link SFA's joke of the year award gose to.............! HA!

An agent doing his best for his client !!! Whatever next ?