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Thought we had an ok game considering the way Hamilton, once again, showed up to play in the expected game killing manner. I really do wonder how any group of players can go out there and do themselves such a disservice by diving, tugging/pulling/holding, tripping and climbing all over players in the box....it really is quite disgusting, and certainly not professional. It only makes it all the worse that the officials are so incompetent that they are constantly duped by it. Wasn't convinced by the penalty claim and we were denied 2 stone wallers, one involving Foran (I think) having to contend with a face full of elbows from Hamilton defenders clambering all over him and one from the shove in the back. Odhiambo has a decent enough first half but went totally off the boil in the second and was being so easily dispossessed and if not that then passing it to the opposition at every attempt. Although I will admit that whilst I have been critical of Odhiambo in regards to him not chasing, he was at least making some effort in that regard today....even if unsuccessfully. Will be tough for Terry not to give Sanchez a run of starts now, IMO. The lads grabbed his opportunity the last couple of games and shown he can, and will, make a positive contribution when out there. Kudos to Hayes today. He's just back from injury, came on and was given "the treatment" by Hamilton, but he never hid or shirked a single challenge. Duncan.....think the whole dynamic of the team changed when he came on, and changed for the better. He's a bit like that secret ingredient that never appears to do anything in itself, but take it out of the mix and you know instantly it's not there. Not convinced by Duff playing where he is. Can't put my finger on any one reasons why he seems so ineffective when played in the middle, but he is. As I said, don't think we did too bad under the circumstances and if their was to be criticism then it's perhaps the fact that we allowed Hamiltons antics to control the game....just not sure how you go about preventing it though.

We weren't as bad as some would have you believe but still struggle to find a real cutting edge unless Hayes is playing. I thought Sanchez played well and put in a lot of effort. Nick Ross was excellent and I thought Duff played well. Eric really struggled, albeit out of position, and his first touch let him down a lot of the time. I'd start Russell D , we always play better with him in the team and assuming we get some players in I'd send Sutherland out on loan.

Not because he has scored half as many goals but it does put it into perspective. We can't expect to get anymore than 200k for him with 6 months left on his contract. Miller has played and won league titles for the 2 biggest clubs in Scotland, played in the Premiership, played regularly and scored occasionally at International level and in the Champions League and Europa League over the last 10 years. Adam has had one excellent season in Division One and an encouraging start to his first real SPL season. If Miller is worth ?400k with 6 months remaining realistically we'd be doing pretty well to get the rumoured ?100k for him and anything less probably isn't worth selling him for when you consider what he brings to the team (when he gets the service that is).

I have been to quite a few games so far and I have to say the organization of the tournament has been pretty good after previous debacles over the last few domestic seasons with events such as the Emir's Cup Final where having a ticket didn't even ensure you entry to the ground. I think they have learnt from the security, access, crowd control etc from the recent high profile England v Brazil and Argentina v Brazil friendlies and one thing they are good at here is learning quickly how to manage these type of events. Yes - they have the major tennis and golf tournaments established here now but the crowds are not of the same magnitude and not multi-location as with a football event such as a major finals (and yes I know the Asian Cup Finals are not of the same magnitude as a world cup but it gives you an indication of how things will go in 11 years time :biggrin: ). Now these are also the old stadiums which will be basically getting pulled down and rebuilt for the 2022 event so the new stadiums will have even better access and associated facilities (rail transport network to the grounds etc) but the tournament has been good so far and the stadiums (and city wide stadium signage etc) have had the look of what you get at any other major tournament (Euros/World etc). Many of the current stadiums though are pretty modern and would be appreciated by many a SPL club. When it comes to the World Cup there will be issues with having so many fans in the country at the same time etc but from a basic match organization stance they are on the right track. And on the subject of the weather it has been freezing in the evening at some of the matches (and by Qatar standards that means fleece and scarf weather) and for the last two days we have had torrential rain so there is a lot of flooding around the country - I guess it is just something else that Herr Beckenbaur et al didn't think about when they said that you can just switch the tournament to winter (i.e. January). The opening events of the Asian Games in 2006 were a bit of a wash out due to the bad weather so yes it can reach 50 deg C here in the summer but there also problems with playing a tournament in January. Anyway onto the football - after an opening game defeat to Uzbekistan Qatar have beaten China 2-0 and Kuwait 3-0 to progress to a QF game against Japan. Last night both Australia and South Korea progressed to the QFs also and the weekends games at Al Gharafa between the two teams was a 1-1 draw and not a bad match with the South Koreans looking like a fairly decent team. Latest Tables are located here: Asian Cup (AFC) Website

"It was good to see Jonny back in action," said Butcher. "It was a bonus, really, him coming on." So why did he only get ten minutes? Brining him back slowly. Don't want him to get injured again when he's just back.

Sanchez was great today, our best player. He kept looking to get on the ball and put in a real shift. He deserved his goal. I'm so pleased for the guy, considering he has been warming the bench all year. Pass marks too for Nick Ross, Esson and for Duncan and Hayes when they came on. Shinnie really struggled in the first half but was much better after the break. He got f-all in terms of help from Foran defensively. As stated by many folk, Odhiambo had a mare - I think he's aware of the crowd getting on his back, it seems his best performances are away from home where he doesn't get a slagging. Whilst I agree with CaleyD that Hamilton stretch the rules to breaking point, I would note that Innes also has the full range of shirt tugs, nudges and body-checks, and he keeps having to use them when (as is often) he gets caught for pace. I'm not a fan - I would have Rossco in the centre, Duff back at right back where he was playing well earlier this season, and Duncan in the centre of midfield. Has the time come for us to ditch 4-2-3-1? Against Hamilton, St. Mirren and Killie here we have looked light in midfield and struggled because of it. That said, changing to a 4-3-2-1 or 4-3-3 potentially means no place for Sanchez, I guess. Like the St. Mirren and St. Johnstone games, today could have gone either way - we lost those two and today we drew. On another day Duncan would have scored late on and we would have nicked it. C'est la vie.

Poor today, but Hamilton do seem to bring it out in us. I feel sorry for their *very few* fans having to watch that team perform every week. Imrie was dragging them along with him, if they didn't have him they would be almost certainties for relegation. Odi started well but faded badly. One mistake and he just falls apart. Sanchez was much better in midfield than I thought he would be, held onto the ball and looked for a simple pass. Foran didn't stay out wide at all and spent more time following Imrie around. Rooney was terrible but was never going to win anything against Mensing. The Accies were ok, they had the better chances in the second half, but they always seem to bring out the complacency in the team. And of course they had their 12th man, the referee. At one point in the second half, after Sutherland had sclaffed the ball out for a blatant goal kick and he pointed for a corner, everyone in the north stand was just laughing at him. Of course then he knew he'd made a mistake, and immediately blew for a free-kick for shirt tugging when the corner was taken (no sign of that either). Get a feeling that even if Roscoe had bulleted it in he would have whistled.

I agree. Definitely prefer Duff playing in defence and Russell needs to start.

We were discussin how odd it is with Duff. He is in general technically superior to most of our central midfielders, is cool under pressure and then........ he seems to pass it badly, take one touch too many or otherwise make the wrong decision. I agree that the performance was not too bad, other than giving away a very soft goal. I have to say from where I sat I thought it was a penalty. However the penalty taker is not allowed to break his run any more and the fact that Esson was thrown by this showed the shocking standard of the refereeing today. Pass marks for Ross (centre midfield is definately his best position - although shooting practice required), Shanchez, Shinnie (apart from a 10 min spell where he lost his way a bit). Rooney's impact was noticeable once he left when suddenly the central pair from Hamilton started looking much more comfortable. What is going on with Foran. For the last while he looks a fraction of the player we know he is. We also need a new right back (no disrespect to Tokely but his best position is now centre-half) Duncan showed why he should be playing when he came on. Not confident for Wednesday if we do not get 11 players all on form. Unless there is an improvement at home I suspect crowds will continue to dwindle.

Another draw ...W're lucky teams around us are also drawing... Think that was Adam's last game, he's not in it at all... Was good to see Hayes having a go and I'm looking forward to seeing Tade playing along side him

Hayes looked very fit to me when he came on with about 10 minutes to go, which kind of begged the question as to why he couldn't have been brought on with 30 minutes to go. In fact he looked so good I wondered why Terry didn't see fit to letting him start the game. Duncan also made a decent impact when he came on - again shouldn't he have started the game? Rooney was very disappointing - still a good player, but his form has dipped by around 50% ever since the transfer speculation started. He definitely needs to sign that contract and give himself at least 1 more year here. All in all I thought a draw today was probably a fair result - Hamilton played very well, and do not look anything like a bottom of the table team.

More grim viewing for the home fans at TCS. Thought we probably edged the first half but the timing of the penalty was a real blow. Will be interested to see it on the hilights as it looked like a soft decision and the Hamilton players in general love a dive. Hamilton were slightly the better team in the second half and one of the Jedward twins had a great chance to sneak the win. Hopefully Butcher will finally drop Odiambho from the starting lineup as he is a liability and Duff can join him in the stand as well as he's a waste of space, surely Duncan did more than enough today to earn his place back Positives, hmmmm....Hayes got a wee run out and we didn't lose & that's about it

Don, that's a magnificent post. You should apply to become Tel's Andy Coulson... However, one question I would ask Doncaster is this: "Name all of the teams who went into administration trying desperately to cling onto their place at the top ten table the last time this experiment was played out because history suggests it is a failed business model..." Also... "I note that you oversaw (as Chief Executive) Norwich City's promotion to the Premier League in 2004/05 but fecked off a few years later when your business model failed and the club was relegated into the third tier of English football. Mr Doncaster, you are a solicitor by trade, so why don't you concentrate on drawing up a meaningful contract with your customers instead of chumming up with your corporate spin doctors."

Hibs sounds like a demotion! He should aspire to go to a championship side of a club abroad. I feel that hibs are falling apart!

I would start with asking him to produce the facts and figures to back his financial claims because from what I can gather nothing adds up........ TV Money Claims clubs would lose £1 Million a year from TV/Gate if we increase league size - For a start, half (or more) of the clubs aren't actually making £1 Million a year from TV, so how can they lose it? SPL have a 5 year deal worth £65 Million, that's £13 Million a year. OF take a third of that between them and the rest is divided based on league position and number of games they appear in. Anyone in the bottom 6 is unlikely to be taking home £1 Million in TV revenue. What is the new offer being put on the table by SKY-ESPN for a 10 team league and an SPL2? Does an offer actually exist? Why, as the only real bidders in the market place, would SKY-ESPN be offering up more money for less games being broadcast to narrower marketplace and, if fans vote with their feet, to fewer people? Surely they want a product that will sell, and a product that will sell is a product the customers want (see listening to the fans below) Other Money As I understand it, the figures for the money going to an SPL2 have been based on the SFL handing over half their income, but only a third of the teams to the SPL. Has this been agreed to, by who and when? You talk of "significant" reductions in the financial loss from relegation. Given that ICT lost £1.5 Million from it's turnover and other clubs could conceivably suffer larger losses (it;s not a fixed figure, but one based on club size/revenue of which we are amongst the smaller ones), then where is the money to come from to allow you to "significantly" reduce the burden? What's more, if you are taking away 50% of the SFL income in order to bolster the SPL2 then you have a bigger gap between the finances of the SPL2 and the SFL, will the same financial parachutes be on offer there and where is that money to come from? Has any consideration been given to what clubs sponsors & advertisers might think? Are they going to continue to pay what they do to advertise to a narrower market (fewer opposition teams) and potentially smaller crowds if fans vote to go elsewhere through boredom (see listening to the fans below). From there I would then start delving in to some of the other points which seem to have been overlooked or quickly cast over........ What would be the criteria (stadia, USH etc) for SPL2? Any restrictions on entry make the idea of Play-Offs as an additional money spinner absolutely null and void, they also throw the argument for a more competitive setup right out the window as you're taking the deciding factor for progress totally off the park and placing it squarely into the business side of the operation. What would be the criteria (stadia, USH etc) for SPL1? Same paints as above. Following on from the point on qualifying criteria, do you not think that it's damaging enough that we have one point of failure in that regard within the Scottish League System, why would you want to introduce a second? We have all witnessed clubs sending themselves to the wall as a result of speculating on promotion and spending more than they can afford on both the players to achieve that and the infrastructure required to secure entry to the SPL. Many of these clubs suffered during a time when their was far more money in the game than we have at present, so does it not seem like complete folly to be forcing this situation on clubs, especially on clubs far further down the ladder who are even less capable of shouldering the cost in leagues below the SPL where you have stripped out half their income? Where are the side by side comparisons? If you are so adament that 10 teams is the best, then you've surely done your homework on the pro's and con's of all the other league sizes. People aren't stupid, lay it out there for us in black and white and show us, let us understand for ourselves. Perhaps the most obvious question of all, why aren't you listening to the customer? Whilst I appreciate there's a market for selling people what they think they want (gimmicks), such things are generally short lived and football is not the marketplace in which to be peddling such wares (even tacky merchandise in club shops is becoming a thing of the past). In order to develop a long term, fincially stable business then you have to give customers what they want. Where would Ford be today if they had ever stuck to the principle that customers could have any colour they wanted, so long as it is black? We have the exact same situation here where you are telling your customers they can have any size league they want, so long as it's got 10 teams in it. A successful business is one which provides it's customers what it wants, a dead business is one which ignores it's customers and quickly finds they have moved on elsewhere....and in this day and age, where football is already on the verge of pricing itself out of the entertainment industry, it's not going to take much to turn away customers to the point where it becomes unsustainable and the quickest route to that end is not listening. How do your proposals benefit the game as a whole? What does it do to reverse the falling trend of good young Scottish players coming through our systems? If it comes down to a straight up choice between having a system that allows and encourages us to develop our own players, or one which is driven entirely by money, then I know where my vote would lie. Better to have a bit less money and see it being spent developing players in Scotland, than have more money and see it all being spent abroad. I appreciate the above is probably a waste of breath as we're all preaching to the converted on here, but I do intend to do what I can to push these, and any other questions that people come up with, through the channels where they can be collated with those of other fans and hopefully find their way to where they need to be and are being asked by someone with the balls to demand full and proper answers.

Why, and how the hell can you possibly lose 5-0 against Wolves?? Useless, completely and utterly useless. :tongue:

Odi has to goo. He's absaloutly pish. He's got a touch like a baby elephant and his passing is dire. How he gets a start is beyond me

1-1......Im sorry....this pathetic home form is not acceptable. We are lucky ICT went on a once in a generation run away from home, coz i think we found ourselves in a artificially high league position due to that run. I worked out...we have taken 8 pts in the last 30. That is worrying form! And this is by no way me having a bitch at the management, am just having my say!

How many goals has Rooney scored this season and how many of those have been penalties?

Heard a nice one today. Apparently Aston Villa are changing their strip to pink and blue now that their forward line is Young and Bent!

We could sign a few fijian rugby players and play them in defence since they are big and fast...

what is wrong with rossco, duncan and foran? (assuming rooney has left) IMO Rossco has been our best defender this year, we rarely win if russell isn't playing and foran is needed for winning headers and he makes some superb passes roscoe will be another year older, getting close to his sell by date. duncan has been there too long foran was a good player for us but all he seems to do now is stand around and moan at the younger players

He's nae in it anymore and seems like he's no bothared! I didn't think I'd ever say this but I'm kinda glad he's going.

terrible game, two very poor sides. stone wall penalty, munro i think had the ball in the box could have done 10 keepy ups( if he can do that many) and still taken time to clear, decides to play a one touch pass out wide, punts straight to a hamilton player, he puts ball in box ---- penalty. same old story cannot keep ball for more than 3 passes before conceding possesion. thought sanchez only decent player until intro of hayes. one run shows we are a one man team and why we can't win without him. definately man of the match for that one run alone, thats how bad the rest are. memo to terry ship odiambo, sutherland, innes 2nd memo to terry team for next season esson new player munro( if we can't get someone else) new player shinnie HAYES new player new player ross new player new player