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Russell Duncan

I dont like the old firm. I didnt like Graeme Souness because he was a vicious ned with a suntan. I dont like Neil Lennon because he is a cheating ned without a suntan. Whats the difference. Say one of those and people tend to agree, say the other and you are a sectarian bigot. I liked Martin O Neill, and I liked Walter Smith, but they both comanded respect, even if they showed their stirring passion for their chosen team. My parentage is one half Western Isles protestant, the other half Irish Catholic, which has left me with just a moral compass, which is very very rarely wrong. The first two named would argue with their shadow, and aquired very little respect from their opponents, and wrong adoration from their followers. What is worrying is that when either half of the old firm have such a strong character in charge, they bring such a negativety to the table in some ways. However, Souness blew away the protestant only bile that reeked from the blue side and outed many radicals, which was a positive that they have thankfully ( as a team eradicated, but not clearly as the fans culture ). Maybe this is the point where Neil Lennon outs the fans culture, so it does become a socially unacceptable disease to despize because of religion in Scotland. People are prepared to grass up drink drivers these days, and it is now looked upon as being a shamefull thing. Hopefully we are at the tip of the iceberg regarding Rangers/Celtics and apparently the rest of Scotlands shame in religion. Although he is a difficult to like character, Neil Lennon, we may look back in 20 years time and see this as the beginning of the end of this rotten corpse that is sectarianism. But I fear it is just going to open up old wounds. The oh so brilliant best fans in the world were so clearly chanting IRA tunes at the Hearts game the other week. Hopefully we dont take that dark dark road again, because it spoils it for the rest of us. Start by banning the Union Jack and the Tri-colour at games. They are Scottish teams playing in the Scottish league.

In your opinion, who is ICT's most Underated player of all time? As a converse thread to that started by SMEE, who is the most underated player of all time. I will kick off by selecting Russell, who up until the last 12 months was slated by many in spite of being a key player.

Zadi (*ducks to avoid flak*), was booed into a nervous reck, but when he was good, he was pretty good. Only 'hing was though, when he was nervous, he was the dictionary definition of a bomb scare. If we were more patient with him, I think he would have a been rated. This hurts me to say it, it really does, but I have to. dougie Imrie was pretty good, and sometimes I hink his attacking aggression wouldn't do any harm in the current team...... I'm of to burn my clothes and shower in bleach.

To be honest, I've seen Jamie play a few times this season for elgin and he has been rank, not near as good as a player before his injury

I will put my neck on the chopping block and say adam rooney.........yes, adam rooney. When he first arrived he was not getting regular games and barrowman was getting the nod ahead of him. I always said around this time that rooney always looked much sharper infront of goal when ever he came on and deserved a start. People were not sure on adam but i always thought he would be very good and i was right.

I think it's a big gamble letting 2 of our more experienced players go. These guys know what it takes to beat either of the old firm teams. They have seen it and done it on a few occasions. Younger more inexperienced players may not have that mentality and may freeze on the big stage. I hope not. In my view you cant beat having an old head or two in the team to guide the younger lads.

Lots of things Lennon has said and done make people dislike him strongly and stir up sectarian rivalries, but nothing Lennon has ever said or done justifies the threats and abuse he and his family have faced. But the real culprits here are not Lennon or those who over-react to his odious remarks and actions. The real culprits are Celtic FC who continue to employ Lennon . Celtic are supposed to be signed up to stamping out bigotry from football but their continuing support for Lennon allows and encourages these tensions to simmer and boil over. All the debate about the rise in sectarianism in football would not be happening if Celtic had not employed Lennon in the first place or had dispensed with his services as soon as his behaviour showed he is not fit to manage a football club.

With Russell Duncan leaving, there's a spare place in our midfield and I'm this guy could fillet.

Adams is a BAWBAG.....that is all

Its a hard one ..... and i tend to agree with MabawswaRitchie. If we had released 8 players instead of 10 and retained Grant/Russell there would be little or no outcry as they would all have been expected, including Roy and Golly who, great servants though they have been, know themselves that they are both getting on. Personally, I disagree with the idea of letting Grant and Russell go. I think truly good teams always have a blend of youth and experience and these two players would give us a lot of that experience. Both are barely 30, both can easily contribute to ICT for a few more years, and both may still be better than what we end up replacing them with. However, its the manager's choice, and none of us are party to the manager's plans just yet, or who he has seen, scouted, or may have made an offer to, so if we have faith in him, then we have to trust him...... despite the fact that losing two such long serving stalwarts sticks in the throat a bit !

You're missing the point....these things do not happen for NO reason. We may not agree with or accept that the reasons are any justification, but it doesn't mean they are not the reasons, or part of the reason. My, or anyone elses, recognising or citing something as a reason does not automatically mean we are seeking to offer justification and it certainly does not make us sectarian or bigoted. I've posted no such thing. I agree, but in dealing with the issue you can't simple sweep the fact that Lennon incites opposition fans under the carpet with the excuse that "he doesn't deserve what is happening to him". Of course he doesn't deserve it, but that doesn't mean he's not adding to the problem with the way he himself acts. You can't say the actions of others are not justified based on his behaviour and then justify what he does by saying it's because of what he is/has been subjected too....or worse, just ignore his actions altogether. Of course it's cause for his abuse, whether you think it justified or not. The cause/reason lies in the mind of the person committing the act. Lennon is being "abused" for more reasons than his religion or the club he manages...I've given him pelters on several occasions (as have many on here, including some of those berating others for it) but it had nothing to do with religion or him being a Celtic player/manager....but the way the whole thing is being handled, everyone is being shoved into the one "you're sectarian/bigoted" pigeon hole....that does nothing to deal with the problem, in fact in only serves to piss off many of the people you want/need on side in dealing with it when you wrongly categorise them along with the others. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that ICT fans who give him a bit of stick because of his past antics fall anywhere close to being in the same category as those who physically attack him or send him letter bombs/bullets.....but that's how your point is coming across.

mccann and duncan's at tannadice were worthy of a place i think.

Haha that is said with tounge in cheek right? surely no one can actually believe that he is a good coach/assistant manager or manager...just a man with an over inflated ego who thinks he is a lot better than he is would be my summary of Brewster Not really. Brewster had many flaws but he was one of the best we've ever had here in terms of keeping the players fit. Folks like Barry Wilson shed weight through Brewsters training sessions. So as long as he is not top dog in a managerial team i think you at least have yourself a good coach in the ranks. He just dosent have the charisma or man managment skills for a top job.

Adam Rooney obviously. OK so he's got a couple of goals (lucky deflections for the most part!) his lack of fitness and persistent injuries meant he was always unlikely to repay TB's faith in him. Yet for some reason the fans adored him for the first-half against Dundee United in this season's opener. Downhill all the way from then eh Adam? Any prospective new employer would be a fool to take a risk on the guy...but with 3 more years hard work in the highlands under the watchful stewardship of Terry & Mo, who knows, maybe he could make an impact.

As fans we've always asked that the club be ambitious. Maybe this is the price we have to pay for that ambition and only time will tell whether or not it's worth the cost. As much as we may disagree with the method, tinkering year on year has achieved little more than the status quo...do we just want the same thing year on year? Should we just accept that we are a lower end SPL team which occasionally gets the honour of being "the best of the rest" in a good season and relegation in a bad one? I go through phases of fear and excitement. Fear that it could all go tits up, and excitement at the prospect of Butcher getting it right and what that might deliver. Not necessarily next season, but for the longer term future of ICT. Aside from that, my biggest fear is that we as fans may lose patience too quickly if we don't see instant results at the start of the new season and we get calls for sackings in September, or something equally ridiculous.

Completely disagree with a couple of the comments made about senior fans. Despite CaleyD stating, quite correctly that over 60s don't have a monopoly in supporting years at ICT, they have probably contributed loyally throughout many years to both of the clubs from which ICT was formed. If we hadn't supported our teams, then ICT would not exist. We have earned our spurs and do deserve age reductions. Thanks too for the ill thought out comment about senior folk getting it all. Apparently all our mortgages are paid off, kids flown the nest and no longer relying on us......dream on...this will all come to you someday soon, and it ain't like that. Of course they deserve discounts, most have worked for over 40 years and contributed huge amounts to the economy. By the way do you want to work until your 75? I doubt it. When Government recognise that 60 is the time to give free bus passes and other entertainment recognises 60 as concession time then so should ICT.

That'll be number 18, Akpo Sodje (definitely not 16 - Lewis [stevenson] has far too much class.) Sodje was in our line-up the last time both sides met at Easter Road. Can't recall if there was anything in that game that might have sparked something between the two, but that's the only previous time they'd have come up against one another. That's a fair understatement there! You're absolutely correct though, and while we do desperately need that shake up, I still have serious doubts as to whether we have the correct manager in place to implement it as required. I thank heavens for that purple patch over February/March, as otherwise, I'm in no doubt we'd currently be bound for the first division. It has been a truly horrific season. You were very deserved winners, yet again, last night. Mr Butcher is surely in with a very good shout for another 'manager of the month' award now. In a season where my team have left me seriously questioning why I put myself through it every week, your team have been a welcome breath of fresh air to watch (last year likewise) whenever I've made the trip up (not just for Hibs games either!), on the two occasions at Easter Road, and in the televised games I've seen. With any luck I'll manage to take in a couple of your pre-season games when we have nothing going on. I also can't for the life of me understand why Grant Munro is being released. Even if there are financial motives for doing so. He's looked the typical committed, solid yet unspectacular model pro of the ilk that so often prove vital assets to their teams every time I've watched him (has he had a testimonial in his time?) Surely even a one-year extension wouldn't have done any harm? You've got a few talented players on your books at the minute, but what has always come across extremely well to me is their attitudes and worth ethic as a unit. Our pathetic, workshy lot could really do with taking heed of that example. I hope you manage to finish off your season on a high at Hamilton on Saturday and good luck in advance for 2011-2012. All the best as ever.

:rotflmao:

Really?

Mark Brown

Excellent post, it is a shame your sentiments end up being wasted after you are seen to admit to hero worshipping the blatent racist that is Morrissey in another thread, even going as far as to state that you covet a piece of his clothing stolen in the 1980's. Pots and kettles spring to mind.

There's a few for me really. Obviously the first one that comes to mind is Niculae. What a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that despite about a month over the turn of the year of 2007 to 2008 where he played fairly well, on the whole he wasn't really that good. At times he would show glimpses of class, but a good chunk of the time he either seemed uninterested, unfit, or simply not that great. Eight SPL goals isn't exactly a good record for an international SPL striker. In fact, that SPL record is only three more than Grant Munro got in all competitions in the season just finished! I certainly wouldn't rate him as high as Rooney or Foran. Another obvious one is Dean McDonald. Loved by some sections of the support for some reason, despite the fact he was pretty terrible. All he did was wave at us! Garry Wood was thought to be the next up and coming player, when in truth, he really wasn't that great. This could be said for Zander Sutherland too. A controversial entry perhaps but Dennis Wyness is his second spell was absolute rubbish. IIRC he got one season a grand total of THREE goals! Getting rid of him was one of the few things Brewster got right! Have to disagree about Phil McGuire and Andy Barrowman though. They were never rated by anybody!