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Please don't stop posting and expressing your views. A forum like this is good to read because people do hold different views and it is good to debate the various issues. There are times when sincerely held views are seen as silly or naive by others and the response is a bit more flippant than you would like and there is some gentle micky taking - hopefully nobody has gone beyond that and been offensive on this thread but that may be a matter of opinion. A forum needs people who are prepared to say what they think and who don't mind when people reply in ways you might not expect. Take Dougal for instance, he has taken more stick than anyone (often unfairly IMHO) but it doesn't stop him making further contributions. To what extent he believes all he writes I neither know nor care. All I know is that this forum would be a poorer place without him. In this case, you are on the receiving end because you have come across as very indignant about something others see as a non issue. I happen to agree that it would be nice if the youngsters wrote a letter but in no way is it bad that they don't. In fact, there is more reason for the youngsters to write a note of thanks to the club for the opportunity they have been given and I wonder how many do that! The club will have helped to make each and every youngster that does not make the grade a better player. What they learn at the club will help them to play at a better standard and enjoy their football more whether it be with a lower league club or just a local Sunday side. I don't think the club has any more obligation to them. I think that is why people felt your earnest sense of injustice was totally OTT and why responses were the way they were. Don't take offence. Keep posting and and give as good as you get. And here's me setting myself up. You probably don't mean a word you say and your real response is summarised by your .

Perhaps a mod would like to move this to the correct location.

How can anybody justify charging these prices for children at a football match? How are kids supposed to be able to afford these prices? And this isn't just at our club I'm talking about all SPL grounds. Also I know there is a family section however this is not always viable for various reasons such as the person taking the child to the game may only wish to sit with his/her mates in the main stand for whatever reason.

Not an error or oversight at all. The point I'm making is that Celtic have reaped the benefits of having a lions share of the income from the league for years. When things were on the up they were happy enough to pedal the line that they were doing most for the "good of the game". Now that things are on the decline, they want to continue in that privileged position, even though they are the ones contributing most to the erse falling out of the game....both in hard number and % terms. The question is...Why, when they continue to receive a disproportionately high % of the finances are they doing least to prevent the decline? Would it not make more sense to divert at least some of those resources towards clubs where the decline is much slower...after all, they are making best use of the little they currently get. Even 3%, which is representative of the drop in Celtics share of the overall attendances for the period, divided up amongst the smaller clubs would give them all an extra couple of hundred thousand. Imagine what someone like ICT, who have actually grown attendances by 7% since getting in to the SPL, could do with that. The impact on Celtic? I doubt they'd notice it, and if they did then tough, they should have been thinking more about putting their success/income/privileged position to better use over the years to prevent/slow the decline they have witnessed.

celticgloryhuntersdesertindroves.com

Just been charged ?2.50 on top of the ?30 for a ticket just because I payed over the phone.a bit over the top I think!

It's still ?20 for a child in North stand and ?16 for non old firm games. That is what away fans have to pay which is a total joke. In the first division we charged away children ?15 where they could get into County for ?3. Even in the stand at the side of the pitch they would charge an under 16 ?4 at the gate where we charged ?15 for behind the goal in the same division. We have some of the worst child prices in the league for pay at the gate.

if your not willing to sit in the north stand and dont want to pay 25 quid in the main stand dont come

What about one of those cards with a built in message. Could have Sorry and Good Luck for the future with a coaching signature - and when you open it it goes - "You're sh** - AAAaahhhhhhhhhhhh"

Before I answer the question on my theory that the OF are dragging us down, I've done a bit more looking at the figures....working from the raw attendance data for the last 10 years and not trying to understand what figures someone else has got and how they arrived at them.<br><br> This table is only for teams who have been a constant presence in the league for all 10 seasons covered...and is probably as honest a representation as you can provide for attendances over the period. Years shown are season end.<br><br> <table border="1" cellpadding="1"> <tr> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td><strong>2002</strong></td> <td><strong>2003</strong></td> <td><strong>2004</strong></td> <td><strong>2005</strong></td> <td><strong>2006</strong></td> <td><strong>2007</strong></td> <td><strong>2008</strong></td> <td><strong>2009</strong></td> <td><strong>2010</strong></td> <td><strong>2011</strong></td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td><strong>Difference</strong></td> <td><strong>% of overall drop</strong></td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Aberdeen </strong></td> <td>266666</td> <td>223721</td> <td>197391</td> <td>244382</td> <td>254553</td> <td>237024</td> <td>239877</td> <td>245650</td> <td>209228</td> <td>173460</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>93206</td> <td>28.54133174</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Celtic </strong></td> <td>1111723</td> <td>1093919</td> <td>1095489</td> <td>1100913</td> <td>1104841</td> <td>1100623</td> <td>1067449</td> <td>1095740</td> <td>866061</td> <td>930395</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>181328</td> <td>55.52585243</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Dundee Utd </strong></td> <td>152134</td> <td>145649</td> <td>148789</td> <td>156007</td> <td>155753</td> <td>135787</td> <td>157532</td> <td>164432</td> <td>149412</td> <td>140391</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>11743</td> <td>3.595915055</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Hearts </strong></td> <td>229523</td> <td>229096</td> <td>226997</td> <td>233176</td> <td>318569</td> <td>321799</td> <td>270815</td> <td>273554</td> <td>275197</td> <td>269506</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>-39983</td> <td>-12.24350436</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Hibernian </strong></td> <td>220163</td> <td>192986</td> <td>167111</td> <td>238244</td> <td>262540</td> <td>277146</td> <td>266069</td> <td>240997</td> <td>231119</td> <td>223360</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>-3197</td> <td>-0.978978151</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Kilmarnock </strong></td> <td>144800</td> <td>140749</td> <td>132357</td> <td>112672</td> <td>134348</td> <td>136149</td> <td>117442</td> <td>108808</td> <td>112461</td> <td>122106</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>22694</td> <td>6.949305651</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Motherwell </strong></td> <td>111694</td> <td>115618</td> <td>118278</td> <td>132244</td> <td>118757</td> <td>111658</td> <td>125377</td> <td>104915</td> <td>95528</td> <td>99838</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>11856</td> <td>3.630517661</td> </tr> <tr> <td><strong>Rangers </strong></td> <td>909711</td> <td>927475</td> <td>930853</td> <td>924848</td> <td>935659</td> <td>949143</td> <td>913723</td> <td>941137</td> <td>903723</td> <td>860793</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>48918</td> <td>14.97955997</td> </tr> <tr> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>3146414</td> <td>3069213</td> <td>3017265</td> <td>3142486</td> <td>3285020</td> <td>3269329</td> <td>3158284</td> <td>3175233</td> <td>2842729</td> <td>2819849</td> <td>&nbsp;</td> <td>326565</td> <td>10.3789584</td> </tr> </table> <br><br> From that we can see that there's been a 326565 drop in bums on seats over the 10 season period (10.38% drop)<br><br> Of that, Celtic are responsible for the lions share at 55.53% followed by Aberdeen at 28.54% and Rangers at 14.98%<br><br> Hearts are up on 10 seasons previous, but you will notice that they are currently on a downward trend. Hibs are the same.<br><br> Kilmarnock and Motherwell are both down, but seems to be signs they are on an upward trend.<br><br> Dundee Utd are probably as stable as you could/would expect allowing for natural fluctuation.<br><br> FWIW, despite a drop during our season leading up to relegation, ICT have shown an increase year on year and last seasons attendance was higher than 2004/05.<br><br> <br><br> On to my comment about "dragging us down".<br><br> There seems to be this mentality among those who move in the upper echelons of the game that Rangers and Celtic are the driving force. Whilst I appreciate the arguments that without them we wouldn't be the draw that we are, that's not the point to be argued. The point to be argued is that the erse is falling out of the game and the largest contributors are the OF (and Aberdeen). Before anyone hits me with the argument that the bigger teams are obviously going to have the biggest impact on the overall picture, look at the figures....whilst most clubs are down 5% to 15% of their own attendances, Celtic are down a whopping 35%...so even when measured against themselves they are the biggest disaster zone in the league....by a country mile!!!<br><br> For years they have commanded a lions share of revenue and it was hard to argue they were due some recognition. Now that things aren't so good, they have to take equal responsibility for the decline and, IMO, are no longer entitled to command the privileged "lions share" they have for too long now. If the smaller clubs have been able to avoid the levels of decline that Celtic have on very meagre budgets, image what they might be able to do if they received an extra ?200k or ?300K as season. An amount that would likely go unnoticed for the OF...and let's face it, the evidence doesn't show they've been using it very well for the "good of the game as a whole".<br><br>That is why I think they are dragging us down.

Only a parent would know how rejection affects their son and maybe even themselves. Good "people skills" has never hurt any employer or club.

So, what would the club write in this letter. Dear Player, It is with regret that we write to inform you that you are just not good enough to progress further within our development system but thanks, all the same, for being involved in our coaching sessions. Yours etc. Personally I think that face to face honesty is a lot better than the words that could be put in any letter.

Having seen the cringeworthy antics of some parents at street league and youth level,some seem to assume if wee Johnny is "training with the Caley/County" they are virtually semi professional and it's merely a matter of time before their wee prodigy is spotted and moved on to greater things, it must come as a great blow to discover the next Dalglish isn't coming from their family!

I'm not. I can't see the Scotland team qualifying for anything for a long time. you seem very pesimistic about most things today

We produced a table like this last season and have been asked to do it again by a few users ..... so here it is. The contents are based on press releases from the club and other media articles over the course of the season that have stated details about our player contracts. We will keep updating this table as we receive signing news .... !!! <BR><BR> <table width=100% border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr bgcolor="#000033"> <td colspan="3"><font color="#FFFFFF">PLAYERS OUT <font size="+2">&rarr;</font></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000000"> <th width="35%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> PLAYER </font></th> <th width="15%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> CONTRACT </font></th> <th scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> STATUS </font></th> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Gil Blumenshtein </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Russell Duncan </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Stuart Golabek </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Chris Hogg </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Chris Innes </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Max Johnson </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Roy McBain </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Grant Munro </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Eric Odhiambo </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Dani Sanchez </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> <font color="#000000">RELEASED</font> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Aaron Doran </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> END OF LOAN </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Alex MacDonald </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> END OF LOAN </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td width="35%"> Kevin McCann </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> END OF LOAN </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td> Adam Rooney </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed for Birmingham (end of contract) </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#FFDFDF"> <td> Stuart Duff </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> offered contract but offer expired without signature </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000033"> <td colspan="3"><font color="#FFFFFF">PLAYERS UNDER CONTRACT <font size="+2">&rarr;</font></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000000"> <th width="35%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> PLAYER </font></th> <th width="15%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> CONTRACT </font></th> <th scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> STATUS </font></th> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td width="35%"> Lee Cox </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"><td width="35%"> Ryan Esson </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">→</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"><td width="35%"> Richie Foran </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td> Kenny Gillet </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td width="35%"> Jonathan Hayes </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td> David Proctor </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td> Ross Tokely </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td> Jonny Tuffey </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"> <td colspan="3"> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#9DFF9D"><td width="35%"> Gavin Morrison </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2012/2013 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#9DFF9D"> <td width="35%"> Liam Polworth </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2012/2013 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#9DFF9D"> <td width="35%"> Nick Ross </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2012/2013 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#9DFF9D"> <td width="35%"> Graeme Shinnie </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2012/2013 </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#9DFF9D"> <td> Shane Sutherland </td> <td> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td> signed until end 2012/2013 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000033"> <td colspan="3"><font color="#FFFFFF">NEW SIGNINGS <font size="+2">&rarr;</font></font></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000000"> <th width="35%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> PLAYER </font></th> <th width="15%" scope="col">&nbsp;</th> <th scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> STATUS </font></th> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td width="35%"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/tansey.jpg" alt="tansey" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Greg Tansey"> Greg Tansey </td> <td width="15%" valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%" valign="top"><p>signed until end 2011/2012 from Stockport County. </p> </td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/tade.jpg" alt="tade" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Gregory Tade"> Gregory Tade </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>signed until end 2011/2012 from Raith Rovers with option for a 2nd year. </p></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/aldred.jpg" alt="aldred" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Tom Aldred"> Tom Aldred </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>Signed on six month loan from Watford. </p></td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/shinnie_a.jpg" alt="shinnie" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Andrew Shinnie"> Andrew Shinnie </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>signed until end 2012/2013</p></td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/meekings.jpg" alt="meekings" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Josh Meekings"> Josh Meekings </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>signed until end 2012/2013</p></td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/doran.jpg" alt="doran" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Aaron Doran"> Aaron Doran </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>signed until end 2012/2013</p></td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#CCFF66"> <td valign="top"><img src="http://caleythistleonline.com/media/images/misc/mckay.jpg" alt="mckay" width="110" height="110" hspace="5" align="left" longdesc="Billy McKay"> Billy McKay </td> <td valign="top"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td valign="top"><p>signed until end 2011/2012</p></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="3">&nbsp;</td> </tr> <tr bgcolor="#000000"><th width="35%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> MANAGEMENT TEAM </font></th> <th width="15%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> CONTRACT </font></th> <th width="50%" scope="col"><font color="#FFFFFF"> STATUS </font></th></tr><tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"><td width="35%"> Terry Butcher </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">→</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr><tr bgcolor="#D2FFD2"><td width="35%"> Maurice Malpas </td> <td width="15%"> <font size="+2">&rarr;</font> </td> <td width="50%"> signed until end 2011/2012 </td> </tr></table>

Foran, Hayes, Duff, Hogg, Black, Morais, Cox, Esson, Dargo, could go back as far as the likes of Wyness. We are great at getting these players sorted out.

Rankin was great at ICT and like many who come up here will be in need of a new lease of life. We also miss a midfielder of his qualities. He was great at getting forward and was a dangerous set piece taker. I'd have him back in a flash. Nish for me could be someone worth looking at too. As mentioned he was always a handful against us and is in need of a fresh start too.

Maybe, but ?12 to sit in the Family Section, an area designed and priced for Children/Families (the clue is in the name), is pretty decent. It's a bit like complaining that First Class cost so much more when you have the option of a cheaper seat in Standard Class which, at the end of the day, serves the same purpose of getting you from point A to point B. Sweep it under the carpet as much as you want but the problem of ripping off the young fans won't suddenly go away ICT should be charging youngsters ?12 no matter where they sit in the ground and I include the south stand too for away supporters Encourage the youngsters not turn them away by inflated ticket prices dougal

Maybe they could send out something like this one from another club.

I'm not. I can't see the Scotland team qualifying for anything for a long time.

Oh dear!!!! As far as I can make out both the above terms have been banned from Pie & Bovril so why not here? Lets hope Alex Salmond and his government eradicate this so called culture problems in the future and make Scotland a more pleasant land to live in dougal

According to Sky News danny is looking for a club to go out on loan to. Could he bolster our defense?

I agree this would have been a far more accurate headline but lets face it journalists are good at twisting headlines From what I hear you weren't too bad at it yourself specifically at the time of the merger dougal

I've been reading Pie & Bovril tonight and the Orcs are livid about the cost of concession tickets for the game on Saturday I've got to admit they do appear hugely excessive, surely the club should be reducing the costs of concession tickets as these are the fans of the future ?25 for a child to sit in the main stand is an absolute disgrace in my book http://ictfc.com/tickets/ticket-prices discuss dougal