As many others will be, i am so incredibly p****d off with our 2nd half performance tday.. I think it was totally unacceptable and we deserve to be at the bottom with a performance like tht. Things need to change, Golobart needs to go, and we NEED to bring in a defender in Jan.

Edited December 10, 201114 yr by madsooz

Consider the bigger picture here. We're working on arguably the smallest budget in the SPL, with crowds of around 3k at each home game. Time for local businesses who do well financially from us being in the SPL to help out and keep us there.

As many others will be, i am so incredibly p****d off with our 2nd half performance tday.. I think it was totally unacceptable and we deserve to be at the bottom with a performance like tht. Things need to change, Golobart needs to go, and we NEED to bring in a defender in Jan.

Madsooz, you are annoying me. Golobart was excellent today, nothing got past the guy apart from the own goal. When you see the highlights and decide that, in fact Hayes and tokes were at fault for the goal and the guy had to go for it, get back to me.

Agree that little got past him but his distribution out of defence was very poor.

You can only distribute effectively when you have players to distribute the ball too. Twice this afternoon Golobart, whilst under pressure, played a ball forward to Lee Cox who missed it because he had his feckin back to the ball!!!!

Rarely post these days but feel obliged as thoroughly disagree. Golobart was imho one of our best players today, solidly cleared everything that came his way throughout the match. I lay blame for Utd's second goal firmly with Davis - they had throw on half way line, he belatedly waved Hayes back to cover right back and surprise - they put ball there and score. What did he think he could do against a throw at half way line that Hayes couldn't? And what could he do at right back that Hayes couldn't - correct, defend. His reaction said it all. His determination to bomb up park at all costs cost us for 3rd too, left us exposed. Top marks for effort, fantastic play to set up opener but lack of discpline defence wise cost us dear. Having said all that, I blame poor management decision to play him there. He wanted to win, sadly it cost us.

Tell you what was disgraceful ... putting on Nick Ross for Shinnie! feckin stupid that was, Foran was PYSH. he should have had the early shower.

Rossco was out of sorts, he got dragged out of position and gave the ball away for their third goal, also our midfield could not cope with their pacy players. best team won but to lose after being 2-0 up hurts.

I'm in shock. Got out of the car at 2-0, a quick peek as I put my phone on charge showed 2-1, and by the time I'd changed for a night out with a crowd consisting largely of Arabs, we were losing. I had to tell an awful lot of people to feck right off in Drouthy's tonight.

Only two consolations:

1) It was an Arab who paid for 95% of tonight.

2) Teaching some Weegies how to speak Dundonian: eg "Eh drapped meh peh, eh'll tell ye eh wisnae happeh, it cost meh a fehver. It lantit on the plitteh an' fell doon the cundie."

This is what I posted on 20/08/2011:

"Being smack back in Pie Eating country and all the in laws being Wigun supporters I have some genuine inside knowledge here - especially from my brother in law who works at the stadium and watches all the reserve games.

Unfortunately he describes Golobart as a skillful, typically Spanish defender who is very strong in the air and likes to play football from the back. He does also describe him as being a bit too cocky at times and prone to have lapses in concentration - and is a far better player when he has more experienced defenders around him. States that he could be deadly from dead ball situations. He has apparently just got into the first team squad due to his performances in training. He stands out in Wigan as he doesnt wears braces or buys his clothes from primark."

My point is did our venerable management team actually have a look at him or was this another "panic" loan. I really have nowt against the lad and he looks the part but is he any different from the pre season description of my brother in law ?

Tell you what is disgraceful but also very revealing - it is the post match comments by Terry.

Here is a wee lesson - just listen to the tone of his voice, "feel" the blame. He continues to try and "blame" the players and is clearly struggling to justify it - he could be coming to his senses - it is the tone and defensiveness of a man who realises that the shitt has hit the fan.

We have fecked this season from the off - Terry and Mo may be realising that they are not SAFE - the transfer window and consistency - for the feckin future - is feckin CRUCIAL.

Davis is the only one that I would go fer a Loan retention on - I would prefer to stay or go down with the likes of Shinnies, Ross, Sutherland and Morrison - which is what we should have done from the off.

Think you are spot on here johndo. For the first time this season really starting to worry about things. Terry having a go at the fans shows how desperate things are becoming.

If anyone has Johndo's number can they give him a call and tell him that Laurence has gained access to his account!!!

Consider the bigger picture here. We're working on arguably the smallest budget in the SPL, with crowds of around 3k at each home game. Time for local businesses who do well financially from us being in the SPL to help out and keep us there.

TSNY this is a myth.

As I understand it, the club with the smallest budget in the SPL is Kilmarnock with us, St Johnstone, Dunfermline and St Mirren all around the same level. This comes from a financial controller of one of the other SPL clubs who I know through a family friend. Obviously I can't 100% verify this and neither can he but this was the picture given to me at the start of the season.

I always worry that these kind of posts lead to the usual accusations of - 'the muppets not backing the manager' or 'need business to commit more' when the issue here is clearly the responsibility of the manager and the players the manager chose to employ and dispose of. Nothing else.

As a clear example of this. two of the highest paid players at our club have contributed next to nothing this season and will continue in the same vein for the remainder of the season. Tuffey, as he was never required in the first place and is a ridiculous waste of our limited resource (whilst we hear all the time about Granty's performances at Dingwall surely I'm not the only one to notice the praise that Ike is receiving? An ideal back up keeper when free and for a fraction of the cost) and OTJ who will hardly play a game for us. Once again surely I can't be the only one that wonders why a guy who was earning over ?10k a week and a Welsh international ends up with us? It can only be that no one else was prepared to take the risk. Who is right?

Credit goes to the management and team when the do well. Rightly so. When the opposite happens, so must the blame and responsibility.

Can I ask something which will come across as being really thick? But please bear in mind that I don't see a lot of footie nowadays, and haven't much since the late sixties, bar the odd time I have been able to organise being in the right place at the right time to take in an ICT game/u-19 ICT game.

When I used to stand watching the game from the side of my local Highland League team's dugout in the 1960's and saw the very little of the action I could see from the same level as the players and the dugout, or the marginally better view given by standing on a small rise, none of it did much to let me see the width of the park, far less the length of it. I celebrated lots of Forres Mechanics goals without ever seeing them at all and cursed at a lot of opposing teams goals without ever seeing them either.!

Anyway, I always used to wonder how the management could possibly overview a game, and judge player performance from the kind of limited view I had on the ground....and was always surprised on the very odd occasions, in them days, when managers used to get incandescent on being banished to the stand for some misdemeanor or other.because I always used to think that at least they could see from the stand what was actually happening on the pitch, as opposed to assuming that everybody they couldn't see was sticking to whatever the game plan was......because results very often showed that they could not possibly have been.

And as football has become more technical and tactics have become more pre-planned, I was just wondering if Terry or one of the management team, during games, sits and watches the game from a seat in the stands, with a direct mobile phone or walkie talkie.connection to the dugout so that there is actually somebody who can see what the punter sees...........the shape of the team, the interaction between the team.members.in the various areas etc, the work rate and efficacy of the individuals in the team, how they read the game and how useful their off the ball running is. etc..

And if they don't, why don't they?

Terry stays down in the dugout - presumably for the safety of fans in the main stand who offer "advice".

Walter Smith used to sit in the stand for that very reason. But then, he used to come down for the second half. Supposedly it's to get their point across to the players but they could phone and ask the coaches to do that. I think it's just part and parcel of the passion. They're so desperate to be involved, they need to be as close to being on the pitch as possible.

I must say, I enjoy the whole Martin O'Neill dancing about on the sidelines theatrics. Adds to the game. Steve McLaren was quite happy to sit in the stand under an umbrella but all he did was look foolish. Give me an incompetent but animated manager any day. It's all entertainment after all.

The way I see it is we have a young squad who are gaining in experience. We are off bottom and I can't see us finishing 12th. The team on the park are getting better. We are climbing the table.

I don't think "it's disgraceful" but I do think threads like this contribute nothing, on the contrary they make us look like fans who expect success and bitch or moan about everything if it's not forthcoming. Get a reality check FFS!

I have seen Terry sitting up with the directors quite a few times this season, it would certainly afford him a much better view than from the dugout.

However more often than not he runs down to the dugout when things arent going to well to bark out orders. This seems to be happening earlier and earlier in the games!

Have to agree with many others - Foran was a good player for us last year, but I have not seen him play a decent game this season - yes he is good in the air, but on the ground his distribution is dreadful and I don't know how many times he has had the ball around the edge of the 18 yard box and passed out wide when it would have been worth having a shot at goal.

We are sadly missing someone like Munro in central defence and I didn't think Nick Ross even managed as many as 5 touches of the ball when he came on last Saturday.

I am seriously worried about the chance of us staying up this season - at the moment we must be the clear favourites to go down :-(

On the positive side, Gillet is a good player but the whole team just don't seem to have the right never say die attitude that we used to have - when we lost the first goal against Dundee United, the heads went down and you could just see that we were gouing to throw away another 3 points.

I also think we should give Tuffey a game - Esson was immense last year, but has let in a couple of pretty soft goals recently so I think him and Foran would both benefit from a wee break.

I despair of this I really do. Get this - I do not believe for one minute that Grant Munro would have made one iota of difference to the outcome of games this season unless he had played in all four back line positions (simultaneously) and somehow managed to bolster our midfield at the same time AND provided a commanding presence in goals. Contributing Adam Rooney's predatory instinct would have helped too, but to a lesser degree because we are scoring goals. I'll give you that we need an experienced centre back now that Hogg is injured, but whatever this management team are, I doubt if they are telepathic. The captaincy is the same -what is the most constructive thing that we come up with? dropping Foran and handing the captaincy to Rosscoe. Why? He's lost pace, had the turning circle of the Bismark on saturday and is prone to bookings to the extent that he will probably serve a ban at some point this year. There are better candidates and they don't have to have spent years at the club to qualify. I agree that Butcher has made tactical mistakes this year, and Saturday was the most glaring of them. I think that a bit of humility would have gone a long way there, but what do you expect as a fan? A grovelling apology from the Boss? A guy who has captained club & country in god knows how many finals. Unlikely. Likewise, engaging in angry argument with the paying customer is ill advised, but who tells the boss that when it's obviously born of a passion to see his team do well?

Getting behind this team instead of bitching (and some of it is just that) might be better than the current stuff coming out of the stand.

Think about it.

Is it at all possible that people can come on here, have a vent and a moan quite rightly in some cases and then go to the games and support the team wholeheartedly? I sometimes have a wee gurn on here but it makes not one iota of difference to support of the team on the day.

Players and staff get credit and praise when things are going well, it's hardly surprising that when things ain't going well people will have grievances.

What I can't abide are the 'fans' who boo and give grief to the players at the games, it's counter productive and helps nobody.

You can only distribute effectively when you have players to distribute the ball too. Twice this afternoon Golobart, whilst under pressure, played a ball forward to Lee Cox who missed it because he had his feckin back to the ball!!!!

Whilst I agree that doesn't help the defence to move the ball away from goal I don't think passing it to someone who isn't looking helps matters either. Is there a communication issue there perhaps?

Is it at all possible that people can come on here, have a vent and a moan quite rightly in some cases and then go to the games and support the team wholeheartedly? I sometimes have a wee gurn on here but it makes not one iota of difference to support of the team on the day.

Players and staff get credit and praise when things are going well, it's hardly surprising that when things ain't going well people will have grievances.

What I can't abide are the 'fans' who boo and give grief to the players at the games, it's counter productive and helps nobody.

Spot on - we cant all be boring like the "blinded loyal". Forums are all about differing opinions, debate, constructive criticism and the opportunity to ventilate your emotions and release your frustrations. Get behind the team for the course of the game and/or your attendance at the match and leave the "views" on the performance until you hit the pub and then share them on here.

As far as I am concerned I only shoot from the hip and attempt to provide a rationale for any psoitives or negatives