I could obviously post this in the SACKED thread...but I hate seeing negative thread titles about managers (in capital letters!) so here goes

 

1. So we had a bad run in March...but we had a great run in February; when we were unbeaten, why doesn't that count?, if everytime a club has a bad run they sack the manager that would see a couple of changes every season (like Fulham this season in the EPL)
    
2. Managers have to be allowed to work things through sometimes, getting out of a hole is often more instructive to a manager than a run where nothing goes wrong....sadly this too often isn't allowed to happen (in the EPL especially, yet Norwich and West Ham probably will stay up because they didn't panic and sack the manager)
    
3. Many posters on here have said that Terry Butcher didn't have a plan B..... given that our entire striking option for the last two seasons has been Billy McKay, and the board haven't provided any alternative, and most SPFL clubs know what to expect. Hughes is trying something different, but getting this to work consistently wont happen overnight
    
4. The likes of Marley Watkins and Ryan Christie (and Williams to a lesser extent) are being given their chance under Hughes. In additional Aaron Doran seems to be thriving under Hughes stewardship
    
5. Under Hughes we will surely finish in the top six for a second year running, which I think is a massive achievement. He does seem to have be able to maintain the team spirit.
    
6. We got to the League Cup final, and in my opinion did very well against the club second in the country (in a great run of form), I think Hughes can take some credit for that
    
7. All our key players seem to be very keen to extend their contracts, Vincent in particular was a good result along with Draper...the players must have some faith in Yogi?
    
8. A couple of 0-5 reverses are disappointing, but don't discount the fact we were so close to a Cup Final (does strange things to the mindset of a player), the manager can't do too much if key players who have been playing well all season make a couple of mistakes...it's a long season for a small squad. The same can happen to more fancied teams (Like Arsenal in the EPL, 0-6, 3-6, and a 0-5)
    
9. We won yesterday so surely everything is alright again....but seriously; stability is a good thing for a club to have, and provided the club do something about getting a decent alternative/additional striker to McKay (preferrably one who is taller, and can also hold the ball up) then I think Hughes should be in charge for next season and we will see what he is capable of. We should only consider a change if there is evidence that 'all the wheels have fallen off the cart', and that Yogi has 'lost' the dressing room

There rests the case for the defence, M'lud

Look to me like he is doing a good job and no matter the result next week he has to stay - When he was appointed he was not my first choice but I said give the man time and then make the judgement and right now I am very satisfied

                                              

Here's the news.  At the first time of asking, John Hughes has given us our best ever start to a top flight campaign!

 

Having played every team once, we have 23 points, one more than last year under "Sir" Terry. In both seasons, the GD at this stage is +7, but last year we had scored and conceded 3 more goals. 

 

Two points of note compared to last season:

1) we've achieved this without our captain and (so often) inspirational leader on the pitch.

2) this time last year Billy Mckay had notched 9 goals. This season he has the same tally as the Hibs goalkeeper.

 

On the negative side, this season we were knocked out of the League Cup at the first hurdle, going out tamely to a lower league side. Note also that last year we went on to win all of our games in November.

 

All in all though we are currently in a far better position than most of us would have expected.  Well done Yogi, credit where it's due.

Agree, credit where it's due. I was and remain to some extent doubtful whether he was or is the right man for the job but it's hard to argue with those statistics.

 

I do, however,still have reservations whilst there continue to be significant errors of judgement in big matches such as those that cost us the League Cup final and led to defeat by standing off a mediocre Rangers team that were there for the taking.

 

That said, he has done a good deal better than I expected or his previous record suggested he might and there is good reason why it has been some time since his future at the club has been discussed on these boards. Long may that continue to be the case.

As others have said, credit where it is due.  I always felt he'd be a better manager with a pre-season behind him and there are certainly aspects to his managerial style that are better than Butcher (who I always thought was rather overrated and not the untouchable genius some people made him out to be).  He seems to be a bit more tactically flexible and seems to have more plans about certain scenarios and things like that.  The players also seem far fitter under him.

 

I do wish though that he wouldn't be so conservative for some matches and believed in his players' ability a bit more.  The cup final and the Rangers games were classic examples of this.  Taking the game to two teams who were no great shakes, could have seen a very different outcome.  We don't ever need to "take the sting out of the game" in some matches, we need to grab hold of the game and inflict our style of play onto people in every game.  Bar none.

Edited October 26, 201411 yr by Renegade

I'm a lot more encouraged now than I was at the end of last season although I am still some way from being convinced the Yogi is going to take the team forward. 

 

When he took over we had secured 28 points from 13 games last season and so to match that this season we need to win our next two games, one of which is away at Celtic Park.  What that would mean is that after a slump in the latter part of last season, Yogi will have brought the team back up to where it was when he took over.  I accept that to achieve that is no mean feat but equally it doesn't necessarily represent progress.

 

Before we get too excited I think we need to bear in mind that we have had a lot going for us this season.  We started the season with a settled side, strengthened with the return of Tansey and the emergence of Christie.  We have been generally injury free - Foran is a long term injury but frankly I can't see him getting in the starting XI if everyone else is fully fit.  Both Motherwell and St Johnstone seem to be shadows of the teams they were last year whilst Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have both been less impressive than we might have expected.  I do worry that our position may flatter to deceive a little.

 

I think Renegade has it spot on when he talks about the need to grab hold of the game every game.  That is what we do best and it is what entertains.  Even in games where we play well (like this Saturday) there are periods when we seem unwilling to move the ball forward and we pass it sideways and backward and finally to Brill.  Yogi has said in the past that the opposition can't score if they can't get the ball.  But equally, we can't score if we don't get the ball in the final quarter and the opposition is less likely to score if it wins possession of the ball in their half of the pitch than in ours.  We need to be putting the sting into the game, not taking it out.  If we do that, this team can be very, very good indeed.

 

I've always said that the time to judge the new manager is at the end of the season and I stick by that.  Looking at the the state of the opposition this year and particularly the slump in the performances of Motherwell and St Johnstone, I think finishing lower than fourth would be disappointing and finishing 7th or below would represent failure.  The team has the ability to finish in the top 3 but that will be dependent on consistently playing to our strengths. 

Some very thoughtful responses, I'm glad I re-ignited the discussion. 

 

Renegade, I understand your comment about not being too conservative , and not 'having to take the sting out of every game' ...I think with the midfield we have, we should be able to exert control more easily this season....If Vincent stays fit and plays in the correct position this will be a more regular event....I guess the match against Celtic will be the litmus test for this. I also think that the development of Christie, Watkins and Doran have given us game changers, which will take the pressure off Billy and he will get back to form pretty soon. Hopefully Ibra will contribute something as well to provide Yogi options

DD...although a very thoughtful response I think you are still being a tiny bit hard on Yogi....in the end you can only beat what is put in front of you....next year we may have a resurgent Hearts and Rangers to contend with....however as this season goes on, if we stay injury free, the likes of the guys I mention above will continue to develop, along with Williams. In terms of whether we can play at a high tempo for more of the game, a bit of me says that a 1-0 win saving energy might be a better season long plan if you see what I mean (so we don't run out of steam), although obviously preferrable to be defending a 2goal lead! Your assessment of what constitutes success is fair...I bet 15years ago the thought of ICT being the third best team in the SPL might have been considered somewhat a pipedream, and arguably, given our finances and crowd pulling potential probably the pinnacle of what we can do. Would we settle for a top six place and another Cup Final, or a top three place? More to the point do we want a chance to play in Europe next season given the likely strength of the SPL. In terms of Yogi's performance is he getting as much, more or less than the other potential contenders who were in the frame for the job last year...who can tell?  Certainly I think no worse (we're 2nd for heavens sake!), and he completed the job of getting us to the League Cup final if not picking the trophy up

I always felt that he should be judged at the turn of the year. So far, he's surpassed my expectations. If we continue in the same vein, I'll happily concede that I got it wrong about Hughes.

Indeed, come Easter, if we're still performing as we are, I'd not be surprised to see the board offering a contract extension to JH.

I'm a lot more encouraged now than I was at the end of last season although I am still some way from being convinced the Yogi is going to take the team forward. 

 

When he took over we had secured 28 points from 13 games last season and so to match that this season we need to win our next two games, one of which is away at Celtic Park.  What that would mean is that after a slump in the latter part of last season, Yogi will have brought the team back up to where it was when he took over.  I accept that to achieve that is no mean feat but equally it doesn't necessarily represent progress.

 

Before we get too excited I think we need to bear in mind that we have had a lot going for us this season.  We started the season with a settled side, strengthened with the return of Tansey and the emergence of Christie.  We have been generally injury free - Foran is a long term injury but frankly I can't see him getting in the starting XI if everyone else is fully fit.  Both Motherwell and St Johnstone seem to be shadows of the teams they were last year whilst Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have both been less impressive than we might have expected.  I do worry that our position may flatter to deceive a little.

 

I think Renegade has it spot on when he talks about the need to grab hold of the game every game.  That is what we do best and it is what entertains.  Even in games where we play well (like this Saturday) there are periods when we seem unwilling to move the ball forward and we pass it sideways and backward and finally to Brill.  Yogi has said in the past that the opposition can't score if they can't get the ball.  But equally, we can't score if we don't get the ball in the final quarter and the opposition is less likely to score if it wins possession of the ball in their half of the pitch than in ours.  We need to be putting the sting into the game, not taking it out.  If we do that, this team can be very, very good indeed.

 

I've always said that the time to judge the new manager is at the end of the season and I stick by that.  Looking at the the state of the opposition this year and particularly the slump in the performances of Motherwell and St Johnstone, I think finishing lower than fourth would be disappointing and finishing 7th or below would represent failure.  The team has the ability to finish in the top 3 but that will be dependent on consistently playing to our strengths. 

Hard to disagree with any of that.

Well well I am glad you are all so generous with your comments on our manager's and our Team's performance.

 

Remind me please is this Inverness C T the richest club and the highest paid squad in Europe? United Kingdom ? Scotland?

 

I would ask you to reassess your thoughts and opinions with a little more reality in mind.

 

Yogi has surpassed your expectations already, the Squad, which has been held together, is playing their most attractive football ever, obviously enjoying the camaraderie which has been built up and yet still learning and building successfully on the tactical side.

 

Perfection ( which you appear to expect ) is difficult to achieve and takes a very long hard struggle and cannot be rushed, we may not even reach it, has any team ever done so?  What has been done up 'till now has been excellent and deserves a bit more than some reserved comments.

Fortunately our manager and players are savvy enough to know themselves about errors of judgement, taking hold of every game etc.etc. they don't have to be told by us.

 

Come on lads given our resources, admit it, we are doing extremely well. Yogi has set his pace for progression, accept it and enjoy our Club's achievements and how they are getting there.

Were you at the County match?  The first half was one of the worst displays I have seen from an ICT side for many a long year.  The 2nd half was much better and we had a had a thoroughly professional 90 minutes this last Saturday.  Reality is that the side is not playing the most attractive football ever.  It is pretty variable  but has the potential to be the best ever.

 

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Yogi has already surpassed our expectations because he has some way to go before he surpasses mine.  Last season he took over after 13 league games with the team in 2nd place.  In the remaining games our performance slumped and had the earlier form not been so good we would have been firmly in the bottom six.  This season has shown a significant improvement and the side appears to have got back to around the level Yogi inherited it.

 

I don't think anyone on here is saying that as a club we are not punching above our weight and are not delighted that this is the case!  But the thing is that with the wonderful squad we have and with the way so many of the bigger clubs in Scotland are floundering at the moment, we have the opportunity do something really special.  We will probably never have a better chance of finishing in the top 3 than we will this season.  It really is important that we seize this opportunity and I firmly believe this squad is capable of doing so. 

 

My long term expectation of this club is that we might fluctuate between bottom six and Championship level and therefore I am absolutely delighted that we are where we are.  However, reality is also about basing our expectations for this season on the quality of the squad we currently have and not on the level of resources the club has which might dictate the quality of the squad in future years.  Given the talent we have here, the latter part of last season was desperately disappointing.  This season has been much better, but progress needs to continue if Yogi is to be judged a success.  Let's face facts, if the first third of this season had continued in the same vein as the last 2 thirds of last season, people would be clamouring for Yogi's head by now.   He has only sporadically got the best out of this squad and whilst things are undoubtedly improving on the whole (and that's very encouraging), it is far too early to label Yogi as a success. 

It may be your expectation that ICTFC "fluctuates between the bottom six and championship" but it's not the club's or I would suspect, the vast majority of its supporters.

the Squad, which has been held together, is playing their most attractive football ever,

 

Is that an opinion or a statement?  Granted, Hughes has shown at times that he is capable of mixing it up somewhat, but at times this all-out passing to death, isn't attractive at all - it's mind-numbingly boring.  Attractive at times?  Yes.  But the most attractive ever?  Well, considering Steve Paterson's team was once labeled the "most entertaining team in Britain", I have to disagree.

DoofersDad my reply,

 

Firstly no I was not at that particular match, I unfortunately, for reasons I am not prepared to divulge, am not able to attend matches very often, I do attend when possible for me to do so.

 

You don't have to attend every match to make a realistic assessment of what is going on. I can gauge a reasonable amount  of what is happening on the pitch through the media, gleaning information from others and some very useful information on this very forum.

 

As I pointed out this team tactically is still learning, the performance levels are increasing all the time which must be attributed to the coaching being given and the receptiveness of the players. However there are bound to be fluctuations in form due to the many aspects involved in any system of play.

 

I mentioned surpassing expectations based on the original postings of negativisms when it was first announced that John was to be the new manager, some of the comments infuriated me,clamouring for his head before he had demonstrated his worth.  I am normally a fair minded person but one who hates injustice in any form and some of the comments were close to being libellous hence my defence for him at that time.

 

It surprises me that you did not anticipate the fall in form when the change in management happened. This occurs very often under these circumstances, take Man U, or Celtic par example in recent times.  It can sometimes happen that the slump comes the season after the new manager takes charge even though that manager taking over was a huge success at the time. More often than not there is a slump caused by change.

 

You are right, I think with what you say about punching above our weight and our having a wonderful squad, yes we have a chance of accomplishing something quite fantastic this season but so have many other clubs and what we have done so far should be applauded.

 

John's successes so far:-

Keeping the squad together,

The successful learning curve,

Team spirit and morale.

The potential to surpass the achievements of any other manager this club has had.

Our current league position

The way we can play football.

Renegade reply

 

The most attractive football ever at times!!   

Can we all not just enjoy what is happening at a club we all love, i mean at the end of the day a wins a win whoever our manager is everyone likes to win so lets just enjoy it cause who knows what could happen in football, we could become better or we could slip down either way just get behind the club   

I think pre season helped get players used to his style of play so now the question is, can we keep hold of him bearing in mind that Barnsley came in for Tel when we were doing well.

Only club looking for a new manager just now is Burton but lets not worry about this until he is eyed up by clubs.

The man is doing well and long may it continue....as under Butcher the team can still be a little Jekyll and Hyde at times but I think overall the togetherness is even greater under Hughes. Possibly that has a lot more to do with how he treats the players. One thing is for sure he definitely has their backing with how he wants the team to play and everybody has bought into it. I will be interested to see how the team performs in the dreaded post new year period this season but for now long may the current form continue.

Edited October 27, 201411 yr by Tichy_Blacks_Back

DD, your post is most disappointing all things considered. If not completely  depressing it is not exactly uplifting and inspiring coming from a supposed true follower.

 

Why even bother to mention the negative thoughts you may have when the club is joint top of the division and when you can seek out and highlight the positives? Are you still not happy with the progress recently made since the change of management?

 

When will you ever just come out and just  say that J.H is doing a great job, the squad has gelled and the players on the bench are highly trained, probably fit as fiddles and just raring to participate. What on earth more do you expect with such poor crowds and a club with such limited resources?

 

The club seems to have got finances under good control, the team and the Management are all on the same page and the Manager, according to the views of many whiners on here still expressing their reservations , has actually surpassed their expectations. Yet  the latter comments are grudgingly given and instead of being definitive and robust they are faint praise indeed.

 

As for J Hughes ---when I listen to him I relish the fact that he rarely ever says anything negative about his players and his comments are more often constructive than anything else and should be an example to all of us.

I do think that  some of you  should adopt a more positive approach to the efforts of all employed by and at the club. He gets along well with others and FITS IN for goodness sake.

 

The club are doing all sorts of  things behind the scenes to drum up interest that I never knew about, and maybe some of you guys don't either. But they came to my notice recently and I was both surprised and delighted at the several efforts being made to encourage youngsters  to participate in activities that will reflect well on ICT in Inverness and several other dynamic initiatives have also been started and implemented on different levels that are bound to bear fruit as time goes along.

 

What this club and our new Manager needs at this point is absolute support and encouragement from positive actions and comments on all aspects of management. Post # 43, above, by Caley Dawson  highlights this  exactly.

 

When people work hard, try hard and  perform to the best of their ability they deserve praise and encouragement to buoy them up and to allow their internal plans, schemes and initiatives and positive juices to flow unimpeded by worry. 

I could say ask me again after Saturday but he is still tinkering with systems and, on the whole IMHO, has learned from mistakes, at times has even had the guts to admit to that and now appears to be putting systems and selections to suit the opposition. I have been one of the more positive onlookers but I fel that he has actually surpassed my expectations. Many felt that the departure of the Grand Narcissist would lead to a mass player exodus. The fact that it clearly has not is the most positive feedback that could be afforded to the manager of a wee team in an isolated situation, an outfit well short of finances and with an unpredictable fan base.

Exactly, IHE.

 

I hope this is not faint praise to you is it?

With Butcher it was psychotherapy but with Yogi it is just talking football twice a week.

Well said scarlet brilliant post !

I feel that John Hughes has done a good job with us on the basis that we are still maintaining our status as a top six side. In truth Yogi's reign at ICT could have gone horribly wrong for the reasons already stated (Mass exodus, drop in form etc)

In the first few months of his tenure, I wasn't overly keen on the style of play because at times the players seemed quite alienated to the idea of playing in our own half because under Butcher it was attack, attack. I kept saying to myself to wait and see what happens with a proper pre season under his belt and the style of play and absolutely we are seeing the nice, slick football and yes it's very easy on the eye. I personally thought that last Saturday's match was easy on the eyes and quite an enthralling match between two good football teams.

I do also share the thoughts of Renegade regarding the Rangers and Cup Final games. I felt that both Rangers and Aberdeen were there for the taking and if we pressed them more, we could be sitting here as Cup Winners 2014 and still in the cup etc.

Absolutely Yogi deserves all the credit, joint top of the table in October is something to be proud of but for me the most important time period for ICT is the winter period, when we have our annual 'slump', when the weather starts affecting the pitches and of course we don't have a two week break in January so it's going to be intense.

As Yogi says let's roll the sleeves up and have a go at it!

Edited October 27, 201411 yr by ICTRoughi