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Look forward to playing C(o)unty. They can't score, we can't defend, should be interesting :lol: :lol:

Can I just check that you guys are watching the same games as the rest? Majority of people I have spoken to this season are delighted with the way the team is playing and despite yesterdays result are fairly upbeat. What appears to putting more people off than anything else is having to listen to small groups and individuals who seem to think we should be walking every match and are on the players/managers back, moaning, booing or shouting crap at the slightest thing.

I thought this was a matchday thread about the Celtic game, not another rehash of how/ why Munro and Tokely (funny how Russel Duncan never gets a mention now) departed. We were really poor throughout most of the first half. It was clear that our central defence had never played opposition of the quality that they faced on Saturday. Warren maintained that he had never played in a televised game before so it shows the level they have come from and what they need to adapt to. I think that TB plays David Raven from the start because he is a better and faster option in an attacking sense than Meekings. He certainly was in the game at Hearts, which might cover his reasons for being what I could only see as being mildly unchuffed at being subbed. Meekings then comes on to defend a lead/ limit damage. To be fair, in most games this season that's not a bad way to operate. On Saturday, however he was up against wing backs who are both full internationals and he suffered for it. OK we got our two goals when Celtic had fallen into torpor, but we still got them. As a comparison, Celtic's squad is worth at least ten times the value of ours. Their income is in excess of fifty times ours if you include Champions League, which they are certain to qualify for now. In fact, I have heard it said that Wednesday's match against Helsingborgs will earn them more than we will earn in a season. One match! How do we compete with that? The fact that they are not better is illustration that ex-players sometimes don't make good managers, and we will see what happens to Celtic when they face one of the teams who are 5-6 times richer than them (say a Dortmund, or a Lyon or a Valencia - never mind Real, Barca or the Manchester clubs) They will find themselves in exactly the same position as ICT on Saturday. There was no lack of application, effort or heart on Saturday, just a team steamrollered by an opposition they had only ever seen on telly, and the noise that reverberated round the ground to the near silence of the home support? That was the sound of money, nothing else.

the centre back combination that won us our highest ever spl finish, missing out on top 6 by one win. Then butcher decides Munro actually isn't good enough, that's quite silly.

There is much which Butcher has done which I disagree with and one or two things he continues to do which bemuse me. But at the end of the day it is results on the park and the quality of football which determine whether the manager is doing a good job. He took over when we were cast adrift at the bottom of the SPL and whilst we just failed to stay up we ended up running away with the SFL title the following year in some style. Last year was difficult for reasons which are well known and which I won't repeat. We can certainly hope that this season we won't be ravaged by the kind of injuries we had last season and as this is now very much Butcher's team it will be reasonable to judge him on how we do. In looking at that we need to consider the very tight financial constraints he is working with. If we get relegated then it would be reasonable to ask questions but to my mind, if we continue with the more enerprising style of football he has started this season with, then anything between 9th and 11th represents a perfectly adequate performance from the management team and anything above that would be good. I know there are things he has done which have angered many and he hasn't exactly set the heather on fire but based on results to date, there is really no justification for questioning his position. Could somebody else do the job better? Probably - several of them are on this forum, apparently - but it is simply not going to happen. Even if we stay winless till Christmas the Board could not afford the compensation. So like it or not, Terry is staying and there is nothing to do but get behind whichever team he picks - even if you could have picked a better one.

Celtic may have beaten us 4 -2 on the park but their supporters beat us 10 - 0 on the terraces. Surely we must have the worst home fans in the league and you can see how badly it affects the team; they are scared stiff of making mistakes and receiving a torrent of abuse from the so-called support. In the match thread I said I think the players lack confidence and to be honest, a significant part of that is that they are worried about getting abuse when things don't go right. The crowd do precious little to lift the team but plenty to let the team know that they do not meet the fan's often unrealistic expectations. Take two examples from today. One of the guys sat next to me got to his feet after Celtic's 2nd goal and let rip with a tirade of vitriolic abuse aimed at Terry Butcher. When we scored our goals he simply sat in his seat and didn't even clap. He generally mumped and moaned about what was on display and never once as far as I was aware clapped or uttered any words of encouragement. And amongst the general moaning behind me were comments during a passage of play when we were keeping possession well but not making progress. "F***ing do something with it" was the shout from behind. No sooner had that advice been given than Morrison, I think it was, tried to put the ball over the defence for Andrew Shinnie to run on - it nearly came off but was well cut out and the same voice shouts out, "for f***'s sake don't give it away!" Just what do these people want and expect? We're not Barcelona and if we try anything other than the safe ball it will come off less often than it doesn't. Today we were up against the league champions and their side is stuffed with internationals and sometimes balls don't find their intended target because very good defenders read the situation and do their job well. Let's give them credit for that. And let's give our team credit for trying to play football against Celtic rather than being boring like County and simply stopping them playing and having no ambition. Do these people ever stop to think about what the impact is on the players? Presumably not. How do they think that players feel when they hear more noise in shouts of frustration and abuse when they make an error than they hear in applause and shouts of encouragement when they play a 30 yard pass inch perfect to a team mate? Well, it doesn't make them feel confident and appreciated that's for sure. Believe me, I get just as frustrated as anyone, even angry, when players make basic errors but I respond by silently cursing to my self, rolling my eyes or shaking my head or the like - I don't voice my feelings at the player but will make a point of clapping and shouting encouragement when they next get the ball and use it well. This thread is about small crowds and the concern that some folk no longer come to watch the team. To be honest, it would be a good thing if some who still come along on a Saturday afternoon started staying away. That might mean that those who actually support the team might have more of an influence on the mood of the crowd as a whole and the team will respond to a more positive atmosphere in the ground. That in turn might encourage others to start supporting the team and take the place of the moaners. Now I expect there will be those who will have a go at me saying that they pay good money and can expect to see better entertainment and have a right to make their views known. I would agree with that but the way to do that is to express your views on this forum or directly to the club if you are that angry. On match days, the players really need the support and encouragement of the fans and it really makes me angry that so many who turn up seem to do their best to abuse and discourage the team. They fail to understand that far from venting their anger at what they see as the problem, they are actually part of the problem themselves. I think I am right in saying there are signs at the gates referring to "home support". That is for peope who will support the home team, not people who apparently want the home team to win but who abuse rather than support them. Perhaps there should be signs at the gates directing those who are going to shout abuse at the home team to the South Stand because the only team that benefits from the way some of the paying customers in the main and North stands behave is the away team. Apologies for the length of this rant but I really am getting well and truly p***ed off by the behaviour of some of the people who pay to watch our team but who undermine the confidence of the team and ruin the matchday experience for others. By all means criticise the team as much as you want on this forum but for Christ's sake, on a match day give the team what they so desparately need - support! How f***ing difficult is that?

If only our opponents would field a team of cones........

It's a valid tactic to have a big man out wide - Foran was tremendous in this role. The first section of this article is good on the rationale behind having a strong 'targetman' in a wide area - http://soccerlens.com/the-evolution-of-the-target-man/66361/ . Aside from specific tactics, we generally have a front four of McKay, Doran, Shinnie and Shane - the three players aside from Shane are smaller players. Nothing wrong with that but if we were to put Nick Ross (pre-injury) or Conor Pepper in Shane's position we'd have a front four of small, lightweight players. The problem has been how we are playing. Shane has often had the ball feed to him deep, meaning that he hasn't had a chance to make an impact further up the pitch. Even so, he's actually had a few good runs and shots. What we need to do is get the ball to Shane further up the pitch, allow him to attack the full back and put pressure on them. If we were playing further up the pitch then we could provide better crosses and diagonal balls for Shane to attack. Watching on TV on Saturday I thought we sat very, very deep and that isn't the way to beat Celtic, especially if you defend like we did. It also means that the likes of Doran and Sutherland find it difficult to have an impact as they get the ball in dangerous areas - Doran, Shinnie and Shane often had to drop back into our own half to try and get the ball. The best I've seen Shane play (again this was from my armchair, downside of being an exile) was the games against Celtic that we won 3-2 and the defeat last season to Dundee Utd. In the Celtic game, we pressed high up the pitch and Shane absolute beasted Izaguirre, who won player of the year that season. Against United, we were poor but Shane was responsible for most of our good positions and had some success against the United full back. Ultimately, we failed to create enough and were punished by a good United side that night. Sitting too deep and playing too slowly and without dynamism is something we were guilty of on Saturday and it particularly affects Shane. We need whoever is in midfield and central defence next week to push up and our experienced players to help build confidence and attack the opposition, rather than sit off. I do have my doubts about Shane's actual ability but we aren't giving him a platform to perform.

To be quite honest, I think the amount of appearances Butcher (and Malpas's 800 plus for Dundee United) made in the careers is immaterial. You'd think the two of them would know something about coaching defenders, but that seems to be not the case at all. History has shown us as well, that great players usually make poor managers and vice versa and I don't think in this case, it is any different. Munro's distribution (while being poor in previous seasons) had improved dramatically since "losing" the captaincy, but that is not the issue here. Not long before he was punted, Munro was quoted in the press as saying he "never wanted to leave". Who was he replaced with? Tom Aldred - a player who couldn't wait to leave. Butcher punted experienced and dedicated players for duds and loan signings and this practice may well be set to continue, and that surely can only be detrimental to the future of the club.

May also explain, apart from money, why a number of players from last season didn't want to stay.

I happen to agree with Butcher mainly because of his (Munro's) poor distribution skills, and I don't think we've ever replaced Darren Dods as someone to lead the backline. At the end of the day you have to ask youself who knows more about football and defense in particular: Terry Butcher - 500+ senior appearances as centre back including 77 for England, 3 world cup finals etc etc. or all the armchair critics who, frankly, seem to be looking at the past through rose-tinted spectacles.

It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned Munro and Tokely. It was also only a matter of time before someone compared our performance with them over the bridge last week. Can we please GTF with this rubbish and start supporting the team. They (T&M) are gone and they (the tinks) are not us. If you want munro and tokely, begger off over the bridge with them. I for one am staying put and will forever continue to support Inverness Caledonian Thistle through the good and the bad times. The start of yesterdays match was the worst I have seen since we went 4-0 down to Livingston inside 20 minutes in our Second Division Promotion season. The performance was worse than that of Dundee United last term, or indeed since anything of the second Brewster era. Yet I plan to make as many games, home and away, to support the team. I would love to have a season ticket and be there every week. Unfortunately, unforeseen circumstances and expences prevented me from doing so so close to the start of the season. So if you feel you've had enough (already, after 2 games at home) want to hand over yours, feel free to fire it my way. Thanks.

Let me start by saying that in no way is this post a bash at Shane Sutherland, rather at the tactics put in place by the manager. How can Butcher not see that this is not, has not and will not work? It's utterly farcical. Before the start of the season, Butcher was quoted in the media as saying that Sutherland was "the man to replace Hayes" and "had all the attributes to be a great winger". Really, I mean really?! His balance is not the best, he's fairly slow and distribution-wise is very poor. He also has a turning circle akin to a milk float! I can think of no appearances where he's had a good game on the wing and looks more like the quintessential centre forward that he is, who gets into the box and hits the ball first time. That is the way he should be played. I know there's an argument for having an aerial force on the wing, but I've yet to ever see show us that this is part of his game. In closing, I fear that Butcher will ruin this man. It surely can't help his game and will evaporate any confidence he has left. Time to either play him in his natural position up-front or not play him at all. I'm not the only one who thinks this.......am I?

Wow, we lose our first game of the season to the best team in the country and suddenly everythings going wrong.

I'm afraid that while I might hint at what I know (and that's a pretty big hint right there), in this case I have agreed not to go into it too much, but the story will probably come in the end and it IS relevant to the discussion. Whether you'd believe it though, no matter who said it or where came from, is another matter... I know exactly what your talking about Renegade but as you say there's no point of going into as the happy clappers wont have a bad word said about anything Butcher does . Are you two the same person?

Such a spiteful, unreasonable thread. Raven is a class act. He's composed, has good technique and is a slick passer of the ball (something we haven't had at the back since Bobby Mann). He doesn't look fully fit yet IMO. It's early days. Give the man a chance FFS. Our last 2 games have been Hearts away and Celtic at home. Ravens qualities will be more visible in the slower paced games.

I too am worried about the way ICT is heading. There seems to be no long term plan for the club. Not all of these can be traced to Butcher but some of them possibly go above his head. For the second season running we have seen a mass exodus in players. Several of whom were stalwarts at the club and are now doing the job at a decent level. The replacements have been poor, unproven players with a history of injuries who have been punted from club to club. Nobody really knows why some of the players left but such a large proportion of our squad leaving is quite worrying. I disagree with the clubs currant transfer policy of looking for players from the lower realms of English football. I think that if anyone thinks these boys are going to stay at the club long term they are slightly delusional. The players we sign seem to have only come to the club to be put in the shop window. If the team lose and have a bad game, it’s just one less chance for them to earn a move away. I do not believe for a second that all Scottish players are “too expensive”. I am not asking that we sign Steven Fletcher but I think we should be looking at the Scottish lower leagues. You only need to watch Sevco’s games in the SFL3 to see that there are some decent players in their opposition who I feel would be as cheap and more likely to stay with us. How can the club expect fans to care about a team full of strangers who don’t seem to show heart? I felt that this was evident on Saturday when we were four nil down and didn’t seem to care. Unemployment in football is at a high level at the moment and other SPL clubs like St Johnstone, Dundee and Ross County are looking at players like Derek Riordan, Colin Nish etc. We can’t even use the line that we are a “selling club” because we are not selling our players. We are simply allowing them to leave on Bosmans. We got a bit of money for Lee Cox but other than that Rooney and Hayes, our two best players since Butcher became manager (I know Brewster signed the former) left for free. Sides like Falkirk and Dundee United seem to have created a conveyer belt of players who do their bit for the team before being sold to other clubs earning some money. This is such a necessity for clubs in Scotland these days and it is one we are missing out on. I disagree with some of Butcher’s tactics. The way Shane Sutherland is being played is unfair on a young player. The quality of football on show has been pretty poor for a while; there is nothing more frustrating than seeing the ball being hoofed aimlessly up the park or seeing players coming on with three minutes left in a game. He always tries to put a positive spin on poor performances but there is only so much of this I can stomach. What worries me is if we find ourselves at the bottom of the league at Christmas as we were to get rid of Butcher, a new manager won’t be able to bring in players to strengthen the squad. Butcher was able to bring in Odhiambo, Foran etc. Can we afford the compensation? Are him and Mo earning more than previous managers? In the past 18 months we have had little to get excited about, a mass exodus of players and poor performance in cup competitions. If we lose against Arbroath I think my feelings of hopelessness concerning ICT will get worse. I said in the Celtic match day thread that I was beginning to become disillusioned with the club in a way similar to Brewster’s final days. Given the drop in season ticket sales I’m not the only one. I think a change in management may give us a shot in the arm but as long as Butcher is there I will support him and wish him the best of luck, after all he is the man in charge.

I said from what I seen he was awful. And by his standards he was. But that's only half the story. I simply pointed out that essons been poor so far this season and has possibly cost us a couple results. I was simply questioning the mentality of some on here as foran and raven are taking slatings and essons getting off scratch free. If I had it my way everyone would have a win as a team lose as a team mentality, but seems to me certain players are being singled out.

What do you mean by that? Are you saying that I, the Renegade am going out of my way to disagree with you? You stated, despite not being at the game, that Esson was "awful" and changed the goalposts if you will, when I showed you that this was not the case. Please take your negativity elsewhere!

touchy touchy - don't take everything so serious man

We had no heart on Saturday. We were four nil down at one point and didn't seem to show any urgency. I thought the positives were Draper, Pepper and Esson. Of course people are going to mention Tokley, Munro and Duncan because at least they always showed heart. We were appalling in defence. Having watched the highlights of the game on the BBC website (I was there too) King was pretty poor. Given our recent luck with Butcher's signings for some of the boys on the pitch on Saturday the only consequence of losing that game is that they won't earn a move away with that performance. We never used to conceed four goals against the Old Firm at home. I feel that McKay should not be playing up front by himself. He is a player who I admire because he does seem to care, you could see that at Tynecastle. Maybe we should be looking to play Sutherland up there with him or give Oswell a chance. Its clear Sutherland is not the next Johnny Hayes and I hope Butcher realizes this instead of consistently playing the young man in a position that doesnt suit him, all it will do is harm is confidence. As I said on the other thread I think we should be looking to give the likes of Polworth, Laing and Cooper the chance to play against Arbroath. I also feel Pepper has merited a start. I am starting to feel pretty disillusioned with the team. On Saturday it reminded me of the end of the Brewster days a bit. I'm sure I will be accused of being dramatic but at least I'm being honest. I will be furious if we lose against Arbroath. I am not underestimating them as I know they are a quality side with a manager I would gladly see at ICT but I feel a good cup run will give us something to be positive about. Let’s face it we haven't had much in the past year and a half.

As long as the game goes to form we could play without Ryan and see if we can do a bit better at the other end

Good post, but oops!

Spoke to him at the Cov 0 friendly and he was hopeful of a return in 'late Summer'.

Munro and Tokely - give it up they are gone. God what about Bobby Mann or even Mike Noble. We were crap on Saturday. We were as bad against Rangers last season, Rangers in the 5 nil game a few years ago. If you all like to talk history, how about 6 nil at Airdire. Guess what, in most of the games we had the players you crave. We simply didn't press, couldn't pass and were normally 10-15 yards away from Billy McKay. We will play far better and at the end of the day I would rather be upset at a poor SPL performance against the champions than upset at a 1 all draw with Berwick!

I dont know where the stats would come from but I would say that could be pretty feasible considering there cant be a lot of prospects in Dingwall. Would it be surprising to say that half of Forfars st holders may live in Dundee, or perhaps half of Partick thistle fans dont live in Partick. Regarding their stats their usually a bit evasive, their Celtic match was going to be a sellout, then extra tickets were made available on the Celtic website ? followed by extra tickets being made available at the home end??. 6110 was the attendance for their 2nd home game in the SPL v Celtic, which had 10 more supporters than us against Celtic on Saturday and we no longer have the 'SPL for the 1st time' novelty factor. Their first game in the SPL should have been a full house and it wasnt, in our last game of the season in div 1 against ST Johnstone, when we were crowned 1st div champions for the first time, we even completely filled the away end, the unlucky ones who couldnt get in watched the match from the A9. Our first SPL match would have been a sell out too if it wasnt for the fact it was played in Aberdeen. Where does all the panic and worry stem from with regards to Ross County, they had a good season in div 1, like most teams they have carried the confidence and belief through to the SPL. thats about it really and good luck to them while it lasts. I hope they stay in the SPL for as many season as the can but 8 season later, they wont have the same players, will probably have gone through a few managers, the SPL novelty factor will be long gone and the attendances will be lower. In the meantime I wish them well.

Glad to see he is looking another forward option.

Nice to learn that your opinions are becoming humble Dougal! My understanding was the H meant honest. At least I think it did back in my PC gaming days. (PC meaning personal computer, not politically correct!)

We have lost one game, we played poorly yes yes yes. There was little, almost no real encouragement from the fans against the SPL champions and you wonder why the players lost their fire? They must have been bemused by the lack of support, especially too at the abuse thrown at them. How would you feel if you had been on the field experiencing that? probably some of you would have faked injury to get replaced because you certainly are not STAYERS!!! You dont seem to be able to stay loyal, the least bit forgiving, or the least bit patient. Give the Team a chance, you dont have to wear rose coloured specs to see what this Team could be capable of, unless of course you keep wearing dark glasses in a storm. Be prepared to have a feast on your words at the end of this season.

As I stated I just posted what I thought I saw. Wasn't involved so obviously don't know the whole story. However, whether the club like it or not, there is a perception that the home end is treated differently to the away end on certain occasions. Old ladies are not allowed to take their umbrellas in, water is confiscated, small kids are told they have to remain seated etc and we can all see the up the other end the whole support is bouncing and the walkways are nowhere to be seen. Maybe rules are rules but IMHO this is putting folk off coming to certain games. Btw I am not saying that fans are totally blameless or shouldn't take responsibility for themselves.

Don't seem to remember anyone say that apart from the Celtic game. Just searched over the Hearts and the Killie games with quotes such as "King :lol: :lol: Pretty impressed with his defending" and "Warren and King. Both look very solid". One bad performance against the best team in the league doesn't make an awful player. I'd like to see Morrison, Pepper and Oswell get their chance. After all, it's not exactly Champions League. Probably a less counter-attacking line-up. Regeurro Raven (for confidence) - Hogg - Meekings - King (or youth left-back - can't exhaust G.Shinnie) Polworth - Draper (or Jones if avail.) - Morrison - Pepper Oswell - Sutherland

Is this another reason why folk don't to games any more? One our fans gets ejected for having a smoke whilst at the other end, the septic fans are standing, jumping about and then doing stupid Polish huddle across the whole stand. One rule for one and one for the other.

Didn't see any Celtic fans in the North stand but there were plenty who weren't supporting ICT.

A few younger/less experienced guys out there today who will never have played such a big team as celtic, so obvious there was going to be some nerves. Not helped by the absence of the captain who's job it would have been to calm the nerves and get players settled in to the match quicker. Just another example of how his actions in being red carded have effected us. Yeah, not the best display, but as I said above, think that was down to a lack of leadership on the park. However, don't think it was as bad as some are making out. If this was last years squad then the heads would have gone down after two goals and we'd have shipped 6 or 7. I actually think at two down the team became more determined, and in their efforts to get forward and score we left ourselves open at the back and shipped another two goals. I also do not think we scored because celtic switched off, I don't actually think they did switch off, I just think at 4 goals down there was no reason for us to be nervous any more and we saw ICT doing what they have done in the first three games. Say what you like about the performance, but I do not think it was in any way gutless, pathetic, embarrasing or any of the other things people have called it. We were simply outplayed by a better team for the most part and our guys deserve credit for not giving up and fighting it out to the end. Better to get -2 on the goal difference than -4.

This is the key point. How many Irish people would vote to rejoin the union? How many Jamaicans would want to be ruled again by their colonial masters? The sad thing is we, especially Highlanders, have been colonized so successfully that we don't even realize it.

Absolutely. Q: When is a separatist not a separatist? A: When he wants to con people into believing that voting "Yes" isn't really any great deal so he calls it something else. Basically, if the separatist lobby are saying, as above, "there would still be the same links to England as today"... then why bother with this whole pantomime of a referendum? I mean I know there's been the strong suggestion that a separate Scotland would continue with the pound since no one in their right mind would go into the Euro and a separate Scottish Groat would quickly go the way of the Deutschmark in 1923 so that's their independent monetary policy up the spout from the start. That will continue to be governed by the Bank of England as it is now. Then, for instance, I'm also wondering what they are going to do to achieve the worldwide network of embassies and consular services which we currently, as British people, enjoy. Are you REALLY going to have Scottish embassies with a huge picture of Alex Salmond in the front hall in every country in the world as Britain (but without the Salmond pictures - thank goodness!) currently has. And that's just the start but I'll leave the rest to the Better Together campaign's manifesto which will presumably appear at some point during the mindnumbing two years we still have to suffer of this unsettling distraction. For goodness sake, if things are working fine as they have been for 300 plus years as part of a bigger unit, why bother separating off from that simply to run all the risks which come with being a smaller one just to satisfy some kind of political dogma. Talking of that period of history, we frequently and rightly criticise the Orange Lodge for glorifying battles which took place more than 300 years ago. But now we are going to be confronted with a referendum, the timing of which looks suspiciously manpulated to coincide with (among other things) the anniversary of a battle which took place no less than 700 years ago. How simplistic can you get? You know fine well that seperatist has a very negative connotations. And you mock Scottish history while at the same time lauding the shorter British history. Is there any other nation in the world that would vote for their country to be controlled and run by another nation, which in effect is what happens in Scotland. England is the larger and the large will rule the small. Think of it this way. If Scotland was an independent nation today and not mearly 'North Britain' how many Scots would vote yes to join the union. What would be the benifits in that? A minority in parliament of the Scottish vote, the parliament based miles away in another nation, the interests of that nation placed first, hand over all our revenue, including oil and gas, just to receive a smaller percentage of what we generated back to us in nothing more than pocket money. And you would be foolish to believe the tripe of what ever is going to come out of the better together campaign. What have we had already, england bombing scottish airports, William Hague refusing to promote Whisky, taking the pandas back ffs. We were betrayed before and told that Scotland would be like Bangladesh in the 1970's if we ever had the nerve to become independent while at the same time the people telling us this classified the Mcrone report where they withheld the truth to the people.The truth that the uk govt knew that Scotland would be considerably more wealthy and prosperous that the rest of the uk in the event of independence, but what we were told in public is the same lies that people believe today. I even watched a debate programme on devolution from 1997 recently and the arguments against a Scottish 'parliament' were that Scotland would become poorer, all buissness would leave Scotland etc etc doom and gloom. You would think people would get bored of this negative nonsense by now.

I get parcels delivered from Germany every other week and the postal cost is on a par with similar sized packages which I get from within the UK (North and South of the border). I see no reason why we should expect to see a rise in postage costs between Scotland and England should independence be achieved. We're not throwing up any walls/fences and border control and we're not talking about the implementation of any border control or customs services between the countries. Nothing to suggest any need for increased costs for whatever postage/parcel/courier services may be operating on either side of the border. So yeah, I would say that suggestions to the contrary would fall into the category of scaremongering.

Laurence, if the thought of independence is so awful you could always move back to England. I'm English, I like it here and I'm staying.

Why the scaremongering any way, If the Royal Mail is sold off and the business of sending letters, and goods to each other ends, then its the same for everyone. Think of all your competitors in England and Wales who are slashing their wrists right now as all they can think off is this air mail fee they will have to pay for their books to be sent over the border. Time to dominate the scottish market my dear man, concentrate on the opportunities that no Royal Mail will deliver ( no pun intended ). Independence may be the pot of gold you have been waiting on. If it were to ever happen, it will create countless opportunities for people living in Scotland, as all those British companies based elsewhere in the UK will just not have a business or any trade left in Scotland, you could be the new big fish. I can just see it, your new book, Scamazon - how I made my millions, by Laurence

Pass on the extra postal fees, if there are any, to your customers. Your competitors will no doubt face the same price hikes as you, so will be faced with similar decisions. Failing that, absorb the extra charges into your product prices, or spread the increase between the postage and product price rises. So ye can still make your millions and continue to live in Jockland and brighten up everyone's day. Am no Donald Trump, but c'mon TF Laurence, you're the entrepreneur here.

It's nice that you're the only one on here intelligent enough to not be brainwashed by anyone, though maybe "us lot" think there are more important issues at stake than changes to an already flawed postal system. Surely if there are any problems a dynamic entrepreneur would be able to get round them? Great thing is too that if we are unhappy with the place we live in we can always relocate to another place where things are more to our liking, and they charge a few pence less for sending letters.

post stuff abroad and to england and local adresses. Find they arrive on the same day usually, especially Danish and Scandanavian countries similar to Scotland, and it doesnt go by airmail. Post with the Royal Mail to Inverness is crap, used to work for a national company, and post from London and Edinburgh and Dundee to Inverness always took a day longer than to the rest of my team based around the Highlands. Maybe it will be a good thing Royal Mail, UPS or German Post may be better. Never heard complaints about German Post and have relatives in Germany and Denmark.

Didn't realize that scaremongering was a business. Though Canada is a good comparison, given how similar the countries are in terms of size, etc.