Where the feck do we play him and what the feck do we do if he is absent ? I concede that it was a midweek pre-season friendly at Brechin but he got very close to being faultless last nite and looked like he had been playing as a libero in Spaghetti land fer years. Yet we missed his influence in midfield which led to a frustrated Andy Shinnie dropping back to pick up the ball as a "playmaker" type that Foran can also provide. Then we have Shane trying to be transformed in to a Richie clone and poor wee McKay struggling against two defenders bot at least a foot taller and two stone heavier than him without a partners who wins the ball in the air, acts as a holder of the ball and utilises McKay's pace and ensures that he isn't just chasing hoofs or speculative lobs - as a certain Richie Foran can provide. And there was nobody close enuff to Doran to give him a wake up slap on his napper.

So we basically need four Richie Forans - who the feck WAS Ross Tokely

Definatly been our most consistent player in pre season. A true captain. He's been nothing short of brilliant.

If we could clone a load of Forans and put him in all 10 outfield positions the team would be an awful lot better than it currently is.

But crikey, there'd be some almighty rows on the pitch!

Remember this from not so long ago....

http://www.thesun.co....html?print=yes

Give Tel a team of Tokelys

Butcher admits that he has been blown away by Tokely’s commitment since he took over as boss in January.

And he said: “I actually wish I had three Ross Tokelys in the team — one to play right back, one in central defence and another one to go up front.

“Ross is a great club man and as honest as the day is long. He’s a great sort of professional, my type of player.

“Along with the likes of Ryan Esson, Grant Munro and Russell Duncan he is part of the backbone of our team.

Edited July 25, 201213 yr by Tichy_Blacks_Back

watch out Ryan

I would take a team of Tokelys before one of Forans to be honest !

Here we go!

A coupleof iffy performances and thoughts are turning to the past players. Whatever will we do without them ?

Well we had them when they were at their best and there were moans and groans when we had them then. Even though they did give good service to the Club I can't say ICT reached dizzy heights in the SPL or won a lot of silverware. So let's keep them in the past and give the new lads a chance to show what they can do.

We are already seeing a better class of football from them and I'm sure with a ferw testing games under their belts things will gell.

I don't think they are going to let us down that badly that we should be thinking back to those who MIGHT have have brought us greater glory had they still been with us.

Remember they are now past their best. Many of this seasons team are still maturing.

Bring on the games!!!

Where the feck do we play him and what the feck do we do if he is absent ? I concede that it was a midweek pre-season friendly at Brechin but he got very close to being faultless last nite and looked like he had been playing as a libero in Spaghetti land fer years. Yet we missed his influence in midfield which led to a frustrated Andy Shinnie dropping back to pick up the ball as a "playmaker" type that Foran can also provide. Then we have Shane trying to be transformed in to a Richie clone and poor wee McKay struggling against two defenders bot at least a foot taller and two stone heavier than him without a partners who wins the ball in the air, acts as a holder of the ball and utilises McKay's pace and ensures that he isn't just chasing hoofs or speculative lobs - as a certain Richie Foran can provide. And there was nobody close enuff to Doran to give him a wake up slap on his napper.

So we basically need four Richie Forans - who the feck WAS Ross Tokely

Reads the game well but doesn't react quick enough when turned on his right side. Also, a bit slow when trying to make up ground.

Here we go!

A coupleof iffy performances and thoughts are turning to the past players. Whatever will we do without them ?

Well we had them when they were at their best and there were moans and groans when we had them then. Even though they did give good service to the Club I can't say ICT reached dizzy heights in the SPL or won a lot of silverware. So let's keep them in the past and give the new lads a chance to show what they can do.

We are already seeing a better class of football from them and I'm sure with a ferw testing games under their belts things will gell.

I don't think they are going to let us down that badly that we should be thinking back to those who MIGHT have have brought us greater glory had they still been with us.

Remember they are now past their best. Many of this seasons team are still maturing.

Bring on the games!!!

touchy! touchy!

Touchy touchy maybe !

Well it does get a bit wearing harping back to the past all the time ten4,

Onwards and at em I always say.

out of the trenches and into the fray

Perseverence and courage plus

Freshness of pla,y Bring on the new lads the'll win us the day.

Where the feck do we play him and what the feck do we do if he is absent ? I concede that it was a midweek pre-season friendly at Brechin but he got very close to being faultless last nite and looked like he had been playing as a libero in Spaghetti land fer years. Yet we missed his influence in midfield which led to a frustrated Andy Shinnie dropping back to pick up the ball as a "playmaker" type that Foran can also provide. Then we have Shane trying to be transformed in to a Richie clone and poor wee McKay struggling against two defenders bot at least a foot taller and two stone heavier than him without a partners who wins the ball in the air, acts as a holder of the ball and utilises McKay's pace and ensures that he isn't just chasing hoofs or speculative lobs - as a certain Richie Foran can provide. And there was nobody close enuff to Doran to give him a wake up slap on his napper.

So we basically need four Richie Forans - who the feck WAS Ross Tokely

Reads the game well but doesn't react quick enough when turned on his right side. Also, a bit slow when trying to make up ground.

When you are playing as a sweeper your experience, positioning and anticipation can counter that - especially when you do have speed off the mark and/or over ten yards - and his covering at Brechin was mainly for Cooper on his right side. Have to admit that he really surprised me but I was in a poosition behind the goal where i got a real good view of what really was a master class.

The question of where Butcher plays Foran is immaterial if he is constantly suspended. In his post match interview Terry rather dismissed the sending off saying that lack of match practice caused him to miss his timing and he was keen to get stuck in! No Terry! Nice try for the media but this was Foran raging at a decision he did not like and losing the head. Hopefully Terry is raging at Foran behind the scenes and setting him straight.

Last week Foran was absent on suspension and OTJ, another influential midfielder had a rush of blood to the head and saw red. We have a small squad and simply cannot afford to be losing players due to suspension. I would expect that Terry has been speaking to the whole team about the need for discipline and control after OTJ's inexcusable behaviour last week, but what do we get? We get our captain, returning from suspension himself and unable to last 45 minutes before he too gives the team a mountain to climb. It is interesting to reflect that a number of people on this forum were saying that it was indiscipline amongst the team which put them from buying season tickets and to my mind there is no doubt that we would encourage more to attend if the players were better role models.

Defenders of Foran will no doubt say we need a captain to be fired up and to play for the shirt. But that is only one quality needed in a captain. Leadership requires control and that is what Foran lacks. What use is a captain if he is sitting in the dressing room whilst his team are 2 goals and a man down? And that brings me to the question of just how influential a captain is he in the first place? We have had 2 pretty decent performances without him and then he plays for 45 minutes and we go 2 - 0 down. He is absent for the 2nd 45 minutes and we pull the 2 goals back being a man down. It really does beg the question of whether or not he is the best man for the captaincy.

I know that Foran rather divides the fan base and I would have to say that I am really undecided even after all the time he has been with the club. He can be brilliant but at other times he seems to snipe rather than encourage and he has a real weakness in his self control which he has demonstrated spectacularly today. Apart from the captaincy, he also does not score as many goals as he should. Should he remain captain? Should he be in the starting line up at all? To be honest I would have to say "I don't know" to both questions and would be interested to hear what others think.

he also does not score as many goals as he should

He's pretty much been a defence-minded midfielder for the best part of a season. How many goals should he be scoring?

Even before coming to us Foran was hardly a regular scorer (on the pitch).

Having just had a nonsense penalty given against us the probably should have been a foul to us for Zaliukas on Esson. At his sending off, Shinnie had just been fouled, but no decision, play went on and the ball bounced back to Shinnie and hit him on the arm as he was gingerly getting back up, he was still trying to stand when two Hearts players pounced on him, and as the ball broke towards Foran he slid in. It was a sending off, mistimed tackle, but should have been a foul before it got that far.

Terrible ref today, did you see Butcher was escorted up the tunnel at half time, as it looked like he was going to give the ref to the dressing room door treatment.

he also does not score as many goals as he should

He's pretty much been a defence-minded midfielder for the best part of a season. How many goals should he be scoring?

It's only relatively recently that he has been more defence minded. Remember that last season he claimed he was going to fill the void left by Rooney and what did het get? Just a couple of goals if I remember correctly. But the number of goals is really a side issue to the main points about whether he should remain captain or even be in the starting XI at all.

I like Richie Foran, I think he's a great player and is unfairly maligned by a lot of people on here and in our wider fanbase.

BUT

I cannot stand players that do things like he did today. He was raging at the stupid penalty (rightly) and just flew into a stupid tackle in a stupid area of the pitch. Fouls are part of the game, if you are in defensive midfield you need to make tackles and you're going to pick up bookings and perhaps red cards but sometimes they are required. Today was just a nonsense, a tantrum from our captain. Twice in two weeks we've had an experienced player do something reckless and not onlly put the three points at risk but further weaken out squad for upcoming matches. Very poor from Richie.

The question of where Butcher plays Foran is immaterial if he is constantly suspended. In his post match interview Terry rather dismissed the sending off saying that lack of match practice caused him to miss his timing and he was keen to get stuck in! No Terry! Nice try for the media but this was Foran raging at a decision he did not like and losing the head. Hopefully Terry is raging at Foran behind the scenes and setting him straight.

Last week Foran was absent on suspension and OTJ, another influential midfielder had a rush of blood to the head and saw red. We have a small squad and simply cannot afford to be losing players due to suspension. I would expect that Terry has been speaking to the whole team about the need for discipline and control after OTJ's inexcusable behaviour last week, but what do we get? We get our captain, returning from suspension himself and unable to last 45 minutes before he too gives the team a mountain to climb. It is interesting to reflect that a number of people on this forum were saying that it was indiscipline amongst the team which put them from buying season tickets and to my mind there is no doubt that we would encourage more to attend if the players were better role models.

Defenders of Foran will no doubt say we need a captain to be fired up and to play for the shirt. But that is only one quality needed in a captain. Leadership requires control and that is what Foran lacks. What use is a captain if he is sitting in the dressing room whilst his team are 2 goals and a man down? And that brings me to the question of just how influential a captain is he in the first place? We have had 2 pretty decent performances without him and then he plays for 45 minutes and we go 2 - 0 down. He is absent for the 2nd 45 minutes and we pull the 2 goals back being a man down. It really does beg the question of whether or not he is the best man for the captaincy.

I know that Foran rather divides the fan base and I would have to say that I am really undecided even after all the time he has been with the club. He can be brilliant but at other times he seems to snipe rather than encourage and he has a real weakness in his self control which he has demonstrated spectacularly today. Apart from the captaincy, he also does not score as many goals as he should. Should he remain captain? Should he be in the starting line up at all? To be honest I would have to say "I don't know" to both questions and would be interested to hear what others think.

Bit of a moot point tbh. So long as Butcher is the gaffer he will be captain and will be (when he's not suspended/injured) the first name on the team sheet.

Having just had a nonsense penalty given against us the probably should have been a foul to us for Zaliukas on Esson. At his sending off, Shinnie had just been fouled, but no decision, play went on and the ball bounced back to Shinnie and hit him on the arm as he was gingerly getting back up, he was still trying to stand when two Hearts players pounced on him, and as the ball broke towards Foran he slid in. It was a sending off, mistimed tackle, but should have been a foul before it got that far.

Terrible ref today, did you see Butcher was escorted up the tunnel at half time, as it looked like he was going to give the ref to the dressing room door treatment.

You appear to be making excuses for him but my point is that it is precisely in these sort of situations where refs make poor decisions and where opponents commit fouls that a clear head is needed. The captain needs to keep his head and ensure his team mates retain their focus. Today he was a very poor example to his team and it is to their huge credit that they kept their composure and directed their agression constructively in salvaging a draw. I hope Foran has learnt a lot from the youngsters today.

Bit of a moot point tbh. So long as Butcher is the gaffer he will be captain and will be (when he's not suspended/injured) the first name on the team sheet.

You're probably right. Whatever we say is unlikely to change the Manager's view on his favourite player but it's interesting to hear what views others have.

It doesn't matter what Foran does, in Butcher's eyes it seems like he can walk on water. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the relationship between Foran and Butcher makes Brewster and Proctor look like a casual acquaintance!

Edited August 18, 201213 yr by Renegade

Foran was asking for it today. At least twice he threw the ball away when a kick was given against us. And he was giving the ref some serious verbals. Generally behaving like Black at his most petulant. Might be excusable in a young lad but not good enough for a team captain.

Not every mistimed tackle is a sending off and this one was definitely not a bad one. The ref was shocking and people here should be backing Foran up not slating him. Whatever Foran is (an affa moaner) he always gives 100% and is passionate about the club. Given his age he needs a few weeks off in the season to rest so a few red cards aren't the end of the world.

Not every mistimed tackle is a sending off and this one was definitely not a bad one. The ref was shocking and people here should be backing Foran up not slating him. Whatever Foran is (an affa moaner) he always gives 100% and is passionate about the club. Given his age he needs a few weeks off in the season to rest so a few red cards aren't the end of the world.

:blink:

It was his first game back after a suspension and he goes and does it again. Obviously not learnt to shut that mouth then etc etc. This is not the way a captain should behave.

We have a young team however as the captain he should be conducting better and setting a better example..... I'd like to see Andrew Shinnie get the arm band