THE MATCHDAY THREAD Discuss ICT & other games in this thread as they happen Kilmarnock -V- Inverness CT PREVIEW 13th May 2017 @ 3PM, Rugby Park, Kilmarnock Follow us on Twitter Follow us on Facebook Go to the Chatroom Media Coverage   AUDIO COVERAGE BBC Sportsound Open All Mics [UK Only]   LIVE TEXT (ONLINE) ONE Football - APP also available for iPhone/Android/Windows phones Sporting Life BBC    VIDEO SPL YouTube Channel ICT Official YouTube Channel   TEAM LINEUPS TO FOLLOW   Tweets by @ICTFC Tweets by @ICTFC

 

Didnt play anything decent until 2-0 down, when we stopped playing so many long balls. No winger down the right meant McKay was constantly out of position with no cover. Too many long balls out to the left which became predictable. 

Full report 2 morro.  We were second best until they went 2 up, they switched off and we could have scraped a draw. Fisher missed an absolute sitter in the 2nd minute. The rain and wind was against us but we just hoofed. Anier was terrible but Mulraney was just as bad but they were both bypassed. Esson fecked up the 1st goal but the decision to play the hard working Draper up front and playing Fisher wide right was incredibly stupid - and then hooking Draper? !! We fought and gave it our all, except Tansey, but we chopped and changed as usual, never got into a rhythm and at times did not appear to know what we were doing. I blame Maurice Mispass

Heaven help us. Draper up front. FFS

7 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Full report 2 morro.  We were second best until they went 2 up, they switched off and we could have scraped a draw. Fisher missed an absolute sitter in the 2nd minute. The rain and wind was against us but we just hoofed. Anier was terrible but Mulraney was just as bad but they were both bypassed. Esson fecked up the 1st goal but the decision to play the hard working Draper up front and playing Fisher wide right was incredibly stupid - and then hooking Draper? !! We fought and gave it our all, except Tansey, but we chopped and changed as usual, never got into a rhythm and at times did not appear to know what we were doing. I blame Maurice Mispass

Usual - we are where we are because we are what we are!! Deja-vu. 

Agree with Matt above. We were pretty terrible for most of the game, big long balls. It was a blustery day and a plastic pitch - play it on the deck like Killie are doing!

Yes, for the last fifteen minutes there was some urgency and the odd chance might have given us a draw - but why, for much of the previous hour and a bit had many of the players seemed like mildly interested bystanders?

Richie in his after-match comments said the only thing he was unhappy about was the 'schoolboy defending' at the second goal. As I saw it, the second goal was terrific play by the Killie lad. The first goal - that was schoolboy defending.

A sad day. After eight years living in England and getting to as many games as I could, tbis is my first full season as a season ticket holder for some time. What a year I picked!

I've been at all home games except the two against Celtic (holiday and work prevented these) and to a few away ones.

I don't think we are worse than many of the other teams, but we've lacked a consistent plan and line up. It is hard to pick consistent performers, apart from Tremarco and, perhaps, Draper.

We know our strengths (Draper and Tansey bossing midfield) but too often did not build the team around that.

Bringing Billy back should have saved the season, but the service he has had has been limited.

I don't understand why Fisher was frozen out. He is a grafter, and while his finishing is hit and miss, I like his attitude.

Others have failed to perform, or let their heads drop when times have been tough, and decisions have gone against us, but we have a squad that should have been mid-table.

Since the St Johnstone game I have been resigned to our fate, and the loss today probably makes it inevitable. To hear that we only performed when 2-0 down says if all.

I will miss only my third home game next weekend due to family commitments. What I would give for a miracle and a home play off game on the 28th, but I just can't see it.

I will be renewing my season ticket, as I love the club and football, but I fear the worst next season, and just hope we can build a competitive squad that can get us back up.

After two cup finals, two great days out at Hampden, bossing the derbies, a European adventure, albeit brief, this is tough to take, but we must still get behind the team for the last two games and hope for a miracle.

Lets just hope we can bounce back and get more great memories. Yes, we have punched above our weight, and it was great, but we should be a Premiership club.

 

 

Edited May 13, 20178 yr by Robert

The one thing i find most frustrating this season especially of late is when you listen to other spl managers, Commentators and various other media all are saying we are underachieving. Our team in my opinion without a doubt has been in slow decline for a few seasons now. We have lost some real quality players over the last few seasons. I accept that a club of our size is going to struggle to keep quality players when i say that i mean spl quality players. However when you look at the current team there is still a lot of good players that should have been able to put in far better performances over the season than they have done. Management is where we have been let down this season. Some of the performances that i have watched this season is beyond dire. I said a few times this season you could put Lionel Messi in this team and he would struggle to get a goal.  We are a small club that has done some remarkable things over its history. There are many bigger clubs with bigger budgets than ours that have achieved less. Now the Championship is in front of us next season. I know we are not relegated yet but i cant see any hope of us staying up. One of the biggest challenges now lies ahead of us. I think we need to make a big promotion push next season and try and get straight back up. In order to do that we need a new person at the helm to steady the ship and in time get it to make smooth headway. We also need to be very shrewd in the transfer market especially with loans. If we could get some quality loans and make a signing or 2 along the way i think we have a chance of getting of getting back at the first attempt.  

I really can't see us getting back up at the first attempt to be honest - at least not with the current set up anyway. The club needs investment which isn't forthcoming and even after our cup win, which showed the potential of this club, the response was negative. It's a real shame. Some have mentioned that there is still a majority of folk within the city that still haven't got over the merger and refuse to have anything to do with the new club. There may well be an element of truth in this which is really really sad. It was over twenty years ago - get over it.  With this in mind I have this awful feeling we are going to fall even further behind our neighbours and could well end up going part-time and fighting it out with the likes of Elgin City.

And as for Foran's after match comments....I'm gobsmacked. How can you possibly keep praising a side that can't win or defend? 

 

That is ancient history and irrelevant now. Please don't bring up that old nonsense as having anything to do with what is happening now. We have had a bad, ok terrible, season. That doesn't mean everything we have achieved in the past isn't something to be proud of. Take it as an opportunity to have some root and branch reform behind the scenes, bring in a new management team, and there is no reason it won't look a lot better next year. I don't assume we can bounce straight back, but we can build from the rubble of this year, if those in charge take the chance that change always brings.

Edited May 14, 20178 yr by The Long Man

Well I travelled with forlorn hope and a fair degree of trepidation. But that still did not stop me and my 146 compatriots from sitting in the away stand, cheer on the boys and hope for some salvation. My only negative thought at the start was the inclusion of Anier but otherwise I was quite happy with the first team choice. Fisher has deserved his chance and may have been a more polished player if he had been given a run early. He had a clear cut chance in the 2^nd minute, through on goal, 1-1 with McDonald and he totally fecked it up. If he had kept his composure, as he did 69 minutes later then it may have been a different story.

So we have a plastic pitch. We are playing in to the wind and the driving rain. Killie know the surface and they play tippy tappy at the back, use the width, take people on and are patient. Us we hoof at every opportunity. Billy Mckay must wonder what the feck is going on. Anier offers sod all and Mulraney has an off-day but rarely gets a ball at his feet or a pass to run on to. The clear tactic was to feckin hoof it. And for the second time away from home Esson makes the second big error (OK there were 2 errors) of his belated season and gifts the first goal to Longstaffe. Just what we did not need. You could see some heads go down at that time. Have to say that I was really impressed by Frizell, Jones and Wilson. If we had that three playing for us we would have hammered them. But we have Foran and the hoof.

So half time comes along and you think lets have a go. But God lets us down again. The wind dies down, the rain stops and some feckin sunshine comes out. And as if that wasn’t bad enuff we hook Mulraney for Vigurs. We put Draper up front and we switch Fisher to wide right midfield. Yes wide right midfield !! Foran complained about our defending for the second but I thought it was tidy lead up play and a very tidy finish by Jones who had tormented Brad all day long. And guess who had the two long range shots on target – of course – David Raven !!

Anier goes off, 58 minutes too late, and gets replaced by Polworth who never got into the game. Not sure exactly where he was playing though. And then we hook Draper and take on Cole. BUT we put Cole on the left BUT keep Fisher on the wide right and put Mckay up front on his own. We pack feckin midfield with the lackadaisical Vigurs and Tansey with Polworth running around like a headless chicken.

But as the chants against Foran begin to grow we put ourselves back in the game. Great pass from Tansey and Fisher tucks it away very neatly, 69 minutes too late. Lee McCulloch summed it up nicely – “The last 10 minutes were a bit nervy but we got there in the end.” We began to show the desire and fight that we should have been showing for weeks, nay months. No player can be faulted for endeavour in the last 15 minutes. Killie looked shell shocked and took their feet off the pedal. And wee Billy could have got us that desperately needed point with a glorious lob which would have been a goal of the season contender if it went in. We actually started playing football as well. Alas too late.

And Foran summed up the day – “I'm delighted with the players' performance, believe it or not. I told them they should be proud of themselves, how they handled the occasion.” Well he must have just been watching the last fifteen minutes and had forgotten the deplorable first 45. And then "Individual mistakes have cost us again. The only disappointing part is the second goal. Jones has so much space to run at us. It's a set-piece for us, they break and score - that's schoolboy defending but overall we were the far better team and had far better chances.” – DOH – wrong goal – and we deserved a point and that would have been a bit of a robbery. “We didn't get what we deserved and that was the three points, in my mind. We need to cut out the individual mistakes, it's been the story of the season.” – Yes agree about the individual mistakes and add it has been the story of MY season. Some players do NOT play for you. And then he concludes as a modern day Lazarus – “We need help from other clubs now, simple as that. We need to do our business on Wednesday and Saturday. There is still a chance. It is probably a small chance, but there is a chance." – WTF !!

No Smileymometer but here are my conclusions. Esson did OK but that one mistake early doors killed us. Brad was taken apart by Jones, Raven was solid and full of endeavour. Warren was my MOM for clearly giving his all. Laing was quietly effective. Mulraney never got going and Anier never has got going. Draper looked OK in midfield but was lost up front against a very tall Killie central defence. Tansey looks pretty but he is keeping himself for Aberdire. Fisher gave his all but was a fish out of water wide right. Wee Billy never got used and was a waste in the hole role. He is best on the toes of the last defender. Vigurs actually started trying to play football but he is such a lazy *******. Polworth and Cole made no impact. Ah Well it looks like Dumfries will be my ”home” game next season.

IHE it was Vigurs who played in Fisher for the goal. When you see the Esson errors that is actually compounded by Raven dribbling instead of hoofing. I felt Brad was hampered by his silly booking following the tackle on Draper. There were times when both Mulraney and Polworth sat on the deck whinging instead of getting straight back up and winning the ball. Curiously enough a draw would not have helped unless we knew in advance that Hamilton were to lose their final three games. Only our friends over the Bridge can help us now, which seems quite likely given their desire for 7th place. 

So the Dundee game could be our cup final this year. If it is it has to be set up as a win. We have been starting well for some time but failing to capitalise on early chances. If we have not been relegated on Tuesday night, the team to play Dundee will be very interesting. The back five is a fixture. Tansey, Vigurs and possibly Polworth might give us the mobility but not necessarily the fight especially if we go a goal down.  Up front it is likely to be Billy and Fish and if we want someone really hungry, Dean. That said, I can see Draper as Centre Forward with Fisher and McKay supporting him!!

Poor old Yogi is unlikely to be managing a team in the Championship next year after leaving Raith so no banter with him next season.

 

Edited May 14, 20178 yr by CELTIC1CALEY3

1 hour ago, The Long Man said:

That is ancient history and irrelevant now. Please don't bring up that old nonsense as having anything to do with what is happening now. 

I think it's still relevant to the club in general. It is my view that the apathy still exists in the city  

2 hours ago, Gringo said:

I really can't see us getting back up at the first attempt to be honest - at least not with the current set up anyway. The club needs investment which isn't forthcoming and even after our cup win, which showed the potential of this club, the response was negative. It's a real shame. Some have mentioned that there is still a majority of folk within the city that still haven't got over the merger and refuse to have anything to do with the new club. There may well be an element of truth in this which is really really sad. It was over twenty years ago - get over it.  With this in mind I have this awful feeling we are going to fall even further behind our neighbours and could well end up going part-time and fighting it out with the likes of Elgin City.

And as for Foran's after match comments....I'm gobsmacked. How can you possibly keep praising a side that can't win or defend? 

 

Gringo... I'm not going to go back there in detail, but I'm going to have to disagree. To be realistic, there weren't that many in the city who gave a toss one way or another about the merger in the first place. Remember that, after both sides had recruited to a standstill for a month and in a town with a population at the time of around 45,000, Caley's total membership for the second vote was only 576 and no more than 226 ever voted against. Before this exhaustive recruitment, Caley only had 180 season ticket holders and hence members. Thistle's numbers were much smaller still and nearly a third of the population weren't even born when all that stuff happened. This is an urban myth which really needs to be left behind as we move on.

If you don't mind I'll also mention the notion of "needing investment". This is often quoted in football but what it really means is that a club would like to spend more than it is earning. Other types of business cut their cloth to suit their profit and loss accounts but in football there seems to be this expectation that wealthy individuals will subsidise the fundamentally loss making operation. This isn't really "investment", which is the input of money with a view to making a profit for you; it's quite simply a donation or subsidy which seems to be factored in among football's expectations. The reality is that players are paid and expect to be paid far, far more than the realistic market value of what they do and the gap in some cases is filled - not in a very stable and sustainable way, it has to be emphasised - by these subsidies and donations from wealthy people, which do happen but it's not realistic to expect them. In relation to players' wages, ticket prices should actually be far higher and very often they are kept down by these subsidies - which I am sure is what is behind the recently announced £100 reduction in season ticket prices on the other side of the Firth.

Edited May 14, 20178 yr by Charles Bannerman

I'm not surprised with Richie's comments. What is he meant to say? His future employers will be looking at the tapes, taking notes, he can't afford to seem anything other than professional and collected. We have no idea what bollocking he may or may not be giving the team in the dressing room and in training. I think it's better for his career as a manager to take to a cookie cutter response when he himself may be gobsmacked at the performances we've seen over the season rather than let the frustration that he is no doubt feeling show in footage that is eternally archived on the internet. 

Edited May 14, 20178 yr by TheCommissioner

23 hours ago, Yngwie said:

"I'm delighted with the players' performance.........We were the far the better team.........We didn't get what we deserved and that was the 3 points"

 

I'd be interested to know if our fans at the game agree with that.

 

Genuinely thought the quote was a wind-up ... but now seen the video ... cannot believe he is still coming out with this 

Apologies Commisioner - Yes Vigurs made the pass and a fine one at that. Perhaps the voddies were stronger than I thought !! But Esson did mess up twice and Raven was caught unawares. But Richie should have stopped all that survival nonsense. Perhaps if he had been gobsmacked and bollicking many moons ago and learned from his mistakes ??

6 hours ago, TheCommissioner said:

I'm not surprised with Richie's comments. What is he meant to say? His future employers will be looking at the tapes, taking notes, he can't afford to seem anything other than professional and collected. We have no idea what bollocking he may or may not be giving the team in the dressing room and in training. I think it's better for his career as a manager to take to a cookie cutter response when he himself may be gobsmacked at the performances we've seen over the season rather than let the frustration that he is no doubt feeling show in footage that is eternally archived on the internet. 

Future employers assumes that Richie will leave sometime ... and that someone else would be interested in his football management skills 

I don't think any video interview spin can gloss over this season's utter shambles. 

 

On 5/13/2017 at 4:51 PM, jagster said:

Gutted just gutted 

Good music Jagster I wish we could say the same about the football this season!

9 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Well I travelled with forlorn hope and a fair degree of trepidation. But that still did not stop me and my 146 compatriots from sitting in the away stand, cheer on the boys and hope for some salvation. My only negative thought at the start was the inclusion of Anier but otherwise I was quite happy with the first team choice. Fisher has deserved his chance and may have been a more polished player if he had been given a run early. He had a clear cut chance in the 2^nd minute, through on goal, 1-1 with McDonald and he totally fecked it up. If he had kept his composure, as he did 69 minutes later then it may have been a different story.

So we have a plastic pitch. We are playing in to the wind and the driving rain. Killie know the surface and they play tippy tappy at the back, use the width, take people on and are patient. Us we hoof at every opportunity. Billy Mckay must wonder what the feck is going on. Anier offers sod all and Mulraney has an off-day but rarely gets a ball at his feet or a pass to run on to. The clear tactic was to feckin hoof it. And for the second time away from home Esson makes the second big error (OK there were 2 errors) of his belated season and gifts the first goal to Longstaffe. Just what we did not need. You could see some heads go down at that time. Have to say that I was really impressed by Frizell, Jones and Wilson. If we had that three playing for us we would have hammered them. But we have Foran and the hoof.

So half time comes along and you think lets have a go. But God lets us down again. The wind dies down, the rain stops and some feckin sunshine comes out. And as if that wasn’t bad enuff we hook Mulraney for Vigurs. We put Draper up front and we switch Fisher to wide right midfield. Yes wide right midfield !! Foran complained about our defending for the second but I thought it was tidy lead up play and a very tidy finish by Jones who had tormented Brad all day long. And guess who had the two long range shots on target – of course – David Raven !!

Anier goes off, 58 minutes too late, and gets replaced by Polworth who never got into the game. Not sure exactly where he was playing though. And then we hook Draper and take on Cole. BUT we put Cole on the left BUT keep Fisher on the wide right and put Mckay up front on his own. We pack feckin midfield with the lackadaisical Vigurs and Tansey with Polworth running around like a headless chicken.

But as the chants against Foran begin to grow we put ourselves back in the game. Great pass from Tansey and Fisher tucks it away very neatly, 69 minutes too late. Lee McCulloch summed it up nicely – “The last 10 minutes were a bit nervy but we got there in the end.” We began to show the desire and fight that we should have been showing for weeks, nay months. No player can be faulted for endeavour in the last 15 minutes. Killie looked shell shocked and took their feet off the pedal. And wee Billy could have got us that desperately needed point with a glorious lob which would have been a goal of the season contender if it went in. We actually started playing football as well. Alas too late.

And Foran summed up the day – “I'm delighted with the players' performance, believe it or not. I told them they should be proud of themselves, how they handled the occasion.” Well he must have just been watching the last fifteen minutes and had forgotten the deplorable first 45. And then "Individual mistakes have cost us again. The only disappointing part is the second goal. Jones has so much space to run at us. It's a set-piece for us, they break and score - that's schoolboy defending but overall we were the far better team and had far better chances.” – DOH – wrong goal – and we deserved a point and that would have been a bit of a robbery. “We didn't get what we deserved and that was the three points, in my mind. We need to cut out the individual mistakes, it's been the story of the season.” – Yes agree about the individual mistakes and add it has been the story of MY season. Some players do NOT play for you. And then he concludes as a modern day Lazarus – “We need help from other clubs now, simple as that. We need to do our business on Wednesday and Saturday. There is still a chance. It is probably a small chance, but there is a chance." – WTF !!

No Smileymometer but here are my conclusions. Esson did OK but that one mistake early doors killed us. Brad was taken apart by Jones, Raven was solid and full of endeavour. Warren was my MOM for clearly giving his all. Laing was quietly effective. Mulraney never got going and Anier never has got going. Draper looked OK in midfield but was lost up front against a very tall Killie central defence. Tansey looks pretty but he is keeping himself for Aberdire. Fisher gave his all but was a fish out of water wide right. Wee Billy never got used and was a waste in the hole role. He is best on the toes of the last defender. Vigurs actually started trying to play football but he is such a lazy *******. Polworth and Cole made no impact. Ah Well it looks like Dumfries will be my ”home” game next season.

Thanks, IHE - useful. I think this tells us everything we need to know and everything we already know. Foran meade the best selection he could to start the game - maybe he has learnt from mistakes....once we go behind, he invariably panics and makes the same mistakes all over again:

1. He brings Vigurs on to a midfield that he doesn't fit

2. He puts Draper up front where he's always looked out of water. Because that fails, he then subs him. Warrior removed from the fray.

3. He shifts Fisher to anywhere he can think of... Surprised he hasn't popped up in goal yet.

4. He changes the system to one that is unrecognisable to players and fans alike. Polworth, Vigurs, Tansey, Draper is never, ever going to work so stop trying it.

God knows what the line up and formation will be against Dundee. The players must despair. Maybe Hamilton will put us out of our misery the night before, but if they don't I can't see anything but another calamity coming on Wednesday.

17 minutes ago, PerfICT said:

3. He shifts Fisher to anywhere he can think of... Surprised he hasn't popped up in goal yet.

 

FFS don't give him more ideas! 

He was trying Draper up front in October. It didn't work then. So what makes him think it will suddenly work now? Six months later and same old story. 

Moving Draper up front is simply an act of desperation.

19 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Gringo... I'm not going to go back there in detail, but I'm going to have to disagree. To be realistic, there weren't that many in the city who gave a toss one way or another about the merger in the first place.......

Fair comment there Charles and you are no doubt correct in your views regarding events / support at the start of the Caley Thistle journey. I'm also all for ICT living within their means which generally speaking we have managed to do. Our average home crowd doesn't support a PL wage in my view. Over the years ICT have climbed up the league ladder and culminated in a glorious SFA Cup win but this hasn't attracted more punters through the gate. We have an average home gate that could just about support the wage at Championship level...maybe.

52 minutes ago, Gringo said:

Fair comment there Charles and you are no doubt correct in your views regarding events / support at the start of the Caley Thistle journey. I'm also all for ICT living within their means which generally speaking we have managed to do. Our average home crowd doesn't support a PL wage in my view. Over the years ICT have climbed up the league ladder and culminated in a glorious SFA Cup win but this hasn't attracted more punters through the gate. We have an average home gate that could just about support the wage at Championship level...maybe.

It's not our average home gates that support the Premier League wage but the additional income from TV and league sponsors as a result of being in that top division as well as regular windfalls from our numerous cup runs.

Now that additional income from being in the top league has been lost and any cup run seems a distant prospect, our resources probably only realistically support part time football in the long term.

We will probably survive full time in the Championship for two seasons with help from the parachute payments which will end thereafter.

That is why we can't afford to let things drift any longer. The may we have being playing and managed is not good enough to be competing to be promoted straight back up. In fact, if things are allowed to drift and go on as they have been this season, we are more likely to face a successive relegation rather than a promotion just as St Mirren very nearly did this season until their board took decisive action and changed their manager.

Our board took no action this season to try to preserve the Premiership status so vital to our ongoing financial health other than bringing in a coach, who appears to have achieved very little, far too late in the day.

The chance to save our place in the Premiership has been lost due to inaction. If we are to have any chance of regaining it any time soon, that action needs now to be taken and well before the start of next season in what is likely to be a very competitive Championship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think there is an urgency beyond what Kingsmills says. Last time we went down, there was still some goodwill mongst the players towards the manger - Butcher had done a reasonable job in trying to prevent relegation (but for a misjudgement by Tokely, he might even have succeeeded). There was also the desire and presumably the finances from the Board to allow those who wanted to stay on to do so. The result was retention of a very solid team that ultimately succeeded the following year.

None of the above will be true this time if Foran is not removed immediately. If he stays, there will be a stampede for the door amonstt those players still contracted - who in their right mind would want to play for a manager who genuinely has no clue whatsoever? Draper, Raven, Polworth, Warren, Tremarco and Doran will all invoke any clauses they have in their contracts or be offering to leave  by mutual consent to reduce the wage bill. The board will gleefully accept and we'll be starting from nothing. Do nothing or wait until long into June and the damage will be done to the squad IMO.

Bring in a new manager who has the respect of the players and there's a chance that some of them will want to stay and give it at least one shot in the Championship.