https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/scottish-championship/table

Interesting viewing!

It's surprising, in view of the limited number of wins that ICT has, how far up the table we are.

 Comments?

2017/18:   9th / goals for: 10 / goals against:  16 LLDWLLLDD

2018/19    3rd / goals for: 11 / goals against:  06 WDDWWDDDD

Home games: DDDWD    Away games:  WDWD

So we have taken 47% of the points at home but 67% away.  If you flipped the home/away it'd be a great start, but that away percentage is not sustainable and so what we need to do is win, at home, from 30 October v Dunfermline onwards.  

Edited October 22, 20187 yr by Glover
D

The never ending draws are gonna cost us big time need to win this league not often the play of winners go up fixed for the prem side to stay up!

2 hours ago, Glover said:

2017/18:   9th / goals for: 10 / goals against:  16 LLDWLLLDD

2018/19    3rd / goals for: 11 / goals against:  06 WDDWWDDDD

Home games: DDDWD    Away games:  WDWD

So we have taken 47% of the points at home but 67% away.  If you flipped the home/away it'd be a great start, but that away percentage is not sustainable and so what we need to do is win, at home, from 30 October v Dunfermline onwards.  

Agree we need to improve our home results , but the points total and placing is much improved from last year at same period.

Thats why I get a bit frustrated with a lot of the negativity on the forum.

 

Edited October 22, 20187 yr by Gregor

46 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Agree we need to improve our home results , but the points total and placing is much improved from last year at same period.

Thats why I get a bit frustrated with a lot of the negativity on the forum.

 

Agree to a point, last year was an aberration and not a fair comparison.  Partick sacked their manager for less.  The negativity is just disappointment, and understandable, people have seen 7.5 hrs of football and 6 of those were draws with teams we were expected to beat.   There might be many dour fans, but isn't that the point of football - to be entertained and escape the humdrum - I'm not sure where  the lime between duty and obligation and entertainment is in football.  

Anyway, yes - everything is on track, but too early for plaudits.

 

Goals win games and sadly averaging just over 1 goal per match isn't going to win you the league. A solution to the creativity and goals has to be the priority - whether that's getting by until Austin & Oakley return and hoping one of them goes on a run of sustained fitness and goals or a gamble is taken in Jan to bring someone in.

Maybe, just maybe our destiny lies in the championship.  Nothing wrong with that considering the financial position of the club.The last thing we want is to be promoted  and struggle because of lack of funds for infrastructure and players.

In that case its a pretty sad state of affairs that the 7th (depending on which survey) largest city in Scotland by population can't sustain enough fans to support a full time football team playing at the top level. In terms of fan attendance V's city population our percentage must be very low in comparison to other clubs and sadly prolonged Championship football will do little to improve on that statistic.

Just now, bdu98196 said:

In that case its a pretty sad state of affairs that the 7th (depending on which survey) largest city in Scotland by population can't sustain enough fans to support a full time football team playing at the top level. In terms of fan attendance V's city population our percentage must be very low in comparison to other clubs and sadly prolonged Championship football will do little to improve on that statistic.

The last time I looked at City Population v Attendance figures....we were up there at the top end of the table.

That would have been done when we were playing in the top league with better attendances, so would doubtless make for less impressive reading on current numbers...what with attendances falling whilst population continues to grow.

It should also be taken into consideration that whilst population is growing, it is in no small part due to people moving to the area who may already have other team allegiances.  A fact that ties into a point I made elsewhere about the country possibly being at "peak interest" with fans of the game being spread across too many clubs for a country our size.

3 hours ago, caleyboy said:

Maybe, just maybe our destiny lies in the championship.  Nothing wrong with that considering the financial position of the club.The last thing we want is to be promoted  and struggle because of lack of funds for infrastructure and players.

We are struggling financially in the Championship and, should we not gain promotion this season, will do so even more in the future once the parachute payments end to the point where full time football may be difficult to sustain.

We have no divine right to be in the Premiership and promotion will bring it's own challenges but, until we overreached ourselves in the last couple of seasons in the top tier, more or less broke even every season.

If we are to prosper as a club and maintain full time status Premiership football is essential in the next year or two.

 

Whilst I appreciate what you are saying Kingsmills I honestly believe the whole setup needs a good shake so that we don't need to be looking over our shoulder all the time. Structure, not necessarily personel is what I'm talking about.

Caleyboy.   please give us a few pointers as to  where you think the league can improve the set-up then?

IMHO, regardless, these changes would have to be radical to persuade the spectators/supporters in Winter to leave their warm houses  and T V sets and come down in droves to the Caledonian Stadium. So, they need to be offered better fare than currently being experienced,     }--

(1) J R needs to find a way to get the forwards to score more goals .

(2 )And then the provision of food (even a hot meal) must be improved and offered. The punters need to feel that they are uniquely important.   And sure they are because without them this club would fold. Period.      I said...………………….. SPECIAL ! !

And if that means free  sweeties for the kids (who also are future Caley supporters) or a soft seat for tired dad, who may suffer from haemorrhoids, to sit on free of charge then he must be made to feel like he is needed and WANTED. Give HIM a heated seat  and he will be coming  back for life!

The one thing that might persuade the punters to arrive would be a guaranteed seat in a sheltered stand without paying extra. Or, simply put, make a radical change in the offered pricing structure.  E.G. State one moderate price for all and it's up to you where you go--sit or stand. Now what would the club lose in a situation like that? They sure as heck would not lose goodwill and they would hopefully gain more regular clients for the future stability of the club. It's a  business first and a jolly place to be second.

The fans would be laughing all the way to the stadium and surely be coming back for the next home match. So, it means a few extra shillings for the fan but  this would mean a much better and happier atmosphere and , after  all, it's A DAY OUT, FOLKS,  NOT A WAKE!  When people sit on a seat  no damage to the seat usually happens but the emotional body of the fan changes radically and positively. You then become SP - ECIAL.

And then a politely worded letter should be sent to each of the Directors requesting that they  consider putting a shareholder's loan into the club to allow for the above development to happen.  I said a loan, not a gift, such that it means that they surely would have to take a much greater interest in how this club was run. And, if that worked for them, then a repayment  programme could be instituted to return their loans over a specified period....longer rather than the short term because these loans would be there to allow for development and progress to occur and that rarely happens over one season. Correct?

If you cannot get these Directors to became personally engaged in the nitty -gritty of the progress of this club then what,  ladies & gentlemen of the jury , are they doing in powerful positions within the structure of the club  and remaining, apparently, more than  a little divorced from the the financial  realities of the club's progress and , equally important, from the realities of what faces the fans every other week .

If the club continues to struggle to survive, let alone make significant progress, there must be a good reason put forward as to why their feet cannot be put to the fire because I smell danger here!  Unless they all as a group think this is nothing but a sinecure for their sole progress and comfort. It is not and they have responsibilities which, apparently,  are currently unknown to the fans due to lack of communication.

Comments please?

 

I hate to say it, but this is our last hope of staying a full time club, it's either get promoted this season, or be doomed for an eternity in the Championship or, dare I say it, even lower. I highly doubt we have the funds to survive another season outside the premiership. And the only way we'll get top flight football is if some of the team actually woke up and pulled their weight, from the games I've attended both our attack and defence is lackluster, we're simply handing the ball to the opposition, and at the rate this is going, I think County are going to take serious advantage of that on Saturday unless we seriously improve our performances tomorrow night. We all know where we want to be in the Pyramid, back in top flight, taking on the big boys and fighting for a return to the Europa League, but none of that will happen (maybe ever) unless the team gets their act together and pulls as a team.

On 10/23/2018 at 10:46 AM, caleyboy said:

Maybe, just maybe our destiny lies in the championship.  Nothing wrong with that considering the financial position of the club.The last thing we want is to be promoted  and struggle because of lack of funds for infrastructure and players.

I'm 50/50 with that observation. The problem with Inverness is we cannot afford to stew in the Championship and miss out on all the cash the big 5 bring. 

Besides Dundee Utd and the Highland Derby I think its safe to say no Championship team bring a good following up the A9 and we cant really keep going on Home Support alone with only about 2500 (or thereabouts)

That South Stand needs the likes of Sellic, The Rangers, Hibs, Hertz and Aberdeen Caledonian Thistle to bring in a healthy income. 

If County go up and leave us in the Championship I don't see TCS being full again for a long time unless the moons align and we pull one if the big teams out the hat in a cup contest.

Edited October 30, 20187 yr by LairdMattie
Forgot to mention the Dingwall Gudgies

4 hours ago, LairdMattie said:

I'm 50/50 with that observation. The problem with Inverness is we cannot afford to stew in the Championship and miss out on all the cash the big 5 bring. 

Besides Dundee Utd and the Highland Derby I think its safe to say no Championship team bring a good following up the A9 and we cant really keep going on Home Support alone with only about 2500 (or thereabouts)

That South Stand needs the likes of Sellic, The Rangers, Hibs, Hertz and Aberdeen Caledonian Thistle to bring in a healthy income. 

If County go up and leave us in the Championship I don't see TCS being full again for a long time unless the moons align and we pull one if the big teams out the hat in a cup contest.

I agree and understand all you are saying but I really don't think our financial structure supports us getting to the next level. If Robbo had the budget available to Dundee Utd and County I would be confident of promotion but you can see why we are not turning draws into wins. If we're to achieve promotion the club needs substantial investment and that is the board's responsibility. 

Isn’t it more the financial case that between investing / borrowing to get into the Premiership the strategy now is to remain in the Championship, with a largely home grown team, and break even - “sustainable”.  And, if the Premiership can be reached on the cheap, once every five years to a decade, so much the better.  

Sadly, that means waving goodbye to £1.5 to £2m in prize money and instead getting £200k.  Our Chairman is a risk management executive and it isn’t too much of a leap to see that in our dealings and I’m sure some agree with that strategy and some don’t.  But any season ticket renewal PR next year should at least avoid overpromising and just state the plan ahead rather than muddy it and disappoint.

Whilst I do like the good governance approach of taking minimal risks and living within our means, which is what the club has run with for most of our existence (outside the first few years), there does come a time when you need to take a slightly riskier approach.  There was an article this week that County and other Premier sides from last year just got a bonus of £371,000 plopped into their accounts for Celtic's European adventures. How huge would that be for Robbo's budget right about now !!! I take it from the article that Championship teams get nothing? If that's the case then the gulf will widen unless we do everything we can to get back to the top league and survive there. 

 

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

... the good governance approach of taking minimal risks and living within our means, which is what the club has run with for most of our existence (outside the first few years),

... and, it seems, the last year in the top division. 

I don't think these problems have melted away.  It's not much fun, but the approach at the moment has surely to be to ensure survival, then sustainability, and, if things become stable, then look to see how we might move upwards again.

Sure, if promotion comes along, we'll all take it.  But then we'd have to decide whether to try to stay up with a minimal spend, or spend money which we haven't got.

I would always opt for survival over risking the future of the club.  Would be a shame to see 130+ years of history come to an end.

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Whilst I do like the good governance approach of taking minimal risks and living within our means, which is what the club has run with for most of our existence (outside the first few years), there does come a time when you need to take a slightly riskier approach.  There was an article this week that County and other Premier sides from last year just got a bonus of £371,000 plopped into their accounts for Celtic's European adventures. How huge would that be for Robbo's budget right about now !!! I take it from the article that Championship teams get nothing? If that's the case then the gulf will widen unless we do everything we can to get back to the top league and survive there. 

 

Did we not get a similar amount last year after our relegation?

9 minutes ago, snorbens_caleyman said:

I don't think these problems have melted away.  It's not much fun, but the approach at the moment has surely to be to ensure survival, then sustainability, and, if things become stable, then look to see how we might move upwards again.

On the whole I agree ... but if it looks like we have a chance then maybe its time to take a slightly bigger risk. Not outlandish administration causing risks, but calculated ones ! 

1 minute ago, MorayJaggie said:

Did we not get a similar amount last year after our relegation?

this wasnt a relegation payment it was a European bonus based on the performance of Celtic. Dont think we got anything last year as Celtic had not done that well the season before ... but yes we have had it in the past. Its basically free money, and if the numbers mentioned in here are right, almost double what we might get for a whole season in the championship.   

The assumption from the last few comments is that we have been prudent and operating without investment since relegation...and, by the Chairman's own words, that couldn't be further from the truth.  Back in July he issued a statement that said there had been £900,000 in additional investment and more was needed.  That's a long way from living within our means and being sustainable in the Championship!

P.S.  We got £374,000 from UEFA last year which we won't have got this year.

Edited October 30, 20187 yr by CaleyD
Added bit about sustainability.

47 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

Did we not get a similar amount last year after our relegation?

Upon relegation we got 4.5% of the league money for 12th in premiership - £1.07*m, and then £300,000 parachute and £374,000 solidarity.  So there was £1.65m floating about before season ticket sales, sponsorship etc.  (£900,000 was also reported to have been 'injected' by July 2017)

This season we will have 1% of league money for 5th in Championship £237,000* and then £150,000 parachute.  So there is £387, 000 floating about before season ticket sales, sponsorship etc.  

If performance progressive alone exceeds that (in the region of £467,000 according to Falkirk - Partick had it higher...) then season ticket money is vital and, to be frank, the people who pay for the season tickets should collectively be recognised as the club's no.1 priority.

*from P&B

It takes several seasons to build a good side especially if you are at a financial disadvantage to other clubs at your level, then you need luck to get out of the division. Pele, brilliant as he was at spotting a player and building sides that played very attractive attacking football never managed to get to the Premier, along comes JR adds one or two players and gets up first season. We can't buy our way to the top division unless a sugar daddy comes along.

Even during Pele's time I could never understand why the team didn't get more local support especially given the brand of football they were playing, it was highly entertaining stuff to watch. I believe the club will always be around its just a case of at what level.

The constant challenge is that the game is all about money and not as much about entertainment and/or just football.

It has become so dedicated to this precept now that a reverse change appears to be completely out of the question. Not to say at all that from time immemorial money has been the main reason for presenting "games" e.g. Gladiators  were murdered in the Roman arena for the delight of the PAYING citizen and because the "owners" of these fighters  wanted more and more money.

These parachute, end of season type of supportive payments are in reality just a sop to the game. They keep lower teams in business  to some extent and it is from these lower level teams that budding high quality players get their chances for success. Except that they are essentially being used at the lower levels not for THEIR benefit but for the future financial benefit of the upper level teams' owners.

Wil it ever change? Not much chance of that since society has evolved for individual enrichment but not necessarily for the well-being of the average man./woman in the street. It's all about temporary hard cash (whilst you are alive on this planet) and NOT for spiritual enrichment. So enjoy your life and move on to something else because if all you can do to hope for change is to moan about it I fear that you may well become very disillusioned. And that, IMHO,  dear friends, is why Jolly Justin Trudeau , Prime Minister of Canada, has legalised pot so that the majority of people  can assuage their inner sense of hopelessness  without having to worry too much about emotional fulfilment.