League restructure

[Gregor 254]

10 hours ago, TheStickyBandit said:

Well today confirms that the majority of the SPFL members particularly the Premier league members are nothing but a bunch of spineless self serving yes men who are happy with the status quo as long as they receive their old firm gate money. 

Not quite correct 33.3% of premiership clubs voted for an investigation whereas only 10% of Championship clubs voted in favour that one club being ourselves. So what does that say about our fellow clubs in the Championship.?

[ictchris 1,201]

After we on the title in 2003/04 we were initially denied promotion because we didn't have a 10,000 all seater stadium.  We proposed to ground share with Aberdeen but this was rejected.  However, following that we lobbied within the SPL (as it then was) and managed to persuade the clubs to rethink and we were eventually promoted and the rules on stadiums were relaxed, allowing us to properly redevelop our stadium for the top flight.

Between 2002 and 2013 we had four managers leave our club to take over at other larger clubs (|Paterson to Aberdeen, Robbo to Hearts, Brewster to Dundee Utd, Butcher to Hibs).  Each deal netted us a six figure sum, we very likely took in more than half a million pounds during that time just from these deals and every time we improved as a team afterwards.

If we were in either of those situations again, does anyone think that we'd have the same level of influence or be able to strike deals as positive for the club?  No chance.  People won't negotiate with us in good faith, why would they?  If we don't like their offer we'll just leak the WhatsApp messages.

Regarding an inquiry, I think the whole affair has been a shambles and in theory an inquiry would be a good idea but in reality, what's the point?  Say the inquiry came back and said that nothing improper was done, would our board, or the Rangers board or the Hearts board accept that?  No they won't.  If it comes back and says the whole thing was a big stitch up, then what happens then?  We kick out the chairman of 30 clubs?  The fact is that the accusations from our board and others are wooly and ill defined and any further inquiry would very likely be inconclusive.

The whole affair has dragged the name of the club through the mud, allied us with the nutcase fringe of Scottish football and served to reduce our standing and influence.  And for what purpose?  Absolutely none.  A complete failure on all levels by the club.  

[Satan 539]

Oh, the drama.

[MorayJaggie 482]

1 hour ago, ictchris said:

After we on the title in 2003/04 we were initially denied promotion because we didn't have a 10,000 all seater stadium.  We proposed to ground share with Aberdeen but this was rejected.  However, following that we lobbied within the SPL (as it then was) and managed to persuade the clubs to rethink and we were eventually promoted and the rules on stadiums were relaxed, allowing us to properly redevelop our stadium for the top flight.

Between 2002 and 2013 we had four managers leave our club to take over at other larger clubs (|Paterson to Aberdeen, Robbo to Hearts, Brewster to Dundee Utd, Butcher to Hibs).  Each deal netted us a six figure sum, we very likely took in more than half a million pounds during that time just from these deals and every time we improved as a team afterwards.

If we were in either of those situations again, does anyone think that we'd have the same level of influence or be able to strike deals as positive for the club?  No chance.  People won't negotiate with us in good faith, why would they?  If we don't like their offer we'll just leak the WhatsApp messages.

Regarding an inquiry, I think the whole affair has been a shambles and in theory an inquiry would be a good idea but in reality, what's the point?  Say the inquiry came back and said that nothing improper was done, would our board, or the Rangers board or the Hearts board accept that?  No they won't.  If it comes back and says the whole thing was a big stitch up, then what happens then?  We kick out the chairman of 30 clubs?  The fact is that the accusations from our board and others are wooly and ill defined and any further inquiry would very likely be inconclusive.

The whole affair has dragged the name of the club through the mud, allied us with the nutcase fringe of Scottish football and served to reduce our standing and influence.  And for what purpose?  Absolutely none.  A complete failure on all levels by the club.  

We had no influence to start with. The club did what they believed was right for ourselves and other clubs who were are now facing extreme financial hardship. They revealed their evidence that the vote was corrupt and bow have been attacked by the spfl for sticking to their guns. The evidence they produced showed that the vote was corrupt and that it shouldn't have stood. They have maintained their position bot changed their view unlike several other clubs who have bowed to the premiership clubs. And don't get me started on brechin using our reputation to convince the league two clubs to change their votes.

[DoofersDad 4,217]

10 hours ago, Jack Waddington said:

Seriously though, what moron would phone in and say that us and Rangers should lose points next season, just because we called out the SPFL on bullying...😂

 

Neil Doncaster?

[MorayJaggie 482]

Does anyone else smell a rat that all these recent accusations against our CEO and board have bow miraculously come to the fore after all the other championship clubs decided against a independent enquiry?

[Satan 539]

Unfortunately everything is viewed through the prism of celtic/rangers, nothing can be seen to be done without being for/against the benefit of the ugly sisters. Step forward Keith Jackson with his 'exclusive' , front page stuff ( with colour pictures for those that can't read well ) Just ups the ante a bit more, and the sensational bull5h1t takes precedence over the real story.

He also has an online article on why the spfl should be 'razed to the ground' and rebuilt....but that just won't sell papers as well.🙄

[TheMantis 1,779]

3 hours ago, ictchris said:

After we on the title in 2003/04 we were initially denied promotion because we didn't have a 10,000 all seater stadium.  We proposed to ground share with Aberdeen but this was rejected.  However, following that we lobbied within the SPL (as it then was) and managed to persuade the clubs to rethink and we were eventually promoted and the rules on stadiums were relaxed, allowing us to properly redevelop our stadium for the top flight.

Between 2002 and 2013 we had four managers leave our club to take over at other larger clubs (|Paterson to Aberdeen, Robbo to Hearts, Brewster to Dundee Utd, Butcher to Hibs).  Each deal netted us a six figure sum, we very likely took in more than half a million pounds during that time just from these deals and every time we improved as a team afterwards.

If we were in either of those situations again, does anyone think that we'd have the same level of influence or be able to strike deals as positive for the club?  No chance.  People won't negotiate with us in good faith, why would they?  If we don't like their offer we'll just leak the WhatsApp messages.

Regarding an inquiry, I think the whole affair has been a shambles and in theory an inquiry would be a good idea but in reality, what's the point?  Say the inquiry came back and said that nothing improper was done, would our board, or the Rangers board or the Hearts board accept that?  No they won't.  If it comes back and says the whole thing was a big stitch up, then what happens then?  We kick out the chairman of 30 clubs?  The fact is that the accusations from our board and others are wooly and ill defined and any further inquiry would very likely be inconclusive.

The whole affair has dragged the name of the club through the mud, allied us with the nutcase fringe of Scottish football and served to reduce our standing and influence.  And for what purpose?  Absolutely none.  A complete failure on all levels by the club.  

Sure, it's been a shambles but the impression I get is that people from the outside are pointing the finger at Scot Gardiner as he has previous and apparently is a diehard currant bun. We're just seen as the mugs who took him on despite all the baggage, and (it has to be said), we were well warned. I am not judging him - just saying how it appears from things I've read.

[lightlamp2 68]

3 hours ago, ictchris said:

After we on the title in 2003/04 we were initially denied promotion because we didn't have a 10,000 all seater stadium.  We proposed to ground share with Aberdeen but this was rejected.  However, following that we lobbied within the SPL (as it then was) and managed to persuade the clubs to rethink and we were eventually promoted and the rules on stadiums were relaxed, allowing us to properly redevelop our stadium for the top flight.

Between 2002 and 2013 we had four managers leave our club to take over at other larger clubs (|Paterson to Aberdeen, Robbo to Hearts, Brewster to Dundee Utd, Butcher to Hibs).  Each deal netted us a six figure sum, we very likely took in more than half a million pounds during that time just from these deals and every time we improved as a team afterwards.

If we were in either of those situations again, does anyone think that we'd have the same level of influence or be able to strike deals as positive for the club?  No chance.  People won't negotiate with us in good faith, why would they?  If we don't like their offer we'll just leak the WhatsApp messages.

Regarding an inquiry, I think the whole affair has been a shambles and in theory an inquiry would be a good idea but in reality, what's the point?  Say the inquiry came back and said that nothing improper was done, would our board, or the Rangers board or the Hearts board accept that?  No they won't.  If it comes back and says the whole thing was a big stitch up, then what happens then?  We kick out the chairman of 30 clubs?  The fact is that the accusations from our board and others are wooly and ill defined and any further inquiry would very likely be inconclusive.

The whole affair has dragged the name of the club through the mud, allied us with the nutcase fringe of Scottish football and served to reduce our standing and influence.  And for what purpose?  Absolutely none.  A complete failure on all levels by the club.  

We never had any influence. We are a small club by any standards with one of the lowest budgets in the championship. And lets all not forget the clubs are business's at the end of the day. The bottom line is the bottom line. And money talks. Not "good will" 

In regards to an inquiry. You think their should be zero accountability then? I think its very telling how all those clubs who accused us of lying on the same day voted down an inquiry (at no extra cost) to figure out the facts. And if the facts came to show that their was no impropriety of course we would have to accept it. We wouldn't have a leg to stand on then. You shouldn't be hoodwinked into believing what those with green tinted glasses say. From what i've seen our master plan was that we wanted to Null and void the season and deny our club £200K and then make baseless allegations against the SPFL Which we would then call for an independent investigation so it can all be revealed to be a massive fabrication on our part therefore doing immense damage to our club. Sounds about right....

 

The livingston statement today i feel had this spot on. Calling for an inquiry. But also lamenting the sham reconstruction talks. And then mentioning the afflicted clubs who lose out because of this. Namely the relegated clubs and those in play off positions. Who are all seemingly told to shut up and eat your cereal and get on with it. Because the real crime would be no promotion or relegation apparently?

Edited May 13, 2020 by lightlamp2

[dougiedanger 457]

15 minutes ago, TheMantis said:

Sure, it's been a shambles but the impression I get is that people from the outside are pointing the finger at Scot Gardiner as he has previous and apparently is a diehard currant bun. We're just seen as the mugs who took him on despite all the baggage, and (it has to be said), we were well warned. I am not judging him - just saying how it appears from things I've read.

This is exactly it, the only logical reason for such an illogical course of action. An extended job application. 

Let's just see where Cooper the dug is going for a pish in a year or two.  

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER 5,139]

Has anyone actually considered that a more independently run investigation might blow the current regime to feckin smithereens and the people who forced its implementation will be considered martyrs and heroes - and treated with a fair degree of caution in the future. Shure this is the best possible outcome but it is still possible. Debate ??

[DoofersDad 4,217]

Interesting article by Tom English.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646285

In it, he says 

 

"Scottish football missed an opportunity to examine itself three years ago and it has missed another opportunity now. Strip away the bile and all the inter-club warfare and ask a simple question - can we do better than this? If a neutral party put that to a vote and asked club leaders, players and supporters to respond yes or no, what would the result look like? 

Can we do better? The answer, surely, would be an emphatic yes. This is the problem, though. When you try to lift the bonnet to have a look at how things are done, the thing that some want to know first is who's doing the lifting and why? What's their agenda? Who are they acting on behalf of? What are they really trying to do? 

That mentality chokes progress. It protects the status quo. Clubs have it in their gift to introduce radical change to the game if they so wish, but they don't want it - or don't want it enough. People like to talk about change, but not many are brave enough to see it through."

 

Seems to sum up the situation pretty well.

[lightlamp2 68]

10 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Interesting article by Tom English.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646285

In it, he says 

 

"Scottish football missed an opportunity to examine itself three years ago and it has missed another opportunity now. Strip away the bile and all the inter-club warfare and ask a simple question - can we do better than this? If a neutral party put that to a vote and asked club leaders, players and supporters to respond yes or no, what would the result look like? 

Can we do better? The answer, surely, would be an emphatic yes. This is the problem, though. When you try to lift the bonnet to have a look at how things are done, the thing that some want to know first is who's doing the lifting and why? What's their agenda? Who are they acting on behalf of? What are they really trying to do? 

That mentality chokes progress. It protects the status quo. Clubs have it in their gift to introduce radical change to the game if they so wish, but they don't want it - or don't want it enough. People like to talk about change, but not many are brave enough to see it through."

 

Seems to sum up the situation pretty well.

No doubt he will be hounded for that. Even though he is bang on

[Murphyscot 56]

 

12 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Interesting article by Tom English.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52646285

In it, he says 

 

"Scottish football missed an opportunity to examine itself three years ago and it has missed another opportunity now. Strip away the bile and all the inter-club warfare and ask a simple question - can we do better than this? If a neutral party put that to a vote and asked club leaders, players and supporters to respond yes or no, what would the result look like? 

Can we do better? The answer, surely, would be an emphatic yes. This is the problem, though. When you try to lift the bonnet to have a look at how things are done, the thing that some want to know first is who's doing the lifting and why? What's their agenda? Who are they acting on behalf of? What are they really trying to do? 

That mentality chokes progress. It protects the status quo. Clubs have it in their gift to introduce radical change to the game if they so wish, but they don't want it - or don't want it enough. People like to talk about change, but not many are brave enough to see it through."

 

Seems to sum up the situation pretty well.

Just now, lightlamp2 said:

No doubt he will be hounded for that. Even though he is bang on

He already has been, noticed a couple of comments on P & B  saying that he's a failed journalist and doesnt bother to do any research

[roby 29]

2 hours ago, lightlamp2 said:

We never had any influence. We are a small club by any standards with one of the lowest budgets in the championship. And lets all not forget the clubs are business's at the end of the day. The bottom line is the bottom line. And money talks. Not "good will" 

In regards to an inquiry. You think their should be zero accountability then? I think its very telling how all those clubs who accused us of lying on the same day voted down an inquiry (at no extra cost) to figure out the facts. And if the facts came to show that their was no impropriety of course we would have to accept it. We wouldn't have a leg to stand on then. You shouldn't be hoodwinked into believing what those with green tinted glasses say. From what i've seen our master plan was that we wanted to Null and void the season and deny our club £200K and then make baseless allegations against the SPFL Which we would then call for an independent investigation so it can all be revealed to be a massive fabrication on our part therefore doing immense damage to our club. Sounds about right....

 

The livingston statement today i feel had this spot on. Calling for an inquiry. But also lamenting the sham reconstruction talks. And then mentioning the afflicted clubs who lose out because of this. Namely the relegated clubs and those in play off positions. Who are all seemingly told to shut up and eat your cereal and get on with it. Because the real crime would be no promotion or relegation apparently?

Without doubt this has been the most shambolic era in Scottish football history . There are many things which have upset me but by far the most is the reaction by certain members on this forum ( before anyone tells me , I know they are all entitled to their opinions .) Every Tom , Dick and Harry in Scottish football  are lining up to have a pop at our club !!! And for what ? Because our chairman and ceo acted honestly and for what they thought was in the best interests of our club . It must stick in their gut when they see how some of their so called supporters perceive them . 

[Kingsmills 6,308]

I think at least part of this is to do with the optics.

The Rangers are, often with very good reason, widely disliked and distrusted in Scottish football. Generally speaking, I tend to dislike them and certainly distrust them myself.

However, even the worst and most corrupt of organisations can sometimes be in the right and, in this instance at least, the Rangers seem to have a very valid point. Something certainly smells but because, at least partly  of who is asking for the enquiry many are resistant to it and we are  in part at least, being vilified by association.

It is a great pity that this enforced hiatus could not be used as an opportunity to dismantle completely our tainted, incompetent and distrusted administration structure and start afresh based purely on sound administration, good marketing, fresh thinking and sporting integrity.

Sadly however, the corrupt, inept and self interested forces in control would never allow that to happen as a result of which our game will eventually emerge in as unfair and mismanaged a state as ever.

A missed opportunity.

[+snorbens_caleyman 597]

If there were any brains in Rangers and Celtic, they would have realised that now could be the time for the Atlantic League!   They will be playing next season behind closed doors, or certainly much reduced crowds.  (Smaller clubs might not be.)  As will the big fish in the other small ponds.  Would have attracted global interest and much more TV money for all involved.  TV companies might even have been willing to tear up domestic contracts for next season in favour of the Atlantic League.

And having them out of the way would leave the way open for domestic league reconstruction of the sort that most people would like to see.

Of course there isn't time, and there are too many contractual and legal hurdles in the way.   I don''t think the travel problems are insurmountable - after all, UEFA is still planning to have the Champions' and Europa Leagues.

If only someone had started running with that idea a month or so ago...

[GogglesWalter 6]

https://ictfc.com/the-board no mention off SG here??? 

[+old caley girl 1,822]

17 minutes ago, GogglesWalter said:

https://ictfc.com/the-board no mention off SG here??? 

Not up to date. No mention of David Cameron or Alan Munro either

[Satan 539]

1 hour ago, GogglesWalter said:

https://ictfc.com/the-board no mention off SG here??? 

Try Here.

And it's in his favourite colour too.🤗

[+Robert 1,424]

5 minutes ago, Satan said:

Try Here.

And it's in his favourite colour too.🤗

A great gesture by the club to all the NHS staff and key workers. Blue is the colour many prominent buildings get lit up in to show that support  

As CEO, will it not be that Gardiner is not necessarily a Director?

[caleyboy 845]

7 minutes ago, Robert said:

A great gesture by the club to all the NHS staff and key workers. Blue is the colour many prominent buildings get lit up in to show that support  

As CEO, will it not be that Gardiner is not necessarily a Director?

Correct. He is not a director.

[GogglesWalter 6]

https://www.facebook.com/543673428994231/posts/3460492810645597/?extid=djqxiDjicTvKU7Ft&d=null&vh=e

Very interesting watch. Makes SG and our club look bad 

[CaleyCanary 503]

On 5/13/2020 at 4:01 PM, Kingsmills said:

I think at least part of this is to do with the optics.

The Rangers are, often with very good reason, widely disliked and distrusted in Scottish football. Generally speaking, I tend to dislike them and certainly distrust them myself.

However, even the worst and most corrupt of organisations can sometimes be in the right and, in this instance at least, the Rangers seem to have a very valid point. Something certainly smells but because, at least partly  of who is asking for the enquiry many are resistant to it and we are  in part at least, being vilified by association.

It is a great pity that this enforced hiatus could not be used as an opportunity to dismantle completely our tainted, incompetent and distrusted administration structure and start afresh based purely on sound administration, good marketing, fresh thinking and sporting integrity.

Sadly however, the corrupt, inept and self interested forces in control would never allow that to happen as a result of which our game will eventually emerge in as unfair and mismanaged a state as ever.

A missed opportunity.

Thanks Kingsmills, I was wondering how I was going to word a post that described my feelings about the whole debacle but you've done it for me 👍 It doesn't sit well with me that we ended up being on the same side of an argument as the Rangers, but it doesn't mean we were wrong to do so.

I can sort of understand a bit how Chris feels about our club being dragged through the mud, but I don't blame our board for this. I admire their dogged, persistent stance in the face of unjust onslaughts in an effort to get the truth out there. The blame for any tarnishing of our reputation lies with others chasing their own agendas to the detriment of Scottish football as a whole.

[lightlamp2 68]

19 hours ago, GogglesWalter said:

https://www.facebook.com/543673428994231/posts/3460492810645597/?extid=djqxiDjicTvKU7Ft&d=null&vh=e

Very interesting watch. Makes SG and our club look bad 

All i seen was a diddy chairman arguing that clubs should shut up and take their enforced relegation because people are dying? I dont see the correlation.

Edited May 16, 2020 by lightlamp2