some interesting reading

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/20128225

We must have sold more season tickets as it says we are on budget

That's the interesting bit! This statement does explain the short term player deals etc tho.

We must have sold more season tickets as it says we are on budget

No, the budget was just set at a lower level than the previous year.

We made a loss of £378,000 last season, which was worse than the previous year due to a decrease in revenues and an increase in wage costs. How does that happen when we must have saved a fortune on win bonuses!

Obviously not a good result, but shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. What will the current season bring, with nearly every major source of income appearing to be down?

It could be worse, we could be Hearts - they lose millions a year, have massive debts, struggle to pay their wages and and are now being pursued for £2m by HMRC having not accounted for UK PAYE/NI on loaned in players. A director says "administration is not in the agenda" which I interpret to mean administration is very much on the agenda.

We would have done even worse if we hadn't issued a further £500k in shares.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. (Philip Dick). At this time of the season this is actually the kind of reality check that is required. ICT are,were and always will struggle to meet ends meet. We are,were and will always be a selling club, a feeder to bigger clubs. But somehow we have always managed to avoid significant and crippling debts. That is money management at its best. Lets just pay homage that we aint facing the dilemnas faced by the Portsmouths of this era and never go on a Gretna / Livingston "Live the dream" journey. I would rather endure sleepless nights and nightmares as long as ICT lives on.

How do we progress financially this year ? Is that not the same equation as our progress on the football field ? Top six finish and two good cup runs and a smell at Europe next season. Then we start worrying about next season but produce players who may bring in valuable transfer fees. Am I being overly pessimistic ?

We would have done even worse if we hadn't issued a further £500k in shares.

Issuing shares actually has no bearing at all on the reported loss - but it was a vital source of cash that enabled the loss to be accomodated without unpleasant consequences.

Do we get 50% of the Ibrox gate money?

After costs

All the more reason to win on Wednesday and get through to the semi final!

As ever a few more through the turnstiles will not hurt either. A win midweek though will be a big boost if achieved both financially and a a big stepping stone to what could be a great season.

We would have done even worse if we hadn't issued a further £500k in shares.

Issuing shares actually has no bearing at all on the reported loss - but it was a vital source of cash that enabled the loss to be accomodated without unpleasant consequences.

Sorry, I should have been more specific as I was referring to the overall balance sheet situation and not the P&L account. We seem to be fortunate that we have people willing to invest substantial sums each year to save a crisis. The question is - How long can this continue?

Edited October 30, 201213 yr by caleyboy

As I've said many times before. We are a small club in a 'big' league punching above our weight. We don't have the punters through the turnstiles to sustain high SPL wages and will always struggle to make ends meet.

the rumour has it we'll be 6 figure sum better off by the end of the season once a couple of contracts arent renewed.

A couple of league positions below where we were aiming for, poor cup performances, vastly increased medical bills, loan players kept on after January and more added to cover injuries....I was expecting loses to be far worse than they were!!!

I've not had the opportunity to look at the accounts yet, but I believe that despite the increased losses, the balance sheet is looking healthier and that's the most important thing. Not sure who did the article for the BBC, but they were either trying to sensationalise the story by reporting it the way they did, or they have a complete lack of understanding when it comes to reading a set of accounts and should not be putting pen to paper on topics which they clearly don't fully understand.

I agree with Caley D. I was expecting the loss to be at least half a million. not great news but managable.

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. (Philip Dick). At this time of the season this is actually the kind of reality check that is required. ICT are,were and always will struggle to meet ends meet. We are,were and will always be a selling club, a feeder to bigger clubs. But somehow we have always managed to avoid significant and crippling debts. That is money management at its best. Lets just pay homage that we aint facing the dilemnas faced by the Portsmouths of this era and never go on a Gretna / Livingston "Live the dream" journey. I would rather endure sleepless nights and nightmares as long as ICT lives on.

How do we progress financially this year ? Is that not the same equation as our progress on the football field ? Top six finish and two good cup runs and a smell at Europe next season. Then we start worrying about next season but produce players who may bring in valuable transfer fees. Am I being overly pessimistic ?

IHE, all accepted we are a selling club, or feeder club, having to seek out fees for developing players, whether its through our own youth, or saving and improving free signings. Problem with that is we keep signing one year deals with players, so they end up leaving for nowt. We need to get into this " with an option for an additional year or two years" frame of mind. Where they are released if they do not perform to expectations, but if they do and are sought after, we extent their contract and make cash out of it.

Then asking inflated fees, means you may get a fraction of the fee asked ( ie Victor Wanyama and the £25m, OMG how did Lennon keep a straight face with that one ), as with that valuation Andy Shinnie must be worth £20m, as he is scoring more in a less talented team overall

I've not had the opportunity to look at the accounts .

Well maybe you should take a look at them - before you start commenting on the manner in which they are being reported. Because if you had bothered to take a look at the Chairman's Annual Report you would have seen that it is the Chairman himself who raises and highlights the issue that if measures had not been taken to boost the squad beyond what was originally budgeted last season, then the financial situation might have been a whole lot worse in that the club could have been relegated.

The quotes on BBC online are directly from the Chairman's annual report - and these are also the quotes used on the back page of the PandJ (30.10.12.) which takes exactly the same line.

So if you have an objection to the manner in which the Chairman is presenting the club's losses in the public domain, maybe you should raise that directly with him.... once you get back from Damascus, like

Edited October 31, 201213 yr by Charles Bannerman

I've not had the opportunity to look at the accounts .

Well maybe you should take a look at them - before you start commenting on the manner in which they are being reported. Because if you had bothered to take a look at the Chairman's Annual Report you would have seen that it is the Chairman himself who raises and highlights the issue that if measures had not been taken to boost the squad beyond what was originally budgeted last season, then the financial situation might have been a whole lot worse in that the club could have been relegated.

The quotes on BBC online are directly from the Chairman's annual report - and these are also the quotes used on the back page of the PandJ (30.10.12.) which takes exactly the same line.

So if you have an objection to the manner in which the Chairman is presenting the club's losses in the public domain, maybe you should raise that directly with him.... once you get back from Damascus, like

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. (Philip Dick). At this time of the season this is actually the kind of reality check that is required. ICT are,were and always will struggle to meet ends meet. We are,were and will always be a selling club, a feeder to bigger clubs. But somehow we have always managed to avoid significant and crippling debts. That is money management at its best. Lets just pay homage that we aint facing the dilemnas faced by the Portsmouths of this era and never go on a Gretna / Livingston "Live the dream" journey. I would rather endure sleepless nights and nightmares as long as ICT lives on.

How do we progress financially this year ? Is that not the same equation as our progress on the football field ? Top six finish and two good cup runs and a smell at Europe next season. Then we start worrying about next season but produce players who may bring in valuable transfer fees. Am I being overly pessimistic ?

IHE, all accepted we are a selling club, or feeder club, having to seek out fees for developing players, whether its through our own youth, or saving and improving free signings. Problem with that is we keep signing one year deals with players, so they end up leaving for nowt. We need to get into this " with an option for an additional year or two years" frame of mind. Where they are released if they do not perform to expectations, but if they do and are sought after, we extent their contract and make cash out of it.

Then asking inflated fees, means you may get a fraction of the fee asked ( ie Victor Wanyama and the £25m, OMG how did Lennon keep a straight face with that one ), as with that valuation Andy Shinnie must be worth £20m, as he is scoring more in a less talented team overall

But surely the only way to sign players to attract them to the Far North on a pittance of a wage is to scour the "depths" and look to take on board players with "potential" - or even injuries - to provide them the opportunity of "selling" themselves on the SPL stage. There is then a distinct possibility that the likes of Warren, Draper and possibly OTJ may move on at the end of the season. The "trick" would be to look at extended contracts in mid season but then there are always agents to deal with. Have to agree though that some of our transfer fees received have been shocking.

I've not had the opportunity to look at the accounts .

Well maybe you should take a look at them - before you start commenting on the manner in which they are being reported. Because if you had bothered to take a look at the Chairman's Annual Report you would have seen that it is the Chairman himself who raises and highlights the issue that if measures had not been taken to boost the squad beyond what was originally budgeted last season, then the financial situation might have been a whole lot worse in that the club could have been relegated.

The quotes on BBC online are directly from the Chairman's annual report - and these are also the quotes used on the back page of the PandJ (30.10.12.) which takes exactly the same line.

So if you have an objection to the manner in which the Chairman is presenting the club's losses in the public domain, maybe you should raise that directly with him.... once you get back from Damascus, like

I have no issue with the Chairmans Report on the accounts (which I have read) as it clearly states that there's an improvement on the balance sheet....a small but vital detail that is totally overlooked in the BBC Article. Whether that was through ignorance or intent I have no idea....but equally irresponsible either way.

For the second time in two days I find myself agreeing with Caley D. Can't possibly last.

Do we get 50% of the Ibrox gate money?

After costs

And the absorbsion of 30,000 complimentary tickets

Think the comp ticket scam may come back to haunt them as I'm pretty sure they have to be declared and normal value attributed for when calculating the split of revenue....in other words, Rangers will still have to stump up half the normal cost to us.

According to match reports the attandance was 28,033. Just me, or did it look like close to 40,000 there last night?

I've not had the opportunity to look at the accounts .

Well maybe you should take a look at them - before you start commenting on the manner in which they are being reported. Because if you had bothered to take a look at the Chairman's Annual Report you would have seen that it is the Chairman himself who raises and highlights the issue that if measures had not been taken to boost the squad beyond what was originally budgeted last season, then the financial situation might have been a whole lot worse in that the club could have been relegated.

The quotes on BBC online are directly from the Chairman's annual report - and these are also the quotes used on the back page of the PandJ (30.10.12.) which takes exactly the same line.

So if you have an objection to the manner in which the Chairman is presenting the club's losses in the public domain, maybe you should raise that directly with him.... once you get back from Damascus, like

I have no issue with the Chairmans Report on the accounts (which I have read) as it clearly states that there's an improvement on the balance sheet....a small but vital detail that is totally overlooked in the BBC Article. Whether that was through ignorance or intent I have no idea....but equally irresponsible either way.

The only reason we have an improved Balance Sheet is because there was a further £500k shares issued. Can we expect this again this year?