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That's 10 without a win and 1 win in 14. Brewster had won 3 in 14 when he got sacked......

When do we start panicking?

NOW? 

Don't be fooled by the closeness of the final score. That was more comfortable for County than the scoreline would suggest.

We are so so disorganised it's untrue, no shape in defence or attack.  I wonder what influence Brian Rice has in all of this.  The downward spiral started the second Latapy was punted and he rocked up. We still have the bulk of the 3rd place and cup winning team and they haven't become terrible overnight.

We're now 4 points from safety having had a decent run of fixtures over the last few weeks.  Unless something changes drastically in the winter break we can start planning for the Championship. I've heard people say that it would be a good laugh in the Championship but it would be disastrous for the club.  We must stay up.

 

ETA: first time we've gone 10 league games without a win in our history.

Edited December 31, 20169 yr by Hiro
Addition of shocking stat

19 minutes ago, Hiro said:

Don't be fooled by the closeness of the final score. That was more comfortable for County than the scoreline would suggest.

We are so so disorganised it's untrue, no shape in defence or attack.  I wonder what influence Brian Rice has in all of this.  The downward spiral started the second Latapy was punted and he rocked up. We still have the bulk of the 3rd place and cup winning team and they haven't become terrible overnight.

We're now 4 points from safety having had a decent run of fixtures over the last few weeks.  Unless something changes drastically in the winter break we can start planning for the Championship. I've heard people say that it would be a good laugh in the Championship but it would be disastrous for the club.  We must stay up.

 

ETA: first time we've gone 10 league games without a win in our history.

Pretty much agree with all you've said, and, like you, I wonder if Foran could do with someone other than Brian Rice as his no 2, as Rice certainly didn't seem to inspire particularly inventive or adaptable football after he replaced Latapy, and we are certainly in need of an alternative to the way we are playing just now.

The bit in bold, though: it's true that we've retained the core of defence and midfield that won us the cup, but the forward line is completely different, and that makes a colossal difference; easily, potentially, the difference between top 6 and going down. I'd go as far as to say that think we have the poorest striking options, relative to our level, that we've had in my 20 years of watching the team. Also, I think there has been a fairly notable decline in the form of Gary Warren in particular, so although the defence might contain largely the same personnel as the cup-winning team, it's not quite the 'same' defence in terms of reliability.     

Personally I'd love nothing more than Foran to succeed, but I don't think he's got what it takes yet. Too little experience, I think the club should have looked for an experienced manager that wasn't going to have us in a relegation fight. Regardless if we stay up this season, with Foran I fear that for the next few seasons it's all we are going to be and that's in a relegation fight. For the last few seasons we've kept improving ourselves, whether it be cup runs or table finishes. The club was an established top six side, but it really is deteriorating by the week. Worst start to any season is pretty dire to hear. If a few other clubs weren't having such poor seasons then we'd be in alot bigger trouble than we are.

in my opinion, if the board are tempted to make a change then now is the time to do it. With the break, it's a great time to get someone in before we have a run of crucial games. Would that really be such a knee-jerk reaction? 

15 minutes ago, alternative maryhill said:

Pretty much agree with all you've said, and, like you, I wonder if Foran could do with someone other than Brian Rice as his no 2, as Rice certainly didn't seem to inspire particularly inventive or adaptable football after he replaced Latapy, and we are certainly in need of an alternative to the way we are playing just now.

The bit in bold, though: it's true that we've retained the core of defence and midfield that won us the cup, but the forward line is completely different, and that makes a colossal difference; easily, potentially, the difference between top 6 and going down. I'd go as far as to say that think we have the poorest striking options, relative to our level, that we've had in my 20 years of watching the team. Also, I think there has been a fairly notable decline in the form of Gary Warren in particular, so although the defence might contain largely the same personnel as the cup-winning team, it's not quite the 'same' defence in terms of reliability.     

Agree with your summary on our forward line, easily the poorest I've seen. Perversely however, scoring goals isn't our issue- we've scored more than everyone outwith the top 4 and only 3 less than Rangers.   Keeping them out is the problem and it's not solely the defences fault.   Warren is perhaps slowing up however he still has plenty of good attributes, we're just not giving enough protection to the back four from midfield.

Positives:

we didn't collapse after conceding the early goal - we got deservedly level whilst well on top.

the second goal came after our best bit of build-up play all day (which only came because King wandered infield into space) - and even then we only scored because their keeper made an error.

And that's about it.

Same old, same old for the most part.  Conceding soft goals because of bad organization and individual errors.  Doumbouya completely isolated whilst he was on the pitch (though Davies had him in his pocket anyway).  Zero penetration due to the lack of pace in attack - mostly just sideways passes until we lose it or someone hoofs it.  And panic stations at 2-1/3-1 down, where we start playing like 1980s Wimbledon, except without the charisma and the ability.

County had done their homework.  They were particularly keen for us to get Mckay on the ball, in the knowledge that he can't cross, whilst shutting down Tremarco on the other side.  Boyce drifted in off the flank into the space behind Tremarco and caused us all sorts of trouble.  In contrast we played exactly the same way we do every week, with no regard for the opposition's strengths or weaknesses.

That's ten league games without a win for the first time since...er, ever in fact.  It's the worst league run we've ever had in our entire history.

Foran's post-match interview was just crazy.  He heavily criticized the players both individually (he didn't name names, but made it quite clear he blamed Tansey for the first goal for not clearing at the near post and Meekings for the second for not showing Boyce wide) and collectively (no confidence, no fight, no grit, no energy).  Then he decreed that a few weeks off for the winter break would fix everything, along with three new players.  Firstly, he's damn lucky we have a winter break for the first time in years, and secondly, where does he think the money for three new players is coming from?  He insists we're still going to finish top six.  

County fans in contrast think we're "going down, going down".  I know which argument is evidence-based, and it's not our manager's.

18 minutes ago, Hiro said:

Agree with your summary on our forward line, easily the poorest I've seen. Perversely however, scoring goals isn't our issue- we've scored more than everyone outwith the top 4 and only 3 less than Rangers.   Keeping them out is the problem and it's not solely the defences fault.   Warren is perhaps slowing up however he still has plenty of good attributes, we're just not giving enough protection to the back four from midfield.

Definitely this. I thought that taking Vigurs out of the deeper-lying role where Foran was playing him for a long time would make a difference in this respect, and we did look more solid against Hamilton and especially against Rangers, but it doesn't seem to have worked today. I'd like to see Polworth Tansey and Draper starting in the middle, for the greater energy and adaptibility that they give - any one of the three could play in a more advanced role at different times in the game while the other two stay deep. I just don't think Vigurs gives us enough, regardless of where he's playing.

Regarding the goal-scoring figures, we need to remember that they are skewed by the Cafu-like exploits of Mr Tremarco... ;) 

Three wins in twenty games, no wins in the last ten, and three goals conceded in five of the last ten. I said at the start that the current squad should be good enough for a mid table finish and with an experienced manager I had no doubt that it would be but we don't have an experienced Manager, we don't even have a Manager who has served an apprenticeship as an assistant. I wanted things to work out for RF but it hasn't and is not going to improve. I defended JH's style of play and pointed to the fact that JH managed to pick up a steady stream of points even with a horrendous injury list. Look back to the number of first teamers missing after the double header with Astra plus the fact we had lost Shinnie and Watkins. I understand why the board parted with JH and I also understand why JH pushed as hard as he did to improve the squad, he wanted to kick on. Under JH we had a style of play whether you liked it or not, that has gone out of the window now, the team is directionless both defensively and offensively, I believe they are going out hoping to win whereas under JH I believe they went out expecting to win.Remember Tremarco's comment after the SC final that he was afraid of the manager when he got sent off? that says it all. Watkins called JH a madman, they all knew the plan and the consequences of not delivering it.

It's no one's fault really, the board took a gamble on RF, they wanted some stability which we haven't had since Patterson but it hasn't worked and they now need to make a decision.

In the interests of balance, does anyone think Foran is doing a good job and has got the managerial attributes to get us out of this freefall?

Big ask for someone to come in with absolutely no managerial experience . To me the fault lies with the board who never explored any other experienced options but went for the cheap and easy option. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

In the interests of balance, does anyone think Foran is doing a good job and has got the managerial attributes to get us out of this freefall?

It's hard to argue that he's doing a good job at the moment when the same tactical limitations seem to be on show every week, but it's far too early to know whether or not he has the managerial attributes to change that. A few weeks away from competitive games, a bit of a rethink, possibly a slight reshuffle in personnel (although we'll be pretty limited in what we can do in this respect, I guess) and maybe we'll see an upturn in results and performances after the break. Ultimately the board will make the decision about whether they think it's worth the sacrifice of paying him off in the hope that it will save the club from relegation, but personally I think it would be pretty unjust to profess belief in an untried manager and then write him off as a failure after six months in charge.       

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

In the interests of balance, does anyone think Foran is doing a good job and has got the managerial attributes to get us out of this freefall?

Buy cheap pay twice , the board took a crazy gamble in appointing the untried Foran and it looks like he's going to lead us to the Championship and God knows where we could end up after that .

 

Then cast your mind back to earlier days when fans were saying .." It's so refreshing now that  Richie's style of attacking play is so different from that of J Hughes."  What has happened to change these feelings I wonder? I've seen some great football on some of  the highlights so why is all lost in the minds of the moaners and groaners?

Truly, is it really ALL Mr. Foran's fault?

 Or are the players, perhaps,  not buying into his instructions because they are not taking him seriously or don't fear or respect him as much as they should  because they think he is still a rookie manager? Isn't this as much of a major change for them as it is for Richie Foran?  Going from Hughes to Foran is like going from the ridiculous to the ...?

Or is it forgotten that the team has suffered some major, devastating and team upsetting injuries this season which have thrown them right off  track? Which, in turn, has now sadly affected their confidence and the fluidity of the team? And the team has suffered some bad luck also, e.g.  penalties not given by refs when they should have been, etc., this season. So the team as a whole is probably down and disjointed at this point and not liking it any more than the fans.

Thus is it not the time to really get behind the team and be fair to Richie by at least allowing him one full season at the helm before calling for his head on a platter? Without the backing of the fans he's like the players brought in who don't get a chance to play and remain on the sidelines or on the bench etc., so never get the chance to develop and boost their confidence levels. So his head is going down ( post match interviews) and you can't blame him for that in my mind?  All of which seems to me to be counterproductive in terms of training the employees to be ready for the inevitable injuries and bad breaks that come with the territory and leads to the undermining of the team's solidarity and so on.

And who is to say that any other Manager would be able to make that much of a difference, better  than what we are  encountering in the present situation, than the man in charge right now? The Board is NOT going to sack Richie just because the team gets relegated so any chance of having him dumped before the end of the season is fantasy.  Financially alone  that would not be a wise decision and  we all did previously realise that he was not a fully experienced Manager so we had to expect the possibility that this might not be the most successful season ever? Do you think it is possible that the Management did not understand the possible negative consequences of the appointment as well? Of course they did  but I feel sure that they also did understand the possibility of future success with Richie once he DID have experience and that was reason enough  to award him a four year contract  because they knew that  Rome wasn't built in a day, funds were dangerously low in the club and he was committed to living and working  in Inverness over a long  term---not like previous Managers whose loyalties lay in self promotion, self advantage and self aggrandisement.

1 hour ago, alternative maryhill said:

It's hard to argue that he's doing a good job at the moment when the same tactical limitations seem to be on show every week, but it's far too early to know whether or not he has the managerial attributes to change that. 

Sensible comment, as ever, but it would give me more hope if we were able to cling on to a few of the standard attributes of decent managers:

• makes good signings
• gets the best out of the players
• team always looks well organised
• the players look really fit
• good tactician
• has a good plan B when things aren't going to plan
• makes good substitutions
• has the team playing attractive football
• team always hard to beat
• develops young players
• great team spirit is evident

How many of those qualities has Foran demonstrated?

19 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

Sensible comment, as ever, but it would give me more hope if we were able to cling on to a few of the standard attributes of decent managers:

• makes good signings
• gets the best out of the players
• team always looks well organised
• the players look really fit
• good tactician
• has a good plan B when things aren't going to plan
• makes good substitutions
• has the team playing attractive football
• team always hard to beat
• develops young players
• great team spirit is evident

How many of those qualities has Foran demonstrated?

Only one of forans signings has been good in my opinion and that is Brad Mackay and I'm lead to believe that was more good timing and luck with Billy King knowing Brad and putting in a quick and early word so not really forans doing. 

 

To lift the mood before the bells, I hereby predict that we will now go on a run of 27 days without a league defeat!

I am desperate for Richie Foran to do well but im afraid some of his decisions and the loyalty he is showing to certain players is mind blowing.

Owaim Fon Williams is costing us too many goals and is not the commanding figure he should be. Iain Vigurs offers nothing and does not deserve to start every week. His lack of quality and commitment is horrendous. Larnell Cole is ok going forward but defensively is not interested, he gives Brad no protection or help at all. We have to change things and go 442. Billy King, who was outstanding when he came on today, Ryan Esson if fit and Scott Boden should come in in my view. 

Also when Richie made the double change and took on Fisher and King why did he put Draper up front with Fisher. Why not leave Doumbaye or put Boden, two strikers, on instead. It made no sense at all. Richie is there to make big and brave decisions and at the moment he is not doing it. The sooner he does the better or we will be cut adrift at the bottom very soon.

Is it just me ?? I find these after match comments nauseatingly pathetic

Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager Richie Foran says he is "letting the supporters down" as his side languish at the bottom of the Premiership.

Caley Thistle fell to a 3-2 defeat away to Highland rivals Ross County, leaving them without a win in 10 matches.

"I'm letting supporters down, I'm letting the board down, I'm letting the chairman down at the moment," Foran told BBC Scotland.

"But, believe me, I feel it. That will change."

He added: "We'll get better, I'll get better, my team will get better in 2017 with a little bit of help, some players coming in."

"Today's probably the first time we looked a bit nervy, a bit low on confidence from our goalkeeper to our striker," said Foran. "All over the park, I thought we looked a bit low on confidence.

"When you're like that, you're also low on energy. I thought County had a wee bit more energy around the park than us, a bit more fight, a bit more grit, which is disappointing from our point of view.

This break is coming at the right time now. These lads need to get away, get their minds refreshed.

"For me starting in management in 2016, it's been a poor half of the season from my point of view, from me and also from the players. We need to get ourselves refreshed, come back ready to go again.

"We're only six points out of the top six, which is our aim. We believe we'll still get there. We need to come back better in 2017 than we were in 2016."

6 minutes ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Is it just me ?? I find these after match comments nauseatingly pathetic

Inverness Caledonian Thistle manager Richie Foran says he is "letting the supporters down" as his side languish at the bottom of the Premiership.

Caley Thistle fell to a 3-2 defeat away to Highland rivals Ross County, leaving them without a win in 10 matches.

"I'm letting supporters down, I'm letting the board down, I'm letting the chairman down at the moment," Foran told BBC Scotland.

"But, believe me, I feel it. That will change."

He added: "We'll get better, I'll get better, my team will get better in 2017 with a little bit of help, some players coming in."

"Today's probably the first time we looked a bit nervy, a bit low on confidence from our goalkeeper to our striker," said Foran. "All over the park, I thought we looked a bit low on confidence.

"When you're like that, you're also low on energy. I thought County had a wee bit more energy around the park than us, a bit more fight, a bit more grit, which is disappointing from our point of view.

This break is coming at the right time now. These lads need to get away, get their minds refreshed.

"For me starting in management in 2016, it's been a poor half of the season from my point of view, from me and also from the players. We need to get ourselves refreshed, come back ready to go again.

"We're only six points out of the top six, which is our aim. We believe we'll still get there. We need to come back better in 2017 than we were in 2016."

Tbh Id rather we forgot about top 6 for now and concentrate on safety!

59 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Tbh Id rather we forgot about top 6 for now and concentrate on safety!

Amen to that.

Sack the board. 

Happy new year

No complaints from me about that game yesterday (other than the performance of ICT obviously). County thoroughly deserved that win and probably should have been out of sight by half time. I felt they did to us what we had done to them on so many occasions in the past - sit in and hit on the counter. Interesting to see Boyce played almost like a right winger for most of the game. I've not often been impressed with Boyce in games between the sides in Dingwall but I thought he was excellent yesterday. A real menace and he took his goals well although I think he'd be chancing it to say his second was meant as anything other than a cross which seemed to go straight through Fon Williams. 

The first County goal was everything about ICT at the back this season in the space of a few seconds. Disorganised, chasing shadows and just simply all over the place. Tremarco grabbed a scarcely deserved equaliser before the slightly fortuitous second from Boyce. Third was a classic case of County 'wanting it more' and completely out muscling ICT to win the ball back and then take advantage of our non existent defending to wrap the game up. Whilst Fisher got a goal back after a good positive run by King who saw his effort spilled by Fox and tucked away by Fisher it made the game look at a lot closer than it was. 3 - 2 might look like a close game but it was a pretty straight forward win for the Staggies. They passed up other good chances to add to their lead whereas I can't really recall many clear cut opportunities for ICT to get back into the game. Really can't grumble with the result.

Big questions now for ICT. The team looks seriously short on confidence. With players like Tansey and Meekings reluctant to commit their futures to the club they could well be away before we pick up on league business towards the end of January. I still feel we are in desperate need of a Mckay or Storey type attacker. Someone with a bit of pace who can play off the shoulder of the defence. Right now we seem to start most games with a tall forward, playing with his back to goal trying to win countless lumps up the park with little or no support and instead of playing with 'proper' wingers to try and attack down the flanks and send in some crosses for the likes of Doumbouya to attack. Instead we play central midfielders there most of the time. Dropping Polworth yesterday was an odd one and the continuing presence of Vigurs in the starting XI continues to baffle. A lot of players are seriously under performing right now and Forans tactics seem somewhat limited with only one game plan seemingly evident most matches.

NareysToepoker on Twitter noted that this is the lowest points total accumulated by any ICT side after this many games in any division. That we have fewer points now than at the same stage of the relegation season of 08/09 is extremely concerning however the only saving grace is that we haven't become completely detached. Yet.