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Don't think there's an issue with people being moved on stalwarts or no providing those who replace them are as good and younger or better. This certainly wasn't the case after Munro was pushed out. Dave is a well liked, good, hardworking player who sees to fit Hughes' 'gud honest laddie' to a T. He seems to want to stay but yet he's unwanted dispite Hughes moaning about how hard it is to get players up here. Unless Dave is demanding a silly amount of money (which is unlikely as he's not been made any offer it seems) I can only assume it's a personal issue/dislike the manager has for the player. Sad state of affairs.

This decision has nothing to do with finances. Raven seems to be a good honest professional who has done an outstanding job for us and would continue to do so. There is a definite link between our average performance this season and Raven's absence. This decision is Hughes doing and could be a turning point in the fans relationship not only with him but the Club.

Think you have got it bang on. Maybe time for the Chairman to stick his head above the parapet and re-assure us with his vision for the future.

a couple of points to reality check our income 1. ICT runs at a loss without additional prize money from cups, transfers, league position etc so much of the increased revenue will have allowed for a modest profit at best. 2. ICT pays a low wage and typically has a pretty decent bonus payment for performance. This would eat into our cup and final league placing prize money. 3. Playing in the Europa League likely cost us money instead of making us money. I have no idea of the exact numbers recently, but the economics of a club like ICT are not as straightforward as saying every penny in is or can be a windfall for the manager. Those tasked with the stewardship of the club have done a pretty good job of managing our meagre finances year by year and it is to their credit that we have not faced more of the drama that saw us come close to going to the wall a few years after we were formed.

Having read the BBC article all I can say is that John Hughes hasn't got a clue. Nothing he says ever makes much sense anyway but in this case he is totally wrong. I can only hope that he realises the error of his ways and offers Raven a contract NOW.

These comments from Yogi give me no confidence in his management ability. We have 3 defenders, and 2 midfielders signed for next season (excluding Foran and Esson, who are unlikely first teamers IMO). So, if Hughes thinks that blowing the budget on a striker will solve all his problems, he has failed to grasp the concept that a football team has 11 players and a club needs a squad of about 20! Right back is a need at the moment and the incumbent is quality. Sign him up. Then see how the budget looks for the rest. This should all have been sorted months ago and he would have had fewer gaps to fill and a clearer idea of budget. Poor planning.

As we all know Hughes likes to emphases keeping these developments in house (most of the time), but here he's almost thinking out loud about Raven's future. Is it really as he says? I doubt it. What his comments say to me, is that this is a definite invitation to other clubs to him sign a pre-contract. He wants another club to swoop in and sign him so he can turn round and say 'Nothing to do with me, it's out of my control'. This is a pre-planned move by Yogi, no question about it and I for one think far less of him because of it.

A picture is worth a thousand words

This is yet another shambles from the club. Yogi said the day before or day after hearts game that Monday passed was the deadline for players to re-sign and now it's Friday...nothing's happened! Polworths deal was supposed to be competed last week and it hasn't. It's seems the club has been bullied into waiting for players as they've become desperate for them to resign. Then of course there is the story that the club are going to release David Raven...one of if not the best right back we've had to date and it's not like he's passed it. And he's one that wanted to sign, seems that the club officials have totally lost the plot this time.

I can't help but feel ashamed of the managements decision regarding a fantastic servant who has already expressed a desire to stay. I think the management owe us, the season ticket holders, an explanation at the very least as to why he hasn't been offered a new deal as he is a key and very popular figure at the club. Is there any way we, as fans, can show our displeasure? He has just favourited a tweet of mine saying I'll vent frustration at the management!

Agree. Hope the manager gets the fans view on this loud and clear on Sunday.

I don't think it's a pre-planned move, considering Raven himself was pleading for a contract earlier in the season. It will be JH's fault if one of our rivals snaps him up and the fans will be well aware of that. To me, his comments don't make much sense. If we don't give Raven a new deal, and we only look to sign attacking players for next season, that leaves absolutely no cover at the back. We would literally have 5 defenders. Meekings isn't a natural right back and his partnership with Warren was pivotal to our success last year, so what's the rationale in breaking up that partnership. Like others, I always try to be supportive of Yogi as if it wasn't for him we wouldn't have had such success last season, but his decision making and comments to the media over the last season has made that more and more difficult. It's probably not only the fans that will be fuming at this decision, but the players too. He better hope he has a positive start to next season, or the fans will be calling for his head in no time.

The Inverness Courier is running an online editorial questioning the logic in releasing Raven Ranting and Raven this decision baffles me

It's no secret that I am not and have never been enthusiastic about having JH as our manager but I still think that calling for his sacking is extreme especially as it's not going to happen. However, I do think he is under an obligation to state clearly and publicly why no contract offer has been made to someone who has voiced his desire to remain and who is regarded almost universally by fans as still one of our better players. He's quick enough to complain publically about scarce resources or not having funds to stop players he wants to retain moving elsewhere. Please just give us his reasoning for not wanting to retain the Rave...If there is a decent and rational explanation let's have it.

The Tokely and Munro situation was similar yet different, both were stalwarts and club legends who had given so much, but both were past their best and fading fast - it was never going to be an easy decision or time to move them on but had to be done. Raven however is still performing at the highest level and has consistently done so since arriving with probably another 2 years left at least.

What chance do we have of persuading our most important players to agree to long term contracts if the club treat loyalty like this? We have an experienced, loyal and IMO a very good SPL right back yet we don't want him? Unless JH has a great replacement on a PCA then this is madness. Raven has on numerous occasions said how much he loves it here and how its been the most enjoyable part of his career, he has said in the press that he would be willing to commit to the club for a long term contract but the best we can do is offer him a 1 year extension (last season) or not offer him a new contract at all this season. As mentioned before if there is a reason why he is being released then a little bit of PR from the club would go a long way. Seems that JH prefers the closed book method while leaving the fans to speculate whats going on

It's Tokely and Munro all over again. As renegade stated, why not keep him as an experienced back up if Yogi has doubts about him being a first team regular for next season. This will be the worst decision he has made by far if he doesn't sign Raven up. I can see him at Ross County or possibly even a Dundee next season, both looking more likely to finish above us next year already.

Bus to Partick Thistle leaving at 9.45 social club and 10.00 from the stadium. Usual prices apply - £20 and £10 for under 14s Pick up at Aviemore, stops at Broxden Services on the way down, Perth Bus Station on the way back. Text me on 07951 309504

...and yet he is happy to spend money paying wages to defenders far inferior to Raven both in terms of reliability and commitment.....

very apt

Oops - 'Stand by Me' that is!

Another pic of Raven in happier times! Looks like the last 'survivor' from this photo is also on-his-way. This photo is from just 12 months ago (almost to the day!)

Thanks for the memories Dave

I've always tried to give Yogi the benefit of the doubt, but there's no defence for this decision. It's identical to when Butcher froze out Munro. Even if Yogi doesn't want him to start, at least retain him as a squad player. An absolutely disgusting decision and I for one believe Hughes may have just signed his own death warrant.

And where does the journalist get his facts from if not from sources, be they official or unofficial, associated with the club?

True fans will always have a relationship with the club but I agree it could be a turning point or tipping point for the manager.

Strange how every player in that photo has left us

This is an interesting point. The £100k sale of Mckay, a fifth place finish, the League Cup Final, the Scottish Cup Final, a third place finish, the £500k sale of Christie and Europe and just a few months ago, the club were heralding the fact they'd made a profit and that's without including the latter three. Now we all know the club doesn't have a big wage budget anyway and as far as I'm aware, the club haven't paid any transfer fees (certainly not of a significant size anyway), nor is it as if there's anything massive that the club's invested in (building a new stadium for example) over the last year either. So where's the money gone? This is increasingly becoming a question no-one seems to know the answer to.

Hughes is not saying he definitely won't offer Raven a contract but clearly he is not going to if he is successful with his other signing priorities. Leaving aside his stated priority for quality up front, he still only has 3 defenders signed up so there is a need to do some work on that front. Devine is not signed up yet so presumably Hughes thinks Devine as a centre back and Meekings at RB is a better option than Meekings in the centre and Raven at RB. That's not my preference for sure. But even if you accept that, where's the cover? Is he planning on having all our defensive cover coming from the development squad? However you look at it, it makes no sense not to offer Raven a contract. Interestingly, he talks about finishing as high up the league to get that bit more money in. So just how tight are the club's finances after last year's success and the sale of Christie? There certainly seems to be something worrying about the financial position. Perhaps some contracts will be signed once survival is assured as players will not want to commit to the club and then find they are playing Championship football next year. Even more need, therefore to ensure we win on Sunday. Maybe then there can be something confirmed about David's future.

Iain MacArthur? Did he play right back or more centre half. Memory is getting foggy

Of course! It's the same with left-backs...Stuart Golabek, Richard Hastings and Graeme Shinnie are the only guys that spring to mind. Possibly Kenny Gillet - and Lionel! But, It shows that players have made these positions 'their own' at the club for a number of seasons - and we haven't been chopping and changing all the time. Continuity is particularly important in defence, which is all the more reason to feel disappointed that Raven is probably leaving!

How could you forget Thomas Piermayr?! And even Tom Parratt!

Apologies if someone has already suggested this one but are we good enough for a rousing rendition of the tune that Dave the Rave made his own when he covered it at the Scottish Cup celebrations in the Northern Meeting Park (can be seen again on Youtube). Anyone play the guitar?

Now that The Gellions are advertising their bus for Partick Thistle is it maybe time for CJT to do same so fans can make plans.? Sorry to use this thread it can be moved if inappropriate

Absolutely this.....

Unlike the message from public enemy - they do believe the hype. We seem to suffer from managers having some success or taking the club forward with plaudits from media and peers then they seem to go off the rails and become ego maniacs. Rather than continue their initial philosophy and humility which brought success they become so hungry for more they end up destroying what they built or inherited to promote themselves further.

Hopefully not another summer of awful trialists and vague comments in the press about the lack of money then...

I can see why St Johnstone are doing what they are doing. With rangers and potentially Hibs coming up next season (who will both have bigger budgets than most in the SPL) then there will be more competition for clubs with regards to top 6 finishes/European places and also potentially relegation spots. We all know how badly relegation can hit a club so I think what St Johnstone are doing is a little bit of forward thinking and potentially putting themselves in a stronger position to maintain their recent high league positions. At no point has any one said that means put their club into debt or take on borrowings they cant afford but presumably they have cash in the bank that the chairman has agreed to add to the player budget. I'm all for sustainability and operating within your means but likewise I think it can be a wise decision to speculate at times with regards to investing in the squad. Its a risk but a calculated risk and for me i'd rather see my team spend a little more on player budget (if they have the resources to do so) than sit with money in the bank waiting for a rainy day. I'd much rather a pro-active approach to a reactive one. Makes a lot of sense to me what St Johnstone are doing and very interesting to see a bit of transparency from the board/management with their clubs aspirations. It means the fans and the board know the direction they are going. Wish i could say the same for us at the moment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36100893 Interesting approach that St J are increasing their player budget due to the arrival of a newly promoted club, seeing them as potential rivals. Given all the discussions of how qualification for Europe losses money for Scottish clubs, then to spend more to try maintain position seems odd. As a team similar in fan base and level to us, is this the right approach and will others do the same to keep up and try avoid the relegation battle? We saw before that clubs spending money they don't have such as Hearts, Rangers and Dundee - this may not be to the same level yet but to increase expenditure based on promotion of one club seems speculative at best. If others follow this, then ICT will find recruitment and retention even harder, personally I'd rather see our club maintain the philosophy of spending what we have and living within our means even if we end up with a weakened squad and potentially relegation battles - so long as we have a team that tries, plays the best they can and we see signs of development for the future, this has to be better than speculative spending and the potential issues that inevitably come with this?

I agree. I sit in section E of the main stand and am probably the only person who will be remotely alive so Yogi will hear me!

Pity I can't make Saturday, I think I'll go on Sunday just for the craic.

I agree totally ... I hope the powers that be see the wrong in their ways and re think this horrendous decision. There is still time he is not away yet . Although David Raven is not from this area he shows a passion for ICT which is lacking in a few areas !!

Shame to lose such a well respected player, I hope he finds employment locally if that's what he's looking for and he had better sign my cup semi final ticket before he goes. Scooty might be looking for a guitarist ?

7 players signed up for next season including Esson & Foran what is going on. How can they expect to market Season tickets on the back of that. Something is seriously wrong at the club when you have only 5 first team regulars guaranteed to turn up for pre-season training which is probably less than 8 weeks away.

It is terrifying that, as yet none of the "six or seven" players that were allegedly offered contracts in the past couple of months - and have since been given ultimatums by Yogi - have signed. Polworth was allegedly close, but still not signed. Is there a fundamental issue here? Is Yogi not as popular to work with as he seems to think? Has the Chairman tightened the purse strings to the extent that it is strangling the club? We currently only have 7 players for next season FFS! Of those, one is the goalie coach, one is permanently crocked and another is quite likely to be off to Aberdeen! The U20s that we might have hoped to step up have been sent out on loan and no news on any of them being signed up either? ARMAGEDDON!

Raven is not just a solid, composed, experienced, reliable defender. He's also good going forward and involved in a high percentage of our goals in recent years. Abysmal decision if true. Hopefully Yogi is amenable to reconsider. Still time to rectify this.

Absolutely no chance of Yogi going to Celtic. Very unlikely that Stubbs will get a looking either with Hibs "Hibsing it" at the moment. JH will be staying put for the foreseeable future I would imagine.

I always liked Rankin when he was with us before who can ever forget this goal some really pi$$ed off rangers fans walked with us after the game and they couldn't believe we could beat them. Not so sure about him coming back now as we are laden with midfielders

Given that JH seems to find it almost impossible to recruit quality players to the club I find it surprising and disappointing that he is not prioritising the resigning of a very reliable and versatile defender who is already here and who has gone on record as wanting to commit his future to us. Ifind it even more disturbing and surprising that he is not starting at a time when we are leaking the soft sort of goals we seldom do when he is playing. I hope that rumours of a falling out with the manager are not true but if they are I know which one I would rather stay....

I said last season I was disappointed he was only given a 1 year deal, and now equally disappointed he seems to be unfancied and possibly on his way out. Don't see the logic behind it.