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Women's team and academy get absolutely nothing financial from the club other than a set of strips for the women's 1st team squad every now and then. If by youth you mean the ICT Community Trust then they are already a separate organisation and very well run in their own right. I'd also like to say that in my opinion both the above have done more for the ICT name locally and with the community in the last several years than the actual club.9 points
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It may not be your area if expertise but that doesn't mean you're not clever/smart. Fans shouldn't have to be versed in the business and legal aspects if running a football club but they should be able to trust that those doing so are. Most fans just want to go along to games and be entertained. They want to see the team battling and being successful. The fact fans are having to focus more on what's happening off the pitch than on it and having to consider piling in crazy amounts of money to try and save the club is not what being a fan should be about.6 points
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Oops don’t know what happened there Sorry moog, If going to one stand you mean the main stand I assume you are going to put the existing north stand fans in the non covered side, no thanks. Where we are in the north stand we get no rain and as long as I am clothed correctly for winter I am roastie toastie there. Couldn’t imagine sitting in the uncovered stand being battered by wind , rain and snow. especially when they remove my winter fuel payment I wouldn’t be able to thaw out at home. ( joking, give it to those who need it)4 points
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Reckon we should set up another GoFundMe - see if we can get enough donations to buy us a win. Or even a goal!3 points
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Good observation as there are two things going on here with a need to clear debts and one to reduce spending. Even if debt was cleared tomorrow we'd still have unsustainable costs.3 points
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Off topic, As a youngster back in the 70’s, at Telford street one Saturday watched the first half end 0-0 . Boring, yes even back then. you got in for nothing second half so decided to walk down to grant street. In the ground asked a guy what the score was, 4-3 to clach was the answer. No more goals finished that score. next day saw the Caley score, they won 4-3. FFS 14 goals and never saw one of them. those days at kingsmills there was an exodus at half time, people heading over to the heathmount or Corrie for a half time pint. ( I was too young) a mate told me a few years ago thistle v Brora. He went over at half time and the guy next to him ordered a pint in his full Brora kit, muddy boots. Didn’t bother him as he had a great 2nd half. Won’t mention his name. with the shenanigans going on at clach park at half time, a drunk trying to beat a greyhound (may have been a whippet) getting a halfway start, ( he only got to the 18 yd box when the dog passed him), a streaker running the length of the pitch in wellies with old George Rodgers on the tannoy saying “we know who you are” the glory days of football in Inverness. if only they could bring that back today as half time entertainment.3 points
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not really sure the point of the Monday mtg is to go over old ground and seek justifications - its about moving forwards and the strategy to survive. Not dismissing the validity of a deep dive across the finances & decisions but it'll just bog down in mud slinging and deflection of responsibility all while distracting from the bigger priority. I did hear those words on Sat from Robbo on the radio, which is hugely ironic considering his contract and fact even now he is (allegedly) chasing damages. He's doing well with his Radio Scotland clique to present himself as a 'good guy' in all this with complete deniability of what was happening at the club. As DoF if the players were not good enough for the money invested he had a significant role in who was recruited and also visibility of what remuneration. Shame nobody in the media on a Sat afternoon has the balls to confront him or Dodds (EBT Billy) and call bullshit on their takes - both complicit yet reputations fully in tact3 points
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Administration soon after October 16th now looks inevitable following what I thought was a very good meeting, packed with around 200 attendees. It was fairly clear that the Board and Alan Savage pretty strongly “prefer” Administration as the lesser of two evils, the other being Option Micawber - soldiering on and “waiting for something to turn up”. It was equally clear that much of the reason for holding the meeting was to test the temperature of the water as regards Administration and a show of hands between Admin and Micawber was roughly evenly divided. Alan Savage said that he would meet the cost of administration - which he also expects to remove a vast pile of debt. There seemed to be a stoical acceptance that the resulting 15 point penalty might very well result in League Two football next season. Anger directed at Gardiner was palpable, with the astonishingly inept kit deal leading the charge - followed very closely by many of the other sh!tshows that plagued the five year infliction of this individual on the club. It’s clear that the crowdfunder has only minimal chance of even getting close to its £200K target, but that already seems to be receding into the background. There’s probably more I could write but the video will tell it all.2 points
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Part time only works if there is a talent pool locally or you accept that they dont train with you during the week and at best travel only for the games. Before anyone makes the argument 'what about all the HL players' - while there may be a few capable of stepping up many arent and the quality IMO is much lower than it was when Caley were rising through the leagues. Logistically we will struggle - teams closer to larger centres such as Aberdeenshire or the Central belt can probably consider P/T knowing that they are within 50 miles (1 hour travel) of talent - we are not generally.2 points
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You haven't missed anything. The deadline date appeared in the 2nd October communication from Panos Thomas, which says "Unless the Appeal can raise £200k immediately, and certainly by Wednesday, 16th October, then Administration is inevitable, because the Club would be insolvent." The HMG definition of "insolvent": "A company is insolvent when it can’t pay its debts. This could mean either: it can’t pay bills when they become due it has more liabilities than assets on its balance sheet" My guess is that there is some payment due by the 16th, and if we don't make it, then we become insolvent in accordance with the first HMG bullet point. It may be that the payment is £200K, or it may be more that that, with the club needing a further £200K to pay the total amount. I have no idea what the payment is actually for. I hope there will be honesty and clarity tonight!2 points
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I might have missed it somewhere in all these topics. Why was the deadline day set as 16th October? Why was the specific price of £200k put down as the figure to save us. Is that the price to pay for the Administrators? Are we paying off Gardiner?2 points
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I didn't criticise anyone but you have to admit that it's a bit mad that we've gone through all this in the last couple of months only to end up right back where we were in the approach to saving the club. We were hoping for a hail mary then and we're pursuing the same hail mary now.2 points
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To summarise. Ross Morrison and Scot Gardiner got us into this position by gambling the clubs existence on grand schemes including the battery farm and Seventy7 ventures while begging and borrowing from everywhere. Alan Savage came in and has been highly critical of these things but now seems to be asking fans to give money to buy some time in the hope that something comes to the rescue from the battery farm or Seventy7 ventures? If it wasn't my club it would be laughable.2 points
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If people want to donate to the crowd funder then good for them. I don't see what it is actually going to achieve. Will we have one every month? At least with Hearts Foundation donations the people donating are part of the ownership of the club. I haven't read all this thread, or all of the other discussion, but as far as I can tell, the club is screwed. We owe millions to previous board members who, despite the update a month ago from Alan Savage, haven't agreed to take it on the chin because they can't afford to. The club needs to limp on until the Scottish Government offer an appeal on the battery farm, if that gets the green light then the money can go to pay off the creditors and we can start with a clean slate. If it doesn't then the club goes into admin, potentially (likely) liquidation. Even if we don't we could get demoted, we could lose our license etc. Genuinely the worse run club in Scottish football since 2015. Appalling.2 points
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Anyone expecting the former board, directors, CEO or even DoF & manager(s) to come out and take ownership of this situation is wasting energy. Unfortunately those most successful in business and even football management are narcissists and will never take accountability only deflect blame everywhere else - we had a club full of them.2 points
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Feels like the meeting was little more than an exercise to gauge fan feeling on administration while trying to get/keep people on side by rallying everyone behind anger towards Gardiner. There's nothing in reports that we didn't already know or suspect and no detail on what we're spending £260k a month on. That should have been the first question answered.1 point
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Not offering Harper a contract and missing out on some dosh for him was another masterstroke.1 point
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Can someone post up the link to the meeting for all the fans who they were unable to accommodate or could not attend?1 point
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Surely we should revert to part time asap to alleviate the cash flow at present also fans should be informed how much the club is throwing away on accommodation each month.1 point
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This quote from Alan Savage in the courier. "The key is we can’t look back, the only solution is looking forward. That is what the meeting wants to be about. It is no good hanging this board, as they weren’t the people who have had any part in what has happened." https://archive.ph/CsCsw Also mention of international interest in investing but we've been hearing that for a while now. We don't need tyre kickers.1 point
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Play better football, score some goals, provide some entertainment therefore get more bums on seats - that on Dunc and the players IMO1 point
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The same time as we would when the league pull that stunt in reverse !!!1 point
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How do we make every matchday a positive contribution to budget. By going to a single stand how much money does it save on security lighting water etc. Can we make league 1 stewarding volunteer rather than purchased. Can we pull kickoff forward for 3 months to reduce lighting costs each game in winter. How much does it save to play at 1200.? Can we make youth and womens teams charitable organisations and remove full linkage to ict. If we can't make matchdays financially positive no point in putting off administration.1 point
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Not sure its that clear cut. There is an agreement which I'm not sure is legally binding (contractual) that the battery farm money if it comes through would go back into the club from those directors (who appear to be creditors) HOWEVER they have the controlling interest already in the BF so technically could pocket that cash AND still call in the club debts - not very ethical but possible. Additionally given the various figures and messages banded about even if e get the circa £3m nowhere is anyone categorically saying it wipes out all debts and we start again. It may make inroads and lessen the burdened meaning with various deals & debt restructuring we may get to a sustainable level (zero or profit) but not guarantees (unless I missed that in which case its more positive than I'm aware) Right now we are asked to throw money at something in the hope of a positive outcome to a decision outwith the clubs control. Straws (paper ones at that) and grasping spring to mind. Definitely one thats easier for the 'cup half full' gang to get behind.1 point
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Savage has done what he said he would do - lift up the drain covers to discover exactly how bad the situation is. At 74 years old, he may not have the desire or the energy to actually run the club for any length of time - and he may also have higher priorities for his money. From what I've seen, I don't think that he can be criticised. It's not Savage who is asking fans for money. The need for the £200K was identified by his work, but the actual plea came in the communication from Panos Thomas on 2nd October. (And, of course, Thomas promptly resigned on the very next day.) That note also suggests that Savage's work is done - "Whilst Alan Savage’s temporary financial lifeline has undoubtedly saved the club from insolvency in the last few months, now that he has reported in depth to the Board, it would be unrealistic to expect that lifeline to continue." One can only hope for more clarity at the meeting tonight.1 point
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I agree that all opinions and potential solutions should be listened to, but the reality is that a large meeting is not the best way to do it. Meetings are time limited. If, for the sake of argument, a meeting was held outside in the main stand with around 500 people present, you would end up with less questions being asked then if it was inside as planned. There would be time wasted with people running round trying to get mics to people who want to ask questions and the usual issues of people not hearing things and asking for things to be repeated. Mechanisms are in place so that all opinions and ideas can be listened to. The club has given a contact email for money saving ideas and the Supporters Trust is collating questions. This will allow questions to be screened so that the most relevant issues are raised at the meeting and that others are addressed ASAP with the answers made public. Individuals are also free to post their questions and ideas on whatever social media platforms they subscribe to. Having said that, I believe public meetings have a real value too. Directors are seen to be standing up and directly responding to the club's supporters and being accountable. It gives an opportunity for more detailed explanation on a handful of issues and for some comeback on what they say, but with the best will in the world, there simply won't be time to properly answer all the questions people might have. I would have liked to have gone to the meeting but I have a prior commitment. I've submitted some questions to the Supporters Trust and am happy that they will find their way to the club.1 point
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Not personal abuse merely an observation so calm down girls. My take is we should just accept administration which is inevitable liquidation may well follow. If I’m totally honest I actually applaud Bannerman for not contributing to the go fund me account no one in their right mind would plough money into the club at the moment if the debt figures being flouted are correct. Sobering thought but that same money could fall into the hands of Gardiner or Ferguson or for any else that is owed money it’s certainly not going to save the club. The Inverness business community won’t touch us with a barge pole at present and a large swathe of the city population don’t want anything to do with us. Start again and regroup regardless at what level that is with a possibility of a rebranding to Inverness United/City or simply InvernessFc. The ICT brand is damaged beyond all repair whether we like it or not. The Go fund me debacle should have been set up for funds after administration so the new club in whatever form had something to build on. Dougal1 point
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We really can’t assume that. Mark Ridgers has offered his signed cup final gloves to help raise funds, Ryan Christie has been suggested to be the £20k donor, and some of the anonymous donors may well be players, former players or others associated with the club who understandably don’t want their names to be shown on the list we can see.1 point
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Thanks for the helpful response. The key thing here is that the vast majority of the debt is owed to 3 men who, until very recently, were Directors of the club and who, we have always been told, have been fans of the club since it was founded. The club has little in the way of cash or assets, so if the club does go into administration, there is no way they are going to get their money back except in the very unlikely event of a buyer coming in who is prepared to pay off the loans. If we get liquidated then they get nothing. On the face of it, they should accept that reality and, in the interests of the club they claim to support, write off the loans and free up the club from that debt Where it gets interesting is the assets they have control of. The three of them own the shares in ICT Battery Storage Ltd with Morrison and Cameron being the Directors. That would suggest that potential proceeds from the BESS are protected from the administrator or a 3rd party buyer and could be fed back into the club at the discretion of the 3 of them at some point in the future. However, the Companies House records list the Club as a "person with significant control" with the right to remove or appoint directors, to have 75%+ voting right and to have 75%+ of shares. So if we go into administration, I wonder if the administrators would have the power to take back control and effectively include the Battery company as an asset of the club? Morrison and Munro are also the sole Directors of Inverness Caledonian Thistle Properties Ltd. This owns the leases for the ground around the stadium. There is no club control noted for this and therefore this land is presumably completely outwith the reach of the administrators. In addition, Morrison holds a charge against the Club at Companies House, which involves "Floating charge over all its property, undertaking, assets (including uncalled capital) and rights owned now or in the future." There is also a 2nd charge involving Munro as well. So, what are the implications of this? If administration looms, does this mean Morrison can say he wants his loan repaid now, and when the club says it can't pay, he enforces the charge and all the assets of the club pass to him? He and his 2 colleagues then write off the loans, pay off Gardiner and the club is debt free but Morrison, Cameron and Munro own everything between them. It seems to me that Morrison has the power both to completely asset strip the club for his own future profit or to protect the club from the administrators and the assets being sold on the cheap to a third party. If the intention of Morrison, Munro and Cameron is to protect the club from the administrators, then surely the time to write off all or most of the debt is now! If most of the debt was cleared, then the focus of the club going forward could concentrate on the steps required to balance the books and we would be a far more attractive proposition for any potential credible buyer. This is all speculation on my part, but I do think it is important that we can get an expert opinion of how the complications of Morrison's Charges and the two related companies impact on the Club's current situation and on the situation should we go into administration. Clarity would help people make a decision on whether they want to contribute to crowdfunding, and if so, how much they want to contribute.1 point
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For the current club management to say they are unaware of any money changing hands would suggest that no such transactions ever reached the official accounts. If they had, Mr Savage's forensic audit would surely have revealed them. If Carlisle believes that money did change hands, then where is it?0 points
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Realistically, is it now time to look at transferring our loyalties elsewhere? Easy enough for me - many years ago if Caley were playing away (from Telford Street) I was quite happy to head down to Grant Street and lend my support to Clach, a team for which I still have a soft spot. With the possible demise of our team, the additional revenue from a thousand odd displaced (and disillusioned) ICT fans could help make Clach a viable contender for the Highland League title and then the Scottish League playoffs, just in time to move operations to the vacant Tulloch stadium. A lick of white paint and we're ready to storm up the leagues again!!0 points
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