Now initially I was evidently biased and thought that it was a stonewall penalty and a sending off - Having seen the replays I stick by that although it may have been just outside the box. Some of my mates thought that Draper was very clever and played for it. If you look at the telly different angles suggest different perspectives. ME I now think that he did cleverly play for it - but SO WHAT ?. The referee should have booked him if it was a dive. ???

He is our top scorer and in his first season scored two goals against Celtic at home. If this was an English game, the referee would certainlt have booked or sent off Sviachenko, and then awarded a free kick on the edge of the box. 

 Curiously enough, Chris Sutton saw it as a clear and deliberate foul by Sviachenko. Draper was not acting!!!!!!!!!!! He was brought down. 

That said, I think Celtic deserved a point today but the Referee did not get quite a few decisions right.

 

From TV at lots of angles, and considering the rule changes, it was a penalty. If a penalty was given it would be a yellow and not red. If deemed outside the box its red. In my opinion Draper was slightly ahead and had the right to cut across the Celtic guy. After all that's where the ball was. According to Howard Webb its a penalty because although incident starts outside the box it continues in.

Certainly looked a foul to me. Draper looked in control of the ball, and although he moved towards the defender, it was to shield the ball. 

Started outside the box, but it sounds like the rules allow a penalty to be given in those circumstances.

Finally, the new rules allow a yellow card if the foul was from a genuine attempt to play the ball. That was simply a barge with no attempt to play the ball, and so a red card would not have been unreasonable.

I am quite surprised that we didn't get these decisions against Celtic.

 

Drapes should have stuck the ball in the back of the net before anyone could get anywhere near him.  That would have stopped any argument.

He should have had a penalty and the defender sent off there is no debate

Only a Celtic Supporter would argue the case or even attempt to create doubt

Another shocking game changing decision given in favour of the old firm

Dougal

He definitely could have avoided any ambiguity by taking the shot before moving right into the path of the celtic defence, it was just getting too late and if he hadn't been brought down I think he may have lost his shooting chance. A big opportunity but perhaps somewhat over thought in the end 

Does anyone seriously believe that it would not have been given at the other end ?

53 minutes ago, Kingsmills said:

Does anyone seriously believe that it would not have been given at the other end ?

I don't think it would have made any difference which end Draper had been 

Was he fouled? Yes.

Did he want to be fouled? Yes.

We've never had a player so adept at drawing fouls. Barry Wilson was good at it but used a bit of "simulation" here and there. Draper isn't that kind of player.

Pat Nevin suggesting Draper throws his leg out is a bit extreme!. Since when was shielding the ball from an opponent 'looking for a foul'. The Celtic defenders runs through Draper without getting near the ball - definite foul and if the ref is unsure whether it was in / outside the box then the assistant was in the ideal position to 'assist'.

Anywhere else on the pitch and we get a free kick, similar to the one Celtic got a few minutes later.

The referee was terrible today and it was surprising to see a more experienced ref as the fourth official.

Great point as we could have lost by 4 or 5, lets hope we follow it up with 3 points against Dundee

To add insult to injury, Craig Thompson told Brian Rice that if he went to look at TV evidence he would be sent to the stands. 

9 hours ago, dave26 said:

Pat Nevin suggesting Draper throws his leg out is a bit extreme!. Since when was shielding the ball from an opponent 'looking for a foul'. The Celtic defenders runs through Draper without getting near the ball - definite foul and if the ref is unsure whether it was in / outside the box then the assistant was in the ideal position to 'assist'.

If the player is running with the ball and it moves to the right then they will move right to keep it under control - the ball was still under Drapers control, I think if this was the other way round of 2 teams not involving any of the OF then this would not be questioned. If the 2 StJ incidents were by Pat Nevin deemed a foul then the Draper one also has to be, its exactly the same.

Pat Nevin like Willie Miller and some others at the BBC are cretins who have been out of the game too long and hark back to what was acceptable in the past. The BBC need guys like Thommo & Stewart as pundits who are relevant to the modern game, not OF biased and will speak their mind on incidents.

It was too big a decision for a ref without a spine - outside = free kick & red card, inside = yellow & penalty - he wasn't brave enough to put Celtic down to 10 or issue a penalty against them. It should make us realise how 'lucky' we were in the semi final a few years back. Oh and if it was a dive then Draper should have got a yellow!!!

 

 

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by bdu98196

Pages 86 and 87 of the FIFA Laws of the Game cover this. If the foul on Draper had been given and it ended before they went into the penalty area the decision would be a free kick and a red card for denying a clear goal scoring opportunity.

However, the foul here carried on into the penalty area which means that a penalty could / should have been given. Ignore this "It's where the foul started chat" you might hear from some quarters - if a foul starts outside the penalty area and continues into the penalty area it's given as a penalty.

Posters above are correct to say that in this particular instance the result would be a penalty and a yellow card for the Celtic player but bear in mind the new rules still allow for penalties and red cards to be given depending on the foul being committed such as deliberate handball to deny a clear goal scoring opportunity, violent conduct etc.

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by RiG

There's no question of a dive here - there was a tangle of legs, which tripped Draper, so not a booking for simulation. To my mind, it is trherefore a foul and it looked like the contact continued into the box, so a penalty and yellow card is my verdict. If Drapes deliberately induced the foul, he has an incredible talent - to be able to run at full tilt, control a football and "throw his right leg out" at just the right moment to collide with the defender - without looking to see where he was - is magical!

Edited September 19, 20169 yr by PerfICT

No Question, it was a foul, a penalty and not given. Sitting in F section main stand and could not have had a much better view other than being on the field in the box.

Yes I was amongst the sweetie rustlers and we were making as much noise if not more than the whole North stand and no it wasn't the noise of the wrapping papers D D before you say that.

The Highlights and the pundirt reports biased beyond belief. I agree bdu, bbc do need a clear out there and replacements who give neutral and honest appraisals.

King did some terrific running pulling Celtic defence apart , not shown. free kick only just saved by Keeper who almost took it over the line as it knocked him back over the line, whether the whole ball was over or not is another debateable point. Dumbauya, spelling excused please, curtailing Celtics efforts to get the ball forward the way they wanted to by his constant and energy filled harrying and running ( I don't know who IHE was watching because this man is and was good ) He did run out of steam in the second half but Richie was quick  and made the substitution at exactly the right time.

There was a world class keeper playing in that match who deserves all the accolades he gets, our MOM absolutely brilliant 

We did give Celtic too much of the ball in the second half and we did not apply the same break them up tactics we showed in the first half but all in all the lads did a great job.

A great Team effort and speaking of Teams money for money we were as good if not better than the rich boys. We fully deserved the draw despite their managers comments and those of the PUNDIRTS a spelling error that I will not change in this instance.

How I hope I can get back to Tulloch stadium next Saturday to watch the Dundee game. Don't miss it lads if at all possible ......This Team is well worth the money and deserve our support.

 

Having watched the incident dozens of times I think Draper was on his way down before there was any contact, having said that if it had been at the other end they would have undoubtedly been given it . Could Drapers reputation for diving gone against him here ?

I would actually consider giving Draper the centre forward role with somebody with pace beside him.

Surely what matters here is the ball. Heading for goal, Draper is in front of the defender and attempting to keep possession of the ball. The defender comes across him from behind and also grabs Draper by the upper arm with his left hand. That has to be an infringement, but whether it was a penalty or a free kick marginally outside the box is a very tight and difficult call. I'm not sure on that one, but I do have to wonder if the referee, right in front of a South Stand full of baying Celtic fans, may have bottled it.

And if one green bottle should accidentally fall.... well that's ALWAYS a penalty to Celtic!

The Celtic view suggests they play to different laws:

Celtic's assistant manager Davies says after seeing replays the decision to wave play on was the right one.

"Obviously it's not a penalty," he said the day after the game. "I think the guy hasn't had enough speed to get away from him so I don't [even] think it's a foul.

"I think if the guy has got speed then he goes across and probably scores a goal but I think the player is waiting for the contact, he's trying to be cute and I think the referee had a very good game. He made a very good decision."

So there you have. Slow players who are kicked or held by opponents cannot be fouled. Misjudged or ill timed tackles on slow or cute players are legitimate. Patronising and clearly supporting his own player! I wonder what the Celtic view was about some of the singing? That appears to have been over looked.

 

15 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

The Celtic view suggests they play to different laws:

Celtic's assistant manager Davies says after seeing replays the decision to wave play on was the right one.

"Obviously it's not a penalty," he said the day after the game. "I think the guy hasn't had enough speed to get away from him so I don't [even] think it's a foul.

"I think if the guy has got speed then he goes across and probably scores a goal but I think the player is waiting for the contact, he's trying to be cute and I think the referee had a very good game. He made a very good decision."

So there you have. Slow players who are kicked or held by opponents cannot be fouled. Misjudged or ill timed tackles on slow or cute players are legitimate. Patronising and clearly supporting his own player! I wonder what the Celtic view was about some of the singing? That appears to have been over looked.

 

Has the SPFL compliance officer go anything to say on this matter? or has he got green tinted specs as well!

38 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

"I think if the guy has got speed then he goes across and probably scores a goal but I think the player is waiting for the contact, he's trying to be cute and I think the referee had a very good game. He made a very good decision."

Surely if the player is waiting for contact and the opposing player never got the ball its a foul, if he went down without contact its simulation. In either case how is that a good decision surely its a foul or a yellow for simulation - meaning the ref got either wrong?

41 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

The Celtic view suggests they play to different laws:

Celtic's assistant manager Davies says after seeing replays the decision to wave play on was the right one.

"Obviously it's not a penalty," he said the day after the game. "I think the guy hasn't had enough speed to get away from him so I don't [even] think it's a foul.

"I think if the guy has got speed then he goes across and probably scores a goal but I think the player is waiting for the contact, he's trying to be cute and I think the referee had a very good game. He made a very good decision."

So there you have. Slow players who are kicked or held by opponents cannot be fouled. Misjudged or ill timed tackles on slow or cute players are legitimate. Patronising and clearly supporting his own player! I wonder what the Celtic view was about some of the singing? That appears to have been over looked.

 

If I was on the Celtic staff, I'd think that the referee had a good game too. 

If Draper was that slow, couldn't Sviatchenko just have run round him rather than barging him over?

And the trip on King in the box has gone completely unnoticed too!

No doubt Celtic will write to the SFA to find out why Sviatchenko wasn't penalised and a penalty given to ICT.

Bughtmaster why someone ever gave you a red dot for your post I have no idea. Bias perhaps?  But I thought your post  was spot-on and no mistake --  and so I gave you a green dot for accuracy and unbiased reporting that basically mirrored my view of the various video reports shown.

As Iseen it it,  the contact of the foul deffo occurred outside the box. But I was unaware that if he was plunged forward as a result,, and ended up  on his nose in the box, then it is a penalty?  That seems to be little more than hilarious because in this instance he was fouled outside the penalty box so how far back up the field does one have to be when fouled to NOT make it a penalty? If the point of the incident geographically is not the  deciding factor where do we go from here...?

Take a look at @McBookie's Tweet:

Our League Cup conquerors, the mighty Wasps, were the victims of a dodgy ref decision tonight against Celtic. Imagine if the Alloa keeper had done this. Refs subconsciously or otherwise seem to err towards favouring OF probably for fear of the post-match scrutiny by the media/Wegie hordes on any big decision against OF.